6 ms·

So geography, external influence (e.g. colonialism) and climate (e.g. drought, as mentioned in the article) have nothing to do it with? Do you think Europeans

So geography, external influence (e.g. colonialism) and climate (e.g. drought, as mentioned in the article) have nothing to do it with? Do you think Europeans have superior genes to Africans?

bluetomcat 7y ago
The environment is surely in the equation, but you can hardly change the climate or the geography. You can try to improve the socio-economic matters, but any sensible improvement of the genes may be seen in hundreds of years, and they will still be at a disadvantage because of the unfavourable climate.
- renjimen 7y ago
  It's interesting because excess stress can actually damage your DNA. How much so and how much it affects your children, I don't know. I suspect if you took an average European child and plonked them in a deprived part of Chad, they would fare about as well in life as your average Chadian child. And vice versa for a Chadian child in Europe. > you can hardly change the climate or the geography You can introduce new technologies to make the most of what they have. For example better water management and improved crop strains.
  - bluetomcat 7y ago
    A Chadian child in Europe will enjoy a vastly better environment and healthcare which would prevent many potential diseases it would develop in Chad, but it would still be susceptible to diseases uncommon for Europeans and will have a vastly lower life expectancy. Under the severe conditions in Chad, a European child would still overtake Chadian children in its overall development, but would be susceptible to many local diseases. If the child manages to survive these diseases, it will enjoy a considerably longer and healthier life in that same environment.
    - renjimen 7y ago
      Do you have anything to back up these claims? They seem outlandish to me. For example, there are plenty of African migrants in Europe. I've never heard anything about a vastly reduced life expectancy. There are some small dietary problems they might have if they switched to local food and drink, but I would have thought that their immune system would adjust over time.
- lopmotr 7y ago
  It's actually easy to change the climate or geography for a person by moving that person out of the place with the bad environment. Unfortunately, the bad environments are also the cheapest so some other person will move in to enjoy the low cost of living and then they'll become the new poor who has to be saved.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Kaiyou 7y ago
Depends on context. African have genes which make them physically superior. They're generally bigger, stronger, faster etc. Just not smarter. Climate did affect this. If you don't live in a country with cold winters, evolution cannot select people with the foresight to prepare for winter. In a harsh winter, thousands of years ago, people that couldn't prepare for a period where food would be scarce would have bad survival prospects.
- renjimen 7y ago
  I used to think along the same lines, but I believe the harsh winter thing has been debunked. At least, Jared Diamond did a good job of it in Guns, Germs and Steel. From what I remember, we are physically and mentally challenged to similar levels on all parts of the earth. Societal development was more hampered or aided by environmental factors. For example, Africa is a tall, narrow continent compared with Eurasia, which has serious implications for flora and fauna diversity, the time it takes diseases to circulate, among other things. I'd recommend the book if you haven't read it already; quite enlightening.
lopmotr 7y ago
They probably do for intelligence. It's fairly well accepted that the Jewish high intelligence is genetic. It's not much of a stretch to consider that similar differences affect other ethnic groups too. There's no strong evidence to say that Europeans and Africans are genetically identical in intelligence so it's not reasonable to really believe that. But there are many ways to imagine how it could be true and that leaves room for blank-slaters to hold their belief of genetic equality specially carved out for intelligence alone among all human qualities.
- renjimen 7y ago
  > It's fairly well accepted that the Jewish high intelligence is genetic I haven't found anything conclusive for genetic differences in intelligence. The increased Jewish intelligence (at least, amonst Ashkenazi Jews, which is the subset most noted for their intelligence) could equally be ascribed to a culture of intense education. Nobody has ever done a cross-adoption study for Ashkenazi with non-Ashkenazi parents, and vice versa. I'm not what you would call a "blank-slater". Obviously we are a product of our environments, both during our lifetimes and evolutionarily. I find it hard to believe, however, that one set of humans required vastly different skills than another set, to the point where cognitive abilities didn't progress as far. There is no "easy life" in evolution. Competition is the same everywhere. If anything, the social systems in the western world could have allowed weaker genes to thrive where once they wouldn't.

So geography, external influence (e.g. colonialism) and climate (e.g. drought, as mentioned in the article) have nothing to do it with? Do you think Europeans have superior genes to Africans?

bluetomcat 7y ago

The environment is surely in the equation, but you can hardly change the climate or the geography. You can try to improve the socio-economic matters, but any sensible improvement of the genes may be seen in hundreds of years, and they will still be at a disadvantage because of the unfavourable climate.

renjimen 7y ago
It's interesting because excess stress can actually damage your DNA. How much so and how much it affects your children, I don't know. I suspect if you took an average European child and plonked them in a deprived part of Chad, they would fare about as well in life as your average Chadian child. And vice versa for a Chadian child in Europe. > you can hardly change the climate or the geography You can introduce new technologies to make the most of what they have. For example better water management and improved crop strains.
- bluetomcat 7y ago
  A Chadian child in Europe will enjoy a vastly better environment and healthcare which would prevent many potential diseases it would develop in Chad, but it would still be susceptible to diseases uncommon for Europeans and will have a vastly lower life expectancy. Under the severe conditions in Chad, a European child would still overtake Chadian children in its overall development, but would be susceptible to many local diseases. If the child manages to survive these diseases, it will enjoy a considerably longer and healthier life in that same environment.
  - renjimen 7y ago
    Do you have anything to back up these claims? They seem outlandish to me. For example, there are plenty of African migrants in Europe. I've never heard anything about a vastly reduced life expectancy. There are some small dietary problems they might have if they switched to local food and drink, but I would have thought that their immune system would adjust over time.
lopmotr 7y ago
It's actually easy to change the climate or geography for a person by moving that person out of the place with the bad environment. Unfortunately, the bad environments are also the cheapest so some other person will move in to enjoy the low cost of living and then they'll become the new poor who has to be saved.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Kaiyou 7y ago

Depends on context. African have genes which make them physically superior. They're generally bigger, stronger, faster etc. Just not smarter. Climate did affect this. If you don't live in a country with cold winters, evolution cannot select people with the foresight to prepare for winter. In a harsh winter, thousands of years ago, people that couldn't prepare for a period where food would be scarce would have bad survival prospects.

renjimen 7y ago
I used to think along the same lines, but I believe the harsh winter thing has been debunked. At least, Jared Diamond did a good job of it in Guns, Germs and Steel. From what I remember, we are physically and mentally challenged to similar levels on all parts of the earth. Societal development was more hampered or aided by environmental factors. For example, Africa is a tall, narrow continent compared with Eurasia, which has serious implications for flora and fauna diversity, the time it takes diseases to circulate, among other things. I'd recommend the book if you haven't read it already; quite enlightening.

lopmotr 7y ago

They probably do for intelligence. It's fairly well accepted that the Jewish high intelligence is genetic. It's not much of a stretch to consider that similar differences affect other ethnic groups too. There's no strong evidence to say that Europeans and Africans are genetically identical in intelligence so it's not reasonable to really believe that. But there are many ways to imagine how it could be true and that leaves room for blank-slaters to hold their belief of genetic equality specially carved out for intelligence alone among all human qualities.

renjimen 7y ago
> It's fairly well accepted that the Jewish high intelligence is genetic I haven't found anything conclusive for genetic differences in intelligence. The increased Jewish intelligence (at least, amonst Ashkenazi Jews, which is the subset most noted for their intelligence) could equally be ascribed to a culture of intense education. Nobody has ever done a cross-adoption study for Ashkenazi with non-Ashkenazi parents, and vice versa. I'm not what you would call a "blank-slater". Obviously we are a product of our environments, both during our lifetimes and evolutionarily. I find it hard to believe, however, that one set of humans required vastly different skills than another set, to the point where cognitive abilities didn't progress as far. There is no "easy life" in evolution. Competition is the same everywhere. If anything, the social systems in the western world could have allowed weaker genes to thrive where once they wouldn't.