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Take a Look at the Crossrail Station Under Bond Street

142 points by edward 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
crispyporkbites 7y ago
Crossrail is a MASSIVE project. It's actually really impressive that it's getting delivered at all. I hope we see a lot more of these large scale projects - they don't just change commutes and travel, they change places and lives.
- laumars 7y ago
  This is a topic very close to me because I live and work on the Crossrail route. I've seen how this has affected house prices and, frankly, I can't wait some of the burden is taken off the Central Line. You're absolutely right about how significant a change a project like this is in terms of towns, communities and lives.
- ponyous 7y ago
  In 2015 I remember seeing billboards around construction sites saying: "Biggest construction project in Europe". Not sure what the claim was based off.
- rdlou 7y ago
  and the Tideway project. Huge feats of engineering. Although I doubt a considerable sewerage pipe is going to increase your home value.
  - danpalmer 7y ago
    I live close to one of the tributaries that is significantly affected by the sewage issues in London at the moment, not far from the Three Mills area. I've looked at flats around there and they are a good 15-20% cheaper than I'd expect... with the main caveat being that much of the area kinda smells. I would expect many of them to increase in value once Tideway comes online and that area smells less. I also walk along the Jubilee Greenway in East London quite a lot, and much of that is built on top of the old above-ground sewer pipes that lead down to the old Bazalgette sewage pumping station in Abbey Mills. Hopefully once those pipes are decommissioned the Jubilee Greenway should be much nicer to walk along! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Mills_Pumping_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Mills_Pumping_Station
  - crispyporkbites 7y ago
    I suppose if the sewage pipe isn't there it would have a dramatic affect of reducing your home value :)
- isostatic 7y ago
  Crossrail has added billions to land values (and thus house prices) along the route. This is a wealth transfer from income tax payers to land owners. Income tax payers are already at breaking point - especially those who don't own land. Don't expect many more "rob from the poor to give to the rich" schemes until tax is reformed.
  - blibble 7y ago
    the expensive bit is the tunnel and stations under central london where there aren't any houses
    - mannykannot 7y ago
      Maybe so, but that cannot be separated from the project as a whole, as there is no point to it if it did not go there.
    - isostatic 7y ago
      That's not really the point. 1) Crossrail cost billions 2) Income tax payers in the UK had to pay for that 3) Income tax payers have had enough and don't want to pay for infrastructure that benefits others Those who benefitted the most? The land owners in London who have made billions If the price increases -- the portion solely due to crossrail -- was taxed at 42% like income, then there would be far more money available for useful projects (like crossrail) Therefore the OPs hope ("I hope we see a lot more of these large scale projects") would be answered
      - dublinben 7y ago
        Those who benefit most from Crossrail will be those who will ride it every day. Increased property values around the route is just the visible effect of the benefit of being able to ride it. Secondary benefits will also fall on riders of other lines and street transportation that become less congested by riders diverted to the new Crossrail route.
        7y ago
Shivetya 7y ago
The noise dampening efforts are the most interesting to me. They mentioned to fan noise as still being very noticeable with efforts to minimize the impact on those living in the surrounding areas. My question is, is that hard to mask the noise of fans?
- codeulike 7y ago
  The fans are pretty huge https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2017/06/10/cooling-the-tube-engineering-heat-out-of-the-underground/ https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2017/06/10/cooling-the-tube...
- magashna 7y ago
  My experience only being having a central air AC unit on top of my building, the noise is only part of it. With fans this large you can feel their movement if not perfectly maintained.
rayiner 7y ago
Crossrail is an incredible achievement by the British. $22 billion to build 26 miles of new track on a 73-mile train line, through some of the most expensive real estate in the world, including 13 miles of tunnels underneath downtown London. And delivered only two years late. By contrast, New York’s second avenue subway will easily exceed Crossrail’s $22 billion cost, if it’s ever finished. For that price New Yorkers will get just 8.5 miles of downtown tunnels (versus Crossrail’s 13). And they won’t get the additional dozen or so miles of new above ground commuter railroad that Crossrail has managed to build for that price. Moreover, Crossrail started somewhat later (2009 versus 2007), but will be done by 2020, while New York will take until 2027-29 just to finish the first two phases totaling 3.5 miles. The remaining 5 miles may never be completed at this rate. EDIT: As 'pcwalton correctly pointed out, about 2/3 of Crossrail's suburban rail was pre-existing, so my per-mile cost for Crossrail was too low. It's difficult to calculate the per-mile cost of new Crossrail track, because part of the $22 billion budget involves upgrades to the 45-miles or so of existing track and stations. But even assuming all that cost nothing, it's about $850 million per mile to build the new segments through downtown London. The Maryland Purple Line, by contrast, is $350 million per mile to build light rail on existing city streets through suburban Maryland. And the DC Silver Line is about $300 million per mile to build heavy rail on existing, reserved freeway medians through suburban and exurban Virginia.
- arethuza 7y ago
  There are some interesting challenges with projects like this in London: "It's estimated that there's about 17,000 tonnes of bombs that were dropped on London in WWII and the rule of thumb is about 10% failed to explode," https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23518137 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23518137 [I guess UXO must be an even bigger problem for German cities].
- MagnumOpus 7y ago
  > Building a 73 mile train line through some of the most expensive real estate in the world Apart from the 13 miles of tunnel in the middle, pretty much the entire above-ground train line existed already, so it's not a fair comparison -- the need for real estate purchases for Crossrail was comparatively very small.
malandrew 7y ago
What's fascinating about reading this is the parallels to technical debt and slowdowns in large software ecosystems within mature and maturing companies. This would be a good read for someone non-technical to better understand similar software engineering challenges because a rail station and the delays described are far easier for a layperson to relate to.

142 points by edward 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Crossrail is a MASSIVE project. It's actually really impressive that it's getting delivered at all. I hope we see a lot more of these large scale projects - they don't just change commutes and travel, they change places and lives.

laumars 7y ago
This is a topic very close to me because I live and work on the Crossrail route. I've seen how this has affected house prices and, frankly, I can't wait some of the burden is taken off the Central Line. You're absolutely right about how significant a change a project like this is in terms of towns, communities and lives.
ponyous 7y ago
In 2015 I remember seeing billboards around construction sites saying: "Biggest construction project in Europe". Not sure what the claim was based off.
rdlou 7y ago
and the Tideway project. Huge feats of engineering. Although I doubt a considerable sewerage pipe is going to increase your home value.
- danpalmer 7y ago
  I live close to one of the tributaries that is significantly affected by the sewage issues in London at the moment, not far from the Three Mills area. I've looked at flats around there and they are a good 15-20% cheaper than I'd expect... with the main caveat being that much of the area kinda smells. I would expect many of them to increase in value once Tideway comes online and that area smells less. I also walk along the Jubilee Greenway in East London quite a lot, and much of that is built on top of the old above-ground sewer pipes that lead down to the old Bazalgette sewage pumping station in Abbey Mills. Hopefully once those pipes are decommissioned the Jubilee Greenway should be much nicer to walk along! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Mills_Pumping_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Mills_Pumping_Station
- crispyporkbites 7y ago
  I suppose if the sewage pipe isn't there it would have a dramatic affect of reducing your home value :)
isostatic 7y ago
Crossrail has added billions to land values (and thus house prices) along the route. This is a wealth transfer from income tax payers to land owners. Income tax payers are already at breaking point - especially those who don't own land. Don't expect many more "rob from the poor to give to the rich" schemes until tax is reformed.
- blibble 7y ago
  the expensive bit is the tunnel and stations under central london where there aren't any houses
  - mannykannot 7y ago
    Maybe so, but that cannot be separated from the project as a whole, as there is no point to it if it did not go there.
  - isostatic 7y ago
    That's not really the point. 1) Crossrail cost billions 2) Income tax payers in the UK had to pay for that 3) Income tax payers have had enough and don't want to pay for infrastructure that benefits others Those who benefitted the most? The land owners in London who have made billions If the price increases -- the portion solely due to crossrail -- was taxed at 42% like income, then there would be far more money available for useful projects (like crossrail) Therefore the OPs hope ("I hope we see a lot more of these large scale projects") would be answered
    - dublinben 7y ago
      Those who benefit most from Crossrail will be those who will ride it every day. Increased property values around the route is just the visible effect of the benefit of being able to ride it. Secondary benefits will also fall on riders of other lines and street transportation that become less congested by riders diverted to the new Crossrail route.
      - 7y ago

Shivetya 7y ago

The noise dampening efforts are the most interesting to me. They mentioned to fan noise as still being very noticeable with efforts to minimize the impact on those living in the surrounding areas. My question is, is that hard to mask the noise of fans?

codeulike 7y ago
The fans are pretty huge https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2017/06/10/cooling-the-tube-engineering-heat-out-of-the-underground/ https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2017/06/10/cooling-the-tube...
magashna 7y ago
My experience only being having a central air AC unit on top of my building, the noise is only part of it. With fans this large you can feel their movement if not perfectly maintained.

rayiner 7y ago

Crossrail is an incredible achievement by the British. $22 billion to build 26 miles of new track on a 73-mile train line, through some of the most expensive real estate in the world, including 13 miles of tunnels underneath downtown London. And delivered only two years late. By contrast, New York’s second avenue subway will easily exceed Crossrail’s $22 billion cost, if it’s ever finished. For that price New Yorkers will get just 8.5 miles of downtown tunnels (versus Crossrail’s 13). And they won’t get the additional dozen or so miles of new above ground commuter railroad that Crossrail has managed to build for that price. Moreover, Crossrail started somewhat later (2009 versus 2007), but will be done by 2020, while New York will take until 2027-29 just to finish the first two phases totaling 3.5 miles. The remaining 5 miles may never be completed at this rate. EDIT: As 'pcwalton correctly pointed out, about 2/3 of Crossrail's suburban rail was pre-existing, so my per-mile cost for Crossrail was too low. It's difficult to calculate the per-mile cost of new Crossrail track, because part of the $22 billion budget involves upgrades to the 45-miles or so of existing track and stations. But even assuming all that cost nothing, it's about $850 million per mile to build the new segments through downtown London. The Maryland Purple Line, by contrast, is $350 million per mile to build light rail on existing city streets through suburban Maryland. And the DC Silver Line is about $300 million per mile to build heavy rail on existing, reserved freeway medians through suburban and exurban Virginia.

arethuza 7y ago
There are some interesting challenges with projects like this in London: "It's estimated that there's about 17,000 tonnes of bombs that were dropped on London in WWII and the rule of thumb is about 10% failed to explode," https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23518137 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23518137 [I guess UXO must be an even bigger problem for German cities].
MagnumOpus 7y ago
> Building a 73 mile train line through some of the most expensive real estate in the world Apart from the 13 miles of tunnel in the middle, pretty much the entire above-ground train line existed already, so it's not a fair comparison -- the need for real estate purchases for Crossrail was comparatively very small.

malandrew 7y ago

What's fascinating about reading this is the parallels to technical debt and slowdowns in large software ecosystems within mature and maturing companies. This would be a good read for someone non-technical to better understand similar software engineering challenges because a rail station and the delays described are far easier for a layperson to relate to.