11 ms·

A man repopulated a rare butterfly species in his backyard (2016)

205 points by rococode 7y ago

cjslep 7y ago
Clearly a waste of time if he wasn't getting paid for it. Imagine all the other wasted efforts of time and money that other people would do if we as a society paid them well enough to have excess time and money to do these sorts of pointless non-entrepreneurial adventures. What if he put all this effort in and makes the world a better place for nothing? (Heavy satire / sarcasm)
- JulianMorrison 7y ago
  Corollary: it's worth recognizing the number of hidden people who want to do this, but because of the way society has been set up to goad them into "paying work", can't.
  - Double_a_92 7y ago
    At least some part of your work say to be "paying"... Otherwise you probably wouldn't have food, shelter or other luxury that you might want.
    - JulianMorrison 7y ago
      In my opinion, none of those things should be contingent on being paid. At least at a minimum level, it should be possible to eat nutritious food, have homely and comfortable shelter, fresh water, warmth, clothing, medical care, everything you need to survive and thrive, just because you're human and society is not barbaric. Then when you work it would be because you want to expand beyond that minimum, or because it's a thing that you want to do, for personal reasons, to serve the community, etc.
      - Faark 7y ago
        Thing is it can be very cheap to "waste" your time and become harder and harder to get out of. I'm kind of trying that at the moment. I totally agree that society should make sure peoples basic needs are met, but don't see a reason why this should not involve trading in some of your time. So yeah, why not having to offer 20h/week to the gov to get all that? This kinda sets a minimum wage while offering everyone a way to fulfill their basic needs. What job/task the gov has/can find for you is another problem, but doesn't seem unsolvable to me.
        JulianMorrison 7y ago
        The reason not to do that is that (1) it risks creating a serf underclass, and (2) a big part of the point of this is to free up time for people to do things they want to do but are not yet profitable - like study, like art, and like starting a business that isn't able to pay a subsistence salary yet. Which is completely obviated by taking that time away. It's also based in the paradigm of forcing people to do things rather than having faith in their willingness to contribute to the community.
        Faark 7y ago
        > having faith in their willingness to contribute to the community I feel like my parents subscribe to this view, that this willingness comes naturally for us. It did not. Might have been different a few generations ago, but its easier than ever to live with barely any contact to a community to contribute to. So your paradigm would likely have to "drag along" an increasing number of people. > free up time I didn't go with 40 for a reason :) This number has to be adjusted depending on societies ability, just like a minimum wage. > it risks creating a serf underclass Valid concern, but probably already reality, just harder to classify and right now less done by the gov. UBI/needs provided would kind of do the same, I think. I also don't see keeping some trade aspect making class mobility harder than what we currently have right now.
        JulianMorrison 7y ago
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - CalRobert 7y ago
    Our entire society is built to trap you in to working on things you don't care about to make other people rich. You go to college, get a pile of debt, and now you've lost the freedom to do what you like with your time because you have to optimise for income. Or you don't go to college, don't have debt, but can't afford a reasonable home because the collegiates voted to make it illegal to build new ones, and DEFINITELY don't want any home that isn't gigantic and doesn't have parking. No modest townhouse for you! You decide to follow your dream and get a part time job so with the rest of your time you do a net good for the world, and you get sick. You lacked insurance. You survive, but have learned your lesson and know not to step out of line, especially since you now have huge debts. Every aspect of our lives has become an exercising in maximising profit. And yet most don't seem to feel very wealthy. We run ourselves ragged for the sake of others. Taking as path that means earning less money and more time is considered foolish at best, irresponsible at worst. And we're doing all this to help rip the lungs and heart of our planet apart to help a few lucky psychopaths get a brief hit on the hedonic treadmill before they die, just in time to miss the gen z'ers in a dead world cursing their name. I think it might be better to start with nothing than with the massive negative equity many young people wind up with when starting life.
    - bsenftner 7y ago
      For these reasons and more, an increasing number of people choose not to have kids. It feels unethical to bring them into this rat race.
- kmjg88nvf8 7y ago
  Sadly, most people would just watch Netflix.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - Crinus 7y ago
    What is the problem with that? Besides for most people to be able to watch Netflix, some people will need to make Netflix. If there aren't enough people to make Netflix, something else will be made but at the end of the day there is no way nobody will do anything - if nothing else, people will be bored and actively want to do something.
    - chmod775 7y ago
      There's nothing better than boredom for inspiration and motivation.
      - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
        You seem to be under the assumption that the masses will find inspiration and motivation to do things you don't find disagreeable. I'm emphatically for people having the resources to pursue whatever the heck the want (even if that's sitting around drinking beer) but I think that most of the UBI crowd is out of touch with how the people who will most benefit from UBI will use their newfound freedom. Covering poor people's housing and food expenses isn't going to magically make them want to spend their time acting upper middle class. You give people freedom and they will act how they want, not necessarily how you want. I'd still call that a win but many will not.
        Crinus 7y ago
        FWIW i'd also call that a win... but perhaps i do not see what could possibly go wrong :-P
- jankotek 7y ago
  What makes you think that money would be well spend? I think most people would still sit on their asses watching netflix... now with a fancy job title and paycheck. This butterfly is amazing and with good story, crowdfunding should be doable. Also Bay area already spends several billions on environmental protections, why this budget did not cover this project?
  - pvaldes 7y ago
    Crowfunding here is a problem, because the animal is rare, beautiful and desired by collectors, and anybody less well-intentioned than this man could collect the funds and then breed the butterflies with the only purpose of sell it preserved on internet later. Even if 50% of rare butterflies killed and sold would be better for the species than having no butterflies at all, it poses some legal conflicts and dangers for the wild population, would be trading of a rare species. With big butterflies cames a big responsability
    - pvaldes 7y ago
      Update: it seems that fortunately is just locally rare in the city, so I'm wrong and the former does not apply.
- stevespang 7y ago
  Like your arrogant post was also a waste of your time, eh ? Some people just want to give back to the world.
_carl_jung 7y ago
Fantastic. Makes me want to see what I can do to benefit the Scottish ecosystem just a little. I've heard planting a patch of wildflowers in your garden is a good start.
- Angostura 7y ago
  I volunteer with what used to be the British Trust for Conservation Volunteers - here's the Scottish section https://www.tcv.org.uk/scotland/ https://www.tcv.org.uk/scotland/ I get to work with some very knowledgeable people, wade around chest-high in pond waders and use a chainsaw.
- JulianMorrison 7y ago
  Plant natives that are suited to your soil type and support bees. Wildflowers might not be good because they generally need less-fertile soil than a tended garden. Also put out bee houses and bird nesting sites, and leave autumn leaf fall in situ overwinter as a place for critters to hibernate.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    It also needs tending if you are to prevent thistles, nettles and brambles etc dominating. We have a spot with native wild species, and it's a lovely little insect and bird oasis, but there's some constant control required. Far less than much gardening or tending a perfect lawn certainly, but not maintenance free. We made a point of not having blackberries in the mix, but nature intervened and some bird must have planted one for us. If only they were easier to get shot of...
  - stinos 7y ago
    and support bees And all other pollinating species as well, there's way more than just bees :) But good adivce about native plants: around here there's a bit of a hype in certain circles and people are all over what they call 'bee plants' but forget that non-native plants which happen to have pretty flowers usually do not provide anything but nectar for a couple of generalist species, so not all native ones, plus don't take part in the reproduction cycle because they aren't wanted food for the caterpillars. To get native plants, which support the most biodiversity, essentially the best thing you can do in a lot of situations is: not too much. Leave your lawn grow, current herbs (if any) will develop and other will fly in as seeds. Then for instance mow once in spring and once at the end of the summer (hard to tell eaxctly, depends on what grows currently and soil type). Remove what you mow: otherwise the nutrients make it back into the soil so the fast-growing plants which thrive on nitrogen (grass, nettles) get a jumpstart while the slower growing ones (most flowering ones) don't get a chance and won't get enough space and light. Don't mow everything at once, you'd take away shelter and housing for may fauna. Likewise be sure to leave pathches uncut during winter in order to e.g. not get rid of the eggs of butterflies. After one or more years you should see transition into a native meadow i.e. also flowering herbs instead of just grass.
crispinb 7y ago
What a splendid story. Good on him.
pvaldes 7y ago
Is interesting that there are two species repopulated here, not one, but the most interesting of both is disregarded. Aristolochia is easy to culture, even if it grows like a climbing tangled mess. If you want to do something similar in your garden do it, will be a rewarding activity, but remember that this plant should not be touched with bare hands frequently. Neither be drank. Is claimed by chinese medecine as having some properties as herbal tea but in fact it contains Aristolochic acids, that are known as carcinogenic and nephrotoxic substances. Renal failure is perfectly possible. Enjoying this strange mottled creature with your eyes is perfectly safe. For the rest, use garden gloves.
jankotek 7y ago
I searched a bit. This species is not endangered, it is spread over CA, just very very rare in SF. (Also there might be a subspecies, not really sure). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battus_philenor_hirsuta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battus_philenor_hirsuta https://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Battus-philenor https://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Battus-philenor
vectorEQ 7y ago
i am happy theres alteast some people concerned and working for our environment instead of passing stupid laws and doing fk all. it's not hard to make your yard or environment more friendly for the local wildlife, and its super important to do so with current conditions. for example in my country, even in 'protected' areas, insect populations are down by as much as 85%!. Thats just because people are a bit lazy and put pavement in their backyards instead of some simple grass and flowers. take time for your environment, not for yourself, but for the next generation of people to be able to enjoy life. don't expect government or politics to resolve such an issue, they are only out for money and forever hampered by budget issues and childish disagreements between politicians.
Myraly 7y ago
watch Netflix
slics 7y ago
We have come to a realization that in order for one to be considered of importance, one must own and get paid a large amount of wealth and income. Question is, why can’t the value of giving be considered of same importance? Giving can be any services, time, materials or more importantly your experience and your honest to god effort to provide help.
- gchamonlive 7y ago
  Because of control. Wealth and income are easier to control than what you describe. So the society is built around worshiping and paying certain figures so everyone else gets caught up in this loop in hopes of getting where these mediatic figures are.
- mikestew 7y ago
  Question is, why can’t the value of giving be considered of same importance? Entire books have been written, entire philosophical careers made from just such a question. Me, I think it is a reflection on what we as individuals think important. And the votes are in: we vote money and power. Not a lot of comic books about the quiet Zen master tending to her students for thirty years.
anherome21003 7y ago
Whose sperm did he use?
anotheryou 7y ago
If there was no catastrophic population collapse, how do more butterflies in the wild help to reintroduce the species? I'd think they'd eat all of the last of those plants and that's it. And if it was catastrophic collapse it should be able to bounce back from the few remaining or from surrounding populations, no?

205 points by rococode 7y ago

Clearly a waste of time if he wasn't getting paid for it. Imagine all the other wasted efforts of time and money that other people would do if we as a society paid them well enough to have excess time and money to do these sorts of pointless non-entrepreneurial adventures. What if he put all this effort in and makes the world a better place for nothing? (Heavy satire / sarcasm)

JulianMorrison 7y ago
Corollary: it's worth recognizing the number of hidden people who want to do this, but because of the way society has been set up to goad them into "paying work", can't.
- Double_a_92 7y ago
  At least some part of your work say to be "paying"... Otherwise you probably wouldn't have food, shelter or other luxury that you might want.
  - JulianMorrison 7y ago
    In my opinion, none of those things should be contingent on being paid. At least at a minimum level, it should be possible to eat nutritious food, have homely and comfortable shelter, fresh water, warmth, clothing, medical care, everything you need to survive and thrive, just because you're human and society is not barbaric. Then when you work it would be because you want to expand beyond that minimum, or because it's a thing that you want to do, for personal reasons, to serve the community, etc.
    - Faark 7y ago
      Thing is it can be very cheap to "waste" your time and become harder and harder to get out of. I'm kind of trying that at the moment. I totally agree that society should make sure peoples basic needs are met, but don't see a reason why this should not involve trading in some of your time. So yeah, why not having to offer 20h/week to the gov to get all that? This kinda sets a minimum wage while offering everyone a way to fulfill their basic needs. What job/task the gov has/can find for you is another problem, but doesn't seem unsolvable to me.
      - JulianMorrison 7y ago
        The reason not to do that is that (1) it risks creating a serf underclass, and (2) a big part of the point of this is to free up time for people to do things they want to do but are not yet profitable - like study, like art, and like starting a business that isn't able to pay a subsistence salary yet. Which is completely obviated by taking that time away. It's also based in the paradigm of forcing people to do things rather than having faith in their willingness to contribute to the community.
        Faark 7y ago
        > having faith in their willingness to contribute to the community I feel like my parents subscribe to this view, that this willingness comes naturally for us. It did not. Might have been different a few generations ago, but its easier than ever to live with barely any contact to a community to contribute to. So your paradigm would likely have to "drag along" an increasing number of people. > free up time I didn't go with 40 for a reason :) This number has to be adjusted depending on societies ability, just like a minimum wage. > it risks creating a serf underclass Valid concern, but probably already reality, just harder to classify and right now less done by the gov. UBI/needs provided would kind of do the same, I think. I also don't see keeping some trade aspect making class mobility harder than what we currently have right now.
        JulianMorrison 7y ago
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- CalRobert 7y ago
  Our entire society is built to trap you in to working on things you don't care about to make other people rich. You go to college, get a pile of debt, and now you've lost the freedom to do what you like with your time because you have to optimise for income. Or you don't go to college, don't have debt, but can't afford a reasonable home because the collegiates voted to make it illegal to build new ones, and DEFINITELY don't want any home that isn't gigantic and doesn't have parking. No modest townhouse for you! You decide to follow your dream and get a part time job so with the rest of your time you do a net good for the world, and you get sick. You lacked insurance. You survive, but have learned your lesson and know not to step out of line, especially since you now have huge debts. Every aspect of our lives has become an exercising in maximising profit. And yet most don't seem to feel very wealthy. We run ourselves ragged for the sake of others. Taking as path that means earning less money and more time is considered foolish at best, irresponsible at worst. And we're doing all this to help rip the lungs and heart of our planet apart to help a few lucky psychopaths get a brief hit on the hedonic treadmill before they die, just in time to miss the gen z'ers in a dead world cursing their name. I think it might be better to start with nothing than with the massive negative equity many young people wind up with when starting life.
  - bsenftner 7y ago
    For these reasons and more, an increasing number of people choose not to have kids. It feels unethical to bring them into this rat race.
kmjg88nvf8 7y ago
Sadly, most people would just watch Netflix.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Crinus 7y ago
  What is the problem with that? Besides for most people to be able to watch Netflix, some people will need to make Netflix. If there aren't enough people to make Netflix, something else will be made but at the end of the day there is no way nobody will do anything - if nothing else, people will be bored and actively want to do something.
  - chmod775 7y ago
    There's nothing better than boredom for inspiration and motivation.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      You seem to be under the assumption that the masses will find inspiration and motivation to do things you don't find disagreeable. I'm emphatically for people having the resources to pursue whatever the heck the want (even if that's sitting around drinking beer) but I think that most of the UBI crowd is out of touch with how the people who will most benefit from UBI will use their newfound freedom. Covering poor people's housing and food expenses isn't going to magically make them want to spend their time acting upper middle class. You give people freedom and they will act how they want, not necessarily how you want. I'd still call that a win but many will not.
      - Crinus 7y ago
        FWIW i'd also call that a win... but perhaps i do not see what could possibly go wrong :-P
jankotek 7y ago
What makes you think that money would be well spend? I think most people would still sit on their asses watching netflix... now with a fancy job title and paycheck. This butterfly is amazing and with good story, crowdfunding should be doable. Also Bay area already spends several billions on environmental protections, why this budget did not cover this project?
- pvaldes 7y ago
  Crowfunding here is a problem, because the animal is rare, beautiful and desired by collectors, and anybody less well-intentioned than this man could collect the funds and then breed the butterflies with the only purpose of sell it preserved on internet later. Even if 50% of rare butterflies killed and sold would be better for the species than having no butterflies at all, it poses some legal conflicts and dangers for the wild population, would be trading of a rare species. With big butterflies cames a big responsability
  - pvaldes 7y ago
    Update: it seems that fortunately is just locally rare in the city, so I'm wrong and the former does not apply.
stevespang 7y ago
Like your arrogant post was also a waste of your time, eh ? Some people just want to give back to the world.

_carl_jung 7y ago

Fantastic. Makes me want to see what I can do to benefit the Scottish ecosystem just a little. I've heard planting a patch of wildflowers in your garden is a good start.

Angostura 7y ago
I volunteer with what used to be the British Trust for Conservation Volunteers - here's the Scottish section https://www.tcv.org.uk/scotland/ https://www.tcv.org.uk/scotland/ I get to work with some very knowledgeable people, wade around chest-high in pond waders and use a chainsaw.
JulianMorrison 7y ago
Plant natives that are suited to your soil type and support bees. Wildflowers might not be good because they generally need less-fertile soil than a tended garden. Also put out bee houses and bird nesting sites, and leave autumn leaf fall in situ overwinter as a place for critters to hibernate.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  It also needs tending if you are to prevent thistles, nettles and brambles etc dominating. We have a spot with native wild species, and it's a lovely little insect and bird oasis, but there's some constant control required. Far less than much gardening or tending a perfect lawn certainly, but not maintenance free. We made a point of not having blackberries in the mix, but nature intervened and some bird must have planted one for us. If only they were easier to get shot of...
- stinos 7y ago
  and support bees And all other pollinating species as well, there's way more than just bees :) But good adivce about native plants: around here there's a bit of a hype in certain circles and people are all over what they call 'bee plants' but forget that non-native plants which happen to have pretty flowers usually do not provide anything but nectar for a couple of generalist species, so not all native ones, plus don't take part in the reproduction cycle because they aren't wanted food for the caterpillars. To get native plants, which support the most biodiversity, essentially the best thing you can do in a lot of situations is: not too much. Leave your lawn grow, current herbs (if any) will develop and other will fly in as seeds. Then for instance mow once in spring and once at the end of the summer (hard to tell eaxctly, depends on what grows currently and soil type). Remove what you mow: otherwise the nutrients make it back into the soil so the fast-growing plants which thrive on nitrogen (grass, nettles) get a jumpstart while the slower growing ones (most flowering ones) don't get a chance and won't get enough space and light. Don't mow everything at once, you'd take away shelter and housing for may fauna. Likewise be sure to leave pathches uncut during winter in order to e.g. not get rid of the eggs of butterflies. After one or more years you should see transition into a native meadow i.e. also flowering herbs instead of just grass.

crispinb 7y ago

What a splendid story. Good on him.

pvaldes 7y ago

Is interesting that there are two species repopulated here, not one, but the most interesting of both is disregarded. Aristolochia is easy to culture, even if it grows like a climbing tangled mess. If you want to do something similar in your garden do it, will be a rewarding activity, but remember that this plant should not be touched with bare hands frequently. Neither be drank. Is claimed by chinese medecine as having some properties as herbal tea but in fact it contains Aristolochic acids, that are known as carcinogenic and nephrotoxic substances. Renal failure is perfectly possible. Enjoying this strange mottled creature with your eyes is perfectly safe. For the rest, use garden gloves.

jankotek 7y ago

I searched a bit. This species is not endangered, it is spread over CA, just very very rare in SF. (Also there might be a subspecies, not really sure). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battus_philenor_hirsuta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battus_philenor_hirsuta https://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Battus-philenor https://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Battus-philenor

vectorEQ 7y ago

i am happy theres alteast some people concerned and working for our environment instead of passing stupid laws and doing fk all. it's not hard to make your yard or environment more friendly for the local wildlife, and its super important to do so with current conditions. for example in my country, even in 'protected' areas, insect populations are down by as much as 85%!. Thats just because people are a bit lazy and put pavement in their backyards instead of some simple grass and flowers. take time for your environment, not for yourself, but for the next generation of people to be able to enjoy life. don't expect government or politics to resolve such an issue, they are only out for money and forever hampered by budget issues and childish disagreements between politicians.

Myraly 7y ago

watch Netflix

slics 7y ago

We have come to a realization that in order for one to be considered of importance, one must own and get paid a large amount of wealth and income. Question is, why can’t the value of giving be considered of same importance? Giving can be any services, time, materials or more importantly your experience and your honest to god effort to provide help.

gchamonlive 7y ago
Because of control. Wealth and income are easier to control than what you describe. So the society is built around worshiping and paying certain figures so everyone else gets caught up in this loop in hopes of getting where these mediatic figures are.
mikestew 7y ago
Question is, why can’t the value of giving be considered of same importance? Entire books have been written, entire philosophical careers made from just such a question. Me, I think it is a reflection on what we as individuals think important. And the votes are in: we vote money and power. Not a lot of comic books about the quiet Zen master tending to her students for thirty years.

anherome21003 7y ago

Whose sperm did he use?

anotheryou 7y ago

If there was no catastrophic population collapse, how do more butterflies in the wild help to reintroduce the species? I'd think they'd eat all of the last of those plants and that's it. And if it was catastrophic collapse it should be able to bounce back from the few remaining or from surrounding populations, no?