7 ms·

A bit OT, but related: there are no cheap, simple, FOSS mp3 players. It used to be that you could get a Sansa which was flashable with Rockbox¹, had a decent

A bit OT, but related: there are no cheap, simple, FOSS mp3 players. It used to be that you could get a Sansa which was flashable with Rockbox¹, had a decent battery life, cost around US$30 and would take SD cards. Those options have now disappeared and been replaced with devices that do not have enough memory to be flashed with Rockbox. The default OS on these is terrible compared to Rockbox. Would love it if someone would make a simple player which was controllable by the user. 1. https://www.rockbox.org/ https://www.rockbox.org/

xtagon 7y ago
Agreed! My Sansa Clip+ is still going strong (magically, the battery still works after all this time) and thanks to Rockbox it can do hundreds of things it couldn't do originally.
squarefoot 7y ago
I have the exact same problem: two (Rockboxed) Sansa Clip Zips I've taken everywhere for years, from snowy mountains to the beach; one is already dead and one about to take its final breath. They're not available anymore for purchase and the few used ones remaining in still good condition are sold ridiculously overpriced. To me there's only one solution: Either develop a a player from scratch or port a subset of Rockbox (no games, FX, etc.) on a small SBC plus added display, DAC, SD and LiPo circuitry. The SBC could well be the ESP32 which would add wireless functionality; *Pi and other Linux boards would be tremendously overkill for the task. Shouldn't be that hard for skilled developers, and it would surely sell among those of us who don't want to use a cellphone.
- andai 7y ago
  Why don't you want to use a cellphone? Privacy/surveillance and/or stimulation addiction? I miss my old mp3 players and RockBoxed iPod classic, and I've been meaning to get rid of my cell phone as well. Really I'd prefer a pocket computer to a cell phone, surprised there isn't anything like that for sale.
  - serf 7y ago
    my reason : phones (mostly) make lousy MP3 players. high battery use, bad DACs, and clumsy interfaces. There are exceptions, but not many. Single purpose devices that are designed to do a specific thing just work better -- go figure.
  - squarefoot 7y ago
    "Why don't you want to use a cellphone? Privacy/surveillance and/or stimulation addiction?" Pretty much all of this, plus not risking a device that I have to rely on for communications. Each of my Sansa players fell like a dozen times without getting a single scratch because they were very light and the screen was small and sturdy; had I used a cellphone I would probably have destroyed at least its screen multiple times or ruined it from prolonged exposition to salty air at the sea. Also I don't use smartphones due to the above points, and I still have to see a traditional phone with a decent player (and a decent camera, but that's another story). The PinePhone might change this, however. Silently waiting for it to hit the market.
    - frabbit 7y ago
      That's pretty much it on all points for me: light and small with a sturdy plastic case meant that dropping it was not disastrous. Am definitely interested in the PinePhone, but suspect that its dimensions will mean that I shall be restricted in not using it while running/cycling and (more importantly for me) as a cheap audiobook player that I fall asleep to in bed and occasionally drop out of the bed onto the floor or sleep on top of.
      - squarefoot 7y ago
        A hint for the folks at pine64: please take into consideration the PinePod :)
        tllim 7y ago
        Check on my response :-)
  - 7y ago
- DanBC 7y ago
  I have loved all my Sansa MP3 players, but I find my current Sandisk Clip Jam a bit annoying for some things (very long files names; playlisting; working out what fields it sorts on and why). It won't take rockbox. If you want a cheap device to run rockbox... > Either develop a a player from scratch or port a subset of Rockbox (no games, FX, etc.) on a small SBC plus added display, DAC, SD and LiPo circuitry. The SBC could well be the ESP32 which would add wireless functionality; *Pi and other Linux boards would be tremendously overkill for the task. Shouldn't be that hard for skilled developers, and it would surely sell among those of us who don't want to use a cellphone. ...this feels like it's going to end up as being an expensive device. There are a bunch of other MP3 players available from companies like FIIO, Cowon, Shanling or others. Would you be able to build something that competes with these? https://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/Digital_Audio_Players.463/?sort=4a&am3sid=tc49ts9uj1l74l1mjuo8d25k80#guide_result https://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/Digital_Audio_Play... EDIT: Thinking about it, if you had braille on the buttons and a clear simple layout you could push it to both markets: people who want a hackable MP3 player, and people who want an accessible mp3 player for things like audio books. (Which is something my Clip Jam is not great for).
  - frabbit 7y ago
    Just looking at your link the price of those is astoundingly high. It seems like they've taken a modest tool and sought to turn it into some sort of Veblen-good by replacing plastic cases and mechanical buttons with high res touchscreens and aluminum cases. The rockbox-compatible sansas (and earlier cowons) were: 1. cheap (circa 30 bucks) 2. very small (I just measured my Clip Zip as: 5cm x 3cm x 1cm ) 3. very light 4. has an SD slot (I don't know its max supported size but 32GB works fine for my audiobooks) 5. is easily flashable with rockbox
    - benologist 7y ago
      There's a lot of funky semi-open handheld retro gaming devices that might repurpose if you're into buttons - https://obscurehandhelds.com/ https://obscurehandhelds.com/
      - 7y ago
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  > They're not available anymore for purchase and the few used ones remaining in still good condition are sold ridiculously overpriced. Thanks! I have one in original packaging somewhere. Bought it to give away but never did for various reasons.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jayd16 7y ago
These days you can get a cheap AOSP phone and run a lot more so I'm not that surprised this stuff is dying off.
- ksangeelee 7y ago
  This what I did to replace my iRiver running Rockbox. One problem to watch out for with cheap phones is that the audio can be noisy, even if only when charging, which will be particularly annoying when listening to audio books or talks. I found an Android app called MortPlayer which is very close to Rockbox in terms of functions and configurability. It hasn't been updated in a years, but still works well.
- frabbit 7y ago
  None of those are small. And they are not that cheap either. I think this is an obvious market opportunity -- small, cheap, open devices doing one thing well. No need for massive screens, touch screens , just a couple of buttons, a battery, DAC, USB and headphone jack, SD slot. I am agnostic on bluetooth support, not a deal breaker for me without it, but if it did not add too much to the price, then sure.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    I think that market opportunity is well covered, except for the "open" part. Gadget sites are overflowing with cheap and small music playing devices with those parts.
    - frabbit 7y ago
      I disagree. The F/OSS part is the most important. Rockbox allowed an incredible degree of customization. For something like a music/audiobook player personal tastes in interaction with the a small device mean that configurability is key. That, I suspect is why there are only larger devices with loads more buttons and touchscreens available. The ability to set timeouts and restart from last position on power-on, led light-level, sort-order etc made devices supported by them something that I could use. I have tried various Alibaba sourced devices that were in the US$20-50 range and none of them had the right form-factor and customizability.
_emacsomancer_ 7y ago
I think at this point, probably getting a rockboxable ipod is a better valuable proposition than trying to find a viable sansa device (I still have a working sansa clip that I use, and hopefully it'll last for a while).
rahimnathwani 7y ago
What's wrong with the Xduoo X3? It works with Rockbox[0], has a monochrome OLED screen, can take 2 MicroSD cards, and has two 3.5mm sockets: one for line out, and one for headphones. The only thing I don't like about it is the headphone socket, which is prone to fail. It feels tight on insertion/removal, and the extra force can eventually cause it to lose connection with the mainboard. They cost about $100 new, or half that used.
- steve19 7y ago
  That looks like a pretty good option. The downside is the price and it looks at least twice the size and weigh of thr SanDisk players.
  - rahimnathwani 7y ago
    Yeah it feels at least twice as heavy as the Sansa. Maybe even heavier.
- frabbit 7y ago
  It is HUUUUGGGEEE :)
- naraic0o 7y ago
  i have one called the "agptek rocker", it has basic rockbox support but a pretty leaky cheap lcd. i like that it has bluetooth, but i don't believe it's supported yet in rockbox. it's available under various other names but i believe it can be had from about 50usd. it's quite interesting with more modern rockbox supported pmps, rockbox is run as an SDL program stuck into the modified linux firmware. this device is moderately powerful with a 1GHz MIPS ingenic x1000 CPU. fun to tinker with. fiio has some nice devices (some with RB support, e.g. the M3K), too. but i wish they had bluetooth. i guess it's not cool with audiophiles so intentionally excluded.
- nzgrover 7y ago
  Is there such a thing as this with Spotify support?
blihp 7y ago
When it's released, the PinePhone should provide a good platform for mp3 and other media. If all you want it for is music, disable all the wireless (both for security and max battery life) and you've basically got an open source iPod touch with a microSD slot for $150. Seems like a natural 'stripped down' distro/image use case for the device.
ZoomZoomZoom 7y ago
Sansa wasn't FOSS, it was just supported by the community and was killed by the complete lack of vendor interest. Now there's AGPT Rocker/Benji T6, which can be flashed with Rockbox. For how long it's a viable option, we don't know. I don't know of anything really open by design in the field. It's really disheartening.
- frabbit 7y ago
  True about Sansa not being FOSS, but it was at least flashable with FOSS due to the effort of the Rockbox community. I looked at the AGPT Rocker, but again, it's way too large (IMO) for its simple function. And needlessly expensive. Here's hoping someone tries to fill the market hole.
fnord77 7y ago
Ipodlinux? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPodLinux https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPodLinux
ReverseCold 7y ago
If the device can't connect to the internet and therefore doesn't have tracking/etc, does it need to be FOSS?
- bArray 7y ago
  The ability to make contributions to improving hardware and software is important. Perhaps I want my MP3 player to support a new audio codec, or to display a large clock, or to track my steps when I go for a walk - you get the point. When it's open source, I'm able to make these changes, or use the work of others.
bArray 7y ago
That's my hopes for PineTime, I would love for it to be a standalone "fitness tracker" and MP3 player rolled into one. It's a very nice price point for a watch to hack with. All it would need is an ESP32, IMU, heart rate sensor, micro SD card reader, audio jack, LiPo and touch display. Make it work with the Arduino IDE and things get very exciting for hack-ability. Honestly, the watch makes me more excited than the phone.
smcleod 7y ago
Oh those were FANTASTIC! I used to buy them, put Rockbox on them and give them as Christmas and Birthday gifts - really good audio quality, battery life and the perfect size for the price.
tllim 7y ago
I am TL Lim, PINE64 community founder. The PineTime watch using NORDIC nRF52832, thos chip has i2s output and do you thinks this SoC good enough for an open source MP3 plater just like Sansa Clip?If the answer is positive, I can pass some PineTime devkit to RockBox developer to try out, then just redesign the schematic with audio DAC plus phone amp and a suitable touch screen case. Please note that this is just an exploration, we are currently fully loaded with various projects. P/S: don't mind the PinePod name :-)

xtagon 7y ago

Agreed! My Sansa Clip+ is still going strong (magically, the battery still works after all this time) and thanks to Rockbox it can do hundreds of things it couldn't do originally.

squarefoot 7y ago

I have the exact same problem: two (Rockboxed) Sansa Clip Zips I've taken everywhere for years, from snowy mountains to the beach; one is already dead and one about to take its final breath. They're not available anymore for purchase and the few used ones remaining in still good condition are sold ridiculously overpriced. To me there's only one solution: Either develop a a player from scratch or port a subset of Rockbox (no games, FX, etc.) on a small SBC plus added display, DAC, SD and LiPo circuitry. The SBC could well be the ESP32 which would add wireless functionality; *Pi and other Linux boards would be tremendously overkill for the task. Shouldn't be that hard for skilled developers, and it would surely sell among those of us who don't want to use a cellphone.

andai 7y ago
Why don't you want to use a cellphone? Privacy/surveillance and/or stimulation addiction? I miss my old mp3 players and RockBoxed iPod classic, and I've been meaning to get rid of my cell phone as well. Really I'd prefer a pocket computer to a cell phone, surprised there isn't anything like that for sale.
- serf 7y ago
  my reason : phones (mostly) make lousy MP3 players. high battery use, bad DACs, and clumsy interfaces. There are exceptions, but not many. Single purpose devices that are designed to do a specific thing just work better -- go figure.
- squarefoot 7y ago
  "Why don't you want to use a cellphone? Privacy/surveillance and/or stimulation addiction?" Pretty much all of this, plus not risking a device that I have to rely on for communications. Each of my Sansa players fell like a dozen times without getting a single scratch because they were very light and the screen was small and sturdy; had I used a cellphone I would probably have destroyed at least its screen multiple times or ruined it from prolonged exposition to salty air at the sea. Also I don't use smartphones due to the above points, and I still have to see a traditional phone with a decent player (and a decent camera, but that's another story). The PinePhone might change this, however. Silently waiting for it to hit the market.
  - frabbit 7y ago
    That's pretty much it on all points for me: light and small with a sturdy plastic case meant that dropping it was not disastrous. Am definitely interested in the PinePhone, but suspect that its dimensions will mean that I shall be restricted in not using it while running/cycling and (more importantly for me) as a cheap audiobook player that I fall asleep to in bed and occasionally drop out of the bed onto the floor or sleep on top of.
    - squarefoot 7y ago
      A hint for the folks at pine64: please take into consideration the PinePod :)
      - tllim 7y ago
        Check on my response :-)
- 7y ago
DanBC 7y ago
I have loved all my Sansa MP3 players, but I find my current Sandisk Clip Jam a bit annoying for some things (very long files names; playlisting; working out what fields it sorts on and why). It won't take rockbox. If you want a cheap device to run rockbox... > Either develop a a player from scratch or port a subset of Rockbox (no games, FX, etc.) on a small SBC plus added display, DAC, SD and LiPo circuitry. The SBC could well be the ESP32 which would add wireless functionality; *Pi and other Linux boards would be tremendously overkill for the task. Shouldn't be that hard for skilled developers, and it would surely sell among those of us who don't want to use a cellphone. ...this feels like it's going to end up as being an expensive device. There are a bunch of other MP3 players available from companies like FIIO, Cowon, Shanling or others. Would you be able to build something that competes with these? https://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/Digital_Audio_Players.463/?sort=4a&am3sid=tc49ts9uj1l74l1mjuo8d25k80#guide_result https://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/Digital_Audio_Play... EDIT: Thinking about it, if you had braille on the buttons and a clear simple layout you could push it to both markets: people who want a hackable MP3 player, and people who want an accessible mp3 player for things like audio books. (Which is something my Clip Jam is not great for).
- frabbit 7y ago
  Just looking at your link the price of those is astoundingly high. It seems like they've taken a modest tool and sought to turn it into some sort of Veblen-good by replacing plastic cases and mechanical buttons with high res touchscreens and aluminum cases. The rockbox-compatible sansas (and earlier cowons) were: 1. cheap (circa 30 bucks) 2. very small (I just measured my Clip Zip as: 5cm x 3cm x 1cm ) 3. very light 4. has an SD slot (I don't know its max supported size but 32GB works fine for my audiobooks) 5. is easily flashable with rockbox
  - benologist 7y ago
    There's a lot of funky semi-open handheld retro gaming devices that might repurpose if you're into buttons - https://obscurehandhelds.com/ https://obscurehandhelds.com/
    - 7y ago
Scoundreller 7y ago
> They're not available anymore for purchase and the few used ones remaining in still good condition are sold ridiculously overpriced. Thanks! I have one in original packaging somewhere. Bought it to give away but never did for various reasons.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

jayd16 7y ago

These days you can get a cheap AOSP phone and run a lot more so I'm not that surprised this stuff is dying off.

ksangeelee 7y ago
This what I did to replace my iRiver running Rockbox. One problem to watch out for with cheap phones is that the audio can be noisy, even if only when charging, which will be particularly annoying when listening to audio books or talks. I found an Android app called MortPlayer which is very close to Rockbox in terms of functions and configurability. It hasn't been updated in a years, but still works well.
frabbit 7y ago
None of those are small. And they are not that cheap either. I think this is an obvious market opportunity -- small, cheap, open devices doing one thing well. No need for massive screens, touch screens , just a couple of buttons, a battery, DAC, USB and headphone jack, SD slot. I am agnostic on bluetooth support, not a deal breaker for me without it, but if it did not add too much to the price, then sure.
- icebraining 7y ago
  I think that market opportunity is well covered, except for the "open" part. Gadget sites are overflowing with cheap and small music playing devices with those parts.
  - frabbit 7y ago
    I disagree. The F/OSS part is the most important. Rockbox allowed an incredible degree of customization. For something like a music/audiobook player personal tastes in interaction with the a small device mean that configurability is key. That, I suspect is why there are only larger devices with loads more buttons and touchscreens available. The ability to set timeouts and restart from last position on power-on, led light-level, sort-order etc made devices supported by them something that I could use. I have tried various Alibaba sourced devices that were in the US$20-50 range and none of them had the right form-factor and customizability.

_emacsomancer_ 7y ago

I think at this point, probably getting a rockboxable ipod is a better valuable proposition than trying to find a viable sansa device (I still have a working sansa clip that I use, and hopefully it'll last for a while).

rahimnathwani 7y ago

What's wrong with the Xduoo X3? It works with Rockbox[0], has a monochrome OLED screen, can take 2 MicroSD cards, and has two 3.5mm sockets: one for line out, and one for headphones. The only thing I don't like about it is the headphone socket, which is prone to fail. It feels tight on insertion/removal, and the extra force can eventually cause it to lose connection with the mainboard. They cost about $100 new, or half that used.

steve19 7y ago
That looks like a pretty good option. The downside is the price and it looks at least twice the size and weigh of thr SanDisk players.
- rahimnathwani 7y ago
  Yeah it feels at least twice as heavy as the Sansa. Maybe even heavier.
frabbit 7y ago
It is HUUUUGGGEEE :)
naraic0o 7y ago
i have one called the "agptek rocker", it has basic rockbox support but a pretty leaky cheap lcd. i like that it has bluetooth, but i don't believe it's supported yet in rockbox. it's available under various other names but i believe it can be had from about 50usd. it's quite interesting with more modern rockbox supported pmps, rockbox is run as an SDL program stuck into the modified linux firmware. this device is moderately powerful with a 1GHz MIPS ingenic x1000 CPU. fun to tinker with. fiio has some nice devices (some with RB support, e.g. the M3K), too. but i wish they had bluetooth. i guess it's not cool with audiophiles so intentionally excluded.
nzgrover 7y ago
Is there such a thing as this with Spotify support?

blihp 7y ago

When it's released, the PinePhone should provide a good platform for mp3 and other media. If all you want it for is music, disable all the wireless (both for security and max battery life) and you've basically got an open source iPod touch with a microSD slot for $150. Seems like a natural 'stripped down' distro/image use case for the device.

ZoomZoomZoom 7y ago

Sansa wasn't FOSS, it was just supported by the community and was killed by the complete lack of vendor interest. Now there's AGPT Rocker/Benji T6, which can be flashed with Rockbox. For how long it's a viable option, we don't know. I don't know of anything really open by design in the field. It's really disheartening.

frabbit 7y ago
True about Sansa not being FOSS, but it was at least flashable with FOSS due to the effort of the Rockbox community. I looked at the AGPT Rocker, but again, it's way too large (IMO) for its simple function. And needlessly expensive. Here's hoping someone tries to fill the market hole.

fnord77 7y ago

Ipodlinux? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPodLinux https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPodLinux

ReverseCold 7y ago

If the device can't connect to the internet and therefore doesn't have tracking/etc, does it need to be FOSS?

bArray 7y ago
The ability to make contributions to improving hardware and software is important. Perhaps I want my MP3 player to support a new audio codec, or to display a large clock, or to track my steps when I go for a walk - you get the point. When it's open source, I'm able to make these changes, or use the work of others.

bArray 7y ago

That's my hopes for PineTime, I would love for it to be a standalone "fitness tracker" and MP3 player rolled into one. It's a very nice price point for a watch to hack with. All it would need is an ESP32, IMU, heart rate sensor, micro SD card reader, audio jack, LiPo and touch display. Make it work with the Arduino IDE and things get very exciting for hack-ability. Honestly, the watch makes me more excited than the phone.

smcleod 7y ago

Oh those were FANTASTIC! I used to buy them, put Rockbox on them and give them as Christmas and Birthday gifts - really good audio quality, battery life and the perfect size for the price.

tllim 7y ago

I am TL Lim, PINE64 community founder. The PineTime watch using NORDIC nRF52832, thos chip has i2s output and do you thinks this SoC good enough for an open source MP3 plater just like Sansa Clip?If the answer is positive, I can pass some PineTime devkit to RockBox developer to try out, then just redesign the schematic with audio DAC plus phone amp and a suitable touch screen case. Please note that this is just an exploration, we are currently fully loaded with various projects. P/S: don't mind the PinePod name :-)