7 ms·

> RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. That's not what happe

> RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. That's not what happened.

colechristensen 7y ago
RMS defending his friend was happening Minsky was accused, and those are the details. It doesn't matter if it didn't happen, RMS was defending Minsky in the situation that it did by saying the girl who was less than a quarter of his age would have appeared willing. That gets you fired. Even if it is entirely hypothetical.
- NhanH 7y ago
  I don't see it as RMS defending his friend. He was purely concerned with making the correct accusation. Some people considers that as "defending", which might have never been his intention. Why would he be concerned with such details if not for defending Minsky? He is weird, and pendatic. But that we knew for a long time.
  - xwolfi 7y ago
    He's insufferable, you mean. They don't give a rat's ass what he actually said or thought, they wanted him out for so long they couldn't believe their luck he decided to publicly redefine the morality of statutory rape on a corporate mailing list. Some people do software, like Linus Torvalds, other linger for decades doing nothing and discuss the value of rape. Hope we'll hear less of his nonsense in the future.
- lostjohnny 7y ago
  > RMS defending his friend was happening Although it looks like you really believe that's what happened, it is not what happened. And no amount of repetitions can change the fact that he did not "defend his friend from rape accusations". > It doesn't matter if it didn't happen It kinda matters though... > That gets you fired. Even if it is entirely hypothetical. And that's absurd. We always arrive at the same conclusion. EDIT: can I ask you why all these comments look the same? it kinda looks like a pattern to me... https://imgur.com/a/Wm92IDQ https://imgur.com/a/Wm92IDQ
  - iaml 7y ago
    You wrote 'it is not what happened' twice now, but don't offer another point of view on what did happen. That's not how argument works.
    - lostjohnny 7y ago
      But id didn't. He just expresses on honest opinion on the matter. Like he always did all of his life. > That's not how argument works. To prove you wrong I don't have to prove an alternative scenario. You are wrong, that's enough.
      - iaml 7y ago
        Your definition of 'wrong' is certainly agreeable but not exactly relevant in this situation. Yes, technically RMS was just being nitpicky, but in the context it doesn't matter. The comment was inappropriate and any person in RMS's place has to understand that because of their high profile everything they say/do can and will be used against them. Those are the rules of the game (public relations), and if you don't play the game (like RMS), the game will play you.
        lostjohnny 7y ago
        > Your definition of 'wrong' is certainly agreeable It's just what it is, he wasn't defending his friend, which, BTW, is not even accused of raping anybody. > The comment was inappropriate Like this is new for RMS... I never said he is not weird, I've said he never supported or praised or defended rapists. That's enough to prove who said it wrong. It's all in the transcripts, it's all there, word by word. > Those are the rules of the game (public relations), But he's not a PR. He has never been.
        muh_gradle 7y ago
        > But he's not a PR. He has never been. Right, and this time he has finally paid the price. I admire RMS; he's a genius, and he's done a lot with FSF. But I'm tired of his jackassery. If he, in his high profile position, wants to make arguments nitpicking what is rape and what is the age of consent with what is obviously a sensitive subject, then sure. Just don't do a surprised Pikachu when people hate him and want him gone.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  And never shall a man accused of treason have a lawyer, for to defend someone who is accused of treason (and therefore has likely committed treason) is itself an act of treason, is it not? And surely to defend a rapist, even an accused one, is nearly as bad as being a rapist? Why, perhaps we should skip the courts all together and simply tar and feather them in the public. That's worked out well historically...
  - colechristensen 7y ago
    He resigned. He was asked to resign because it's a good play for MIT, you don't have to defend against a wrongful termination suit if the person in question willingly resigns. If he wanted to defend himself, he would have stayed and fought, let himself get fired, file a lawsuit. But he resigned, willingly.
    - gwd 7y ago
      > If he wanted to defend himself, he would have stayed and fought, let himself get fired, file a lawsuit. But he resigned, willingly. Or possibly, because both the SFC [1] and the head of the GNOME foundation [2] said that they would find it unacceptable to work with the FSF as long as Stallman was still the leader, he realized there was no way staying on would be possible. [1] https://sfconservancy.org/news/2019/sep/16/rms-does-not-speak-for-us/ https://sfconservancy.org/news/2019/sep/16/rms-does-not-spea... [2] https://blog.halon.org.uk/2019/09/gnome-foundation-relationship-gnu-fsf/ https://blog.halon.org.uk/2019/09/gnome-foundation-relations...
    - sangnoir 7y ago
      To be fair, it is morally absurd to define ‘fired’ in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was asked to resign or volunteered on their own volition.
  - X6S1x6Okd1st 7y ago
    This isn't in the courts.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  I actually haven't seen Minsky being accused. That court transcript says that she was 'directed to have sex' with Minsky but nowhere does it say she did and there is an eyewitness claiming he - Minsky - turned her down. So RMS is defending his deceased friend as though he was accused, it would have been more effective to question the accusation rather than to defend as though it had happened.
  - xwolfi 7y ago
    I would have said: I take upon myself to guarantee my friend never touched that poor girl, and he always felt horrified she was exploited so. He said: The girl was most likely willing, and it's morally imprecise to call this a rape, at worst it would be a statutory rape. Who gets respect, who gets fired ? :D
    - boring_twenties 7y ago
      > He said: The girl was most likely willing He very clearly did not say that, he said the girl was most likely presented to him as willing. How is it you've made half a dozen posts in a thread about this without even bothering to read what you're commenting about?
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        > How is it you've made half a dozen posts in a thread about this without even bothering to read what you're commenting about? Par for the course, ditto everybody else that did not bother to read the court transcript. It's 200+ pages but doublespaced, you can go over the whole thing in an hour or two, it makes you wonder how Epstein ever managed to avoid being jailed for a long time. I'll bet that before this whole thing is over there will be many more 'names' that end up disgraced or worse.
    - balaksakrionon 7y ago
      > The girl was most likely willing Why do you feel compelled to paraphrase (and in the process lie)?
  - 7y ago
base698 7y ago
Care to elaborate?

> RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. That's not what happened.

colechristensen 7y ago

RMS defending his friend was happening Minsky was accused, and those are the details. It doesn't matter if it didn't happen, RMS was defending Minsky in the situation that it did by saying the girl who was less than a quarter of his age would have appeared willing. That gets you fired. Even if it is entirely hypothetical.

NhanH 7y ago
I don't see it as RMS defending his friend. He was purely concerned with making the correct accusation. Some people considers that as "defending", which might have never been his intention. Why would he be concerned with such details if not for defending Minsky? He is weird, and pendatic. But that we knew for a long time.
- xwolfi 7y ago
  He's insufferable, you mean. They don't give a rat's ass what he actually said or thought, they wanted him out for so long they couldn't believe their luck he decided to publicly redefine the morality of statutory rape on a corporate mailing list. Some people do software, like Linus Torvalds, other linger for decades doing nothing and discuss the value of rape. Hope we'll hear less of his nonsense in the future.
lostjohnny 7y ago
> RMS defending his friend was happening Although it looks like you really believe that's what happened, it is not what happened. And no amount of repetitions can change the fact that he did not "defend his friend from rape accusations". > It doesn't matter if it didn't happen It kinda matters though... > That gets you fired. Even if it is entirely hypothetical. And that's absurd. We always arrive at the same conclusion. EDIT: can I ask you why all these comments look the same? it kinda looks like a pattern to me... https://imgur.com/a/Wm92IDQ https://imgur.com/a/Wm92IDQ
- iaml 7y ago
  You wrote 'it is not what happened' twice now, but don't offer another point of view on what did happen. That's not how argument works.
  - lostjohnny 7y ago
    But id didn't. He just expresses on honest opinion on the matter. Like he always did all of his life. > That's not how argument works. To prove you wrong I don't have to prove an alternative scenario. You are wrong, that's enough.
    - iaml 7y ago
      Your definition of 'wrong' is certainly agreeable but not exactly relevant in this situation. Yes, technically RMS was just being nitpicky, but in the context it doesn't matter. The comment was inappropriate and any person in RMS's place has to understand that because of their high profile everything they say/do can and will be used against them. Those are the rules of the game (public relations), and if you don't play the game (like RMS), the game will play you.
      - lostjohnny 7y ago
        > Your definition of 'wrong' is certainly agreeable It's just what it is, he wasn't defending his friend, which, BTW, is not even accused of raping anybody. > The comment was inappropriate Like this is new for RMS... I never said he is not weird, I've said he never supported or praised or defended rapists. That's enough to prove who said it wrong. It's all in the transcripts, it's all there, word by word. > Those are the rules of the game (public relations), But he's not a PR. He has never been.
        muh_gradle 7y ago
        > But he's not a PR. He has never been. Right, and this time he has finally paid the price. I admire RMS; he's a genius, and he's done a lot with FSF. But I'm tired of his jackassery. If he, in his high profile position, wants to make arguments nitpicking what is rape and what is the age of consent with what is obviously a sensitive subject, then sure. Just don't do a surprised Pikachu when people hate him and want him gone.
vorpalhex 7y ago
And never shall a man accused of treason have a lawyer, for to defend someone who is accused of treason (and therefore has likely committed treason) is itself an act of treason, is it not? And surely to defend a rapist, even an accused one, is nearly as bad as being a rapist? Why, perhaps we should skip the courts all together and simply tar and feather them in the public. That's worked out well historically...
- colechristensen 7y ago
  He resigned. He was asked to resign because it's a good play for MIT, you don't have to defend against a wrongful termination suit if the person in question willingly resigns. If he wanted to defend himself, he would have stayed and fought, let himself get fired, file a lawsuit. But he resigned, willingly.
  - gwd 7y ago
    > If he wanted to defend himself, he would have stayed and fought, let himself get fired, file a lawsuit. But he resigned, willingly. Or possibly, because both the SFC [1] and the head of the GNOME foundation [2] said that they would find it unacceptable to work with the FSF as long as Stallman was still the leader, he realized there was no way staying on would be possible. [1] https://sfconservancy.org/news/2019/sep/16/rms-does-not-speak-for-us/ https://sfconservancy.org/news/2019/sep/16/rms-does-not-spea... [2] https://blog.halon.org.uk/2019/09/gnome-foundation-relationship-gnu-fsf/ https://blog.halon.org.uk/2019/09/gnome-foundation-relations...
  - sangnoir 7y ago
    To be fair, it is morally absurd to define ‘fired’ in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was asked to resign or volunteered on their own volition.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 7y ago
  This isn't in the courts.
jacquesm 7y ago
I actually haven't seen Minsky being accused. That court transcript says that she was 'directed to have sex' with Minsky but nowhere does it say she did and there is an eyewitness claiming he - Minsky - turned her down. So RMS is defending his deceased friend as though he was accused, it would have been more effective to question the accusation rather than to defend as though it had happened.
- xwolfi 7y ago
  I would have said: I take upon myself to guarantee my friend never touched that poor girl, and he always felt horrified she was exploited so. He said: The girl was most likely willing, and it's morally imprecise to call this a rape, at worst it would be a statutory rape. Who gets respect, who gets fired ? :D
  - boring_twenties 7y ago
    > He said: The girl was most likely willing He very clearly did not say that, he said the girl was most likely presented to him as willing. How is it you've made half a dozen posts in a thread about this without even bothering to read what you're commenting about?
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      > How is it you've made half a dozen posts in a thread about this without even bothering to read what you're commenting about? Par for the course, ditto everybody else that did not bother to read the court transcript. It's 200+ pages but doublespaced, you can go over the whole thing in an hour or two, it makes you wonder how Epstein ever managed to avoid being jailed for a long time. I'll bet that before this whole thing is over there will be many more 'names' that end up disgraced or worse.
  - balaksakrionon 7y ago
    > The girl was most likely willing Why do you feel compelled to paraphrase (and in the process lie)?
- 7y ago

base698 7y ago

Care to elaborate?