5 ms·

Certainly they would have less grounds for firing him, but there would likely be a court case challenge if they chose to do so.

solidsnack9000 7y ago
But do you feel free speech is genuinely under attack in the one case, and genuinely not in another? Does a person or institution have to be literally owned lock, stock and barrel by the public to act in a public capacity?
- widowlark 7y ago
  Yes - The first amendment is as follows: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." In that vein, I would see the government limiting the ability for someone to speak out against anything as a violation of their Free Speech/First Amendment rights.
  - solidsnack9000 7y ago
    As written, this Amendment applies only to Congress, but it seems you reasonably infer that if the right of free speech is a limitation on Congress it should apply to state and local governments as well. Why wouldn’t it apply to other institutions operating in a public capacity, or operating with a public charter?
    - projektfu 7y ago
      It has been "incorporated" to cover state and local laws by supreme court decisions, and that has not happened with places that are merely public spaces, and, in fact, the opposite has occurred. For example, you can be removed from a shopping mall if you refuse to leave when asked, and you were asked to leave because you were wearing a shirt that politely expressed a political opinion that either security or the management disagreed with. Unfortunately that is the constitution we currently have in the US.
      - solidsnack9000 7y ago
        Not sure why you say "Unfortunately that is the constitution we currently have in the US." after describing what is more a matter of how well we are living up to it. A university is not a merely public place, but rather one which enjoys a charter from the state -- and numerous benefits as far as funding, taxation, access to information and research opportunities -- as an educational institution.
        projektfu 7y ago
        I think markets on private land like malls should have many of the same freedoms we enjoy in public spaces. Of course I think universities should as well. It’s unfortunate that in the second half of the 20th century we put so much of our public life on private property.
  - SkyBelow 7y ago
    But the question isn't if part of the First Amendment is under attack, so why bring it up?

solidsnack9000 7y ago

But do you feel free speech is genuinely under attack in the one case, and genuinely not in another? Does a person or institution have to be literally owned lock, stock and barrel by the public to act in a public capacity?

widowlark 7y ago
Yes - The first amendment is as follows: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." In that vein, I would see the government limiting the ability for someone to speak out against anything as a violation of their Free Speech/First Amendment rights.
- solidsnack9000 7y ago
  As written, this Amendment applies only to Congress, but it seems you reasonably infer that if the right of free speech is a limitation on Congress it should apply to state and local governments as well. Why wouldn’t it apply to other institutions operating in a public capacity, or operating with a public charter?
  - projektfu 7y ago
    It has been "incorporated" to cover state and local laws by supreme court decisions, and that has not happened with places that are merely public spaces, and, in fact, the opposite has occurred. For example, you can be removed from a shopping mall if you refuse to leave when asked, and you were asked to leave because you were wearing a shirt that politely expressed a political opinion that either security or the management disagreed with. Unfortunately that is the constitution we currently have in the US.
    - solidsnack9000 7y ago
      Not sure why you say "Unfortunately that is the constitution we currently have in the US." after describing what is more a matter of how well we are living up to it. A university is not a merely public place, but rather one which enjoys a charter from the state -- and numerous benefits as far as funding, taxation, access to information and research opportunities -- as an educational institution.
      - projektfu 7y ago
        I think markets on private land like malls should have many of the same freedoms we enjoy in public spaces. Of course I think universities should as well. It’s unfortunate that in the second half of the 20th century we put so much of our public life on private property.
- SkyBelow 7y ago
  But the question isn't if part of the First Amendment is under attack, so why bring it up?