4 ms·

Warning. Regulation almost always favors incumbents.

by aj7 7y ago

i_am_proteus 7y ago
Microsoft President: Congress, please dig me the deepest, widest moat possible.
Barrin92 7y ago
This argument is always repeated within the first ten minutes of these discussions, but I don't really understand why anyone assumes that competition is somehow the panacea to every problem on the planet. I don't want ten unregulated facebooks who all leak my data, I want one facebook that plays by reasonable rules. The dynamics of social networks which don't deliver value if they're fragmented has made the competition focus obsolete. When Zuckerberg makes this point he is obviously speaking in his self-interest but he is absolutely right and the dominance of his platform proves it. The world isn't better off if half of the information is on bing and half of the information is on google, the world is better off if those large companies which do deliver benefits to end consumers by virtue of their centralisation are bound by law to implement reasonable standards.
- whiteflame7000 7y ago
  Competition is the fundamental of Capitalism. Capitalism becomes cronyism without fair competition. Edit: Downvoters please elucidate?
  - colejohnson66 7y ago
    Meta comment: The rules ask us to please not ask about downvotes; It distracts from the discussion. As for why you’re being downvoted, it usually means people don’t agree with you (not that you’re wrong). However, we’re not supposed to downvote simply because we disagree here, but it happens. And seeing you’re a “green” account, it could also just be people who downvote all new users (yes, those exist).
- markus_zhang 7y ago
  Well the thing is, if you want one facebook that plays by reasonable rules, creating a few competitors might actually help to achieve the goal.
- rayiner 7y ago
  > This argument is always repeated within the first ten minutes of these discussions, but I don't really understand why anyone assumes that competition is somehow the panacea to every problem on the planet. Competitive markets are the closest thing we have to a panacea for every problem. There’s lots of things the US and Europe don’t agree on. But one thing they do agree on is deregulation to enable competition. That’s why even Macron in France is trying to privatize SNCF. That’s why Denmark abolished its version of the FCC. That’s why nearly every Western European country has deregulated markets for wholesale electricity, allocates public airwaves through auctions, etc. Thats why Vietnam, which is still technically a Marxist-Leninist country, has 95% of people supporting market capitalism: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/03/13/vietnam-capitalism-global-post/70261770 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/03/13/vietnam.... That is not to say that market failures don’t exist. But we should think extremely hard before we try non-market solutions, identifying exactly why the market isn’t working and addressing those specific issues in the least invasive way.
  - whiteflame7000 7y ago
    Idk who's downvoting all these things but it's clearly someone with Marxist ideologies trying to apply it to capitalism. Competition is essential not only for the economy but for human civilization. Humans do not want to be equal, they just want an equal playing field. Policies that fail to acknowledge that basic human element will always fail because they won't be able to stop people from cheating the system.
- pytester 7y ago
  This oversimplified "regulation is bad" idea is pushed by a lot of think tanks (e.g. CATO, americans for prosperity, freedomworks, heritage foundation) set up by the Koch brothers. They have close links with the media, which is why these weirdly specific views get parroted a lot. If you've ever read a story about the evils of hairdresser licensing (for instance), it's from them. They have been on a crusade against regulation since a lot of their fights with the environmental protection agency.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    You make it seem like some weird fringe view funded by a handful of people. To the contrary, it’s been the dominant mode of public policy since the 1980s across the whole western world. Reagan, Clinton, Thatcher, Howard, Harper, etc. Even Trudeau and Macron, who are ostensibly left-leaning, are doubling down on privatization and deregulation: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2016/nov/22/justin-trudeaus-giant-corporate-giveaway; https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2016/nov/... https://fee.org/articles/emmanuel-macron-is-surprisingly-pro-market-for-a-socialist-sometimes/ https://fee.org/articles/emmanuel-macron-is-surprisingly-pro... The top 10 countries in the Koch-funded Heritage Foundation economic freedom index doesn’t even include the US: https://www.heritage.org/index https://www.heritage.org/index. (It does however include the entire rest of the Anglosphere.)
    - entropea 7y ago
      >who are ostensibly left-leaning They absolutely are not. They're capitalists, neoliberals, in all senses. There are no left wing economic policies being created anywhere in the western world right now.
      - tptacek 7y ago
        They would have to be, because they favor deregulation. You can't define your way out of an argument. If "everyone in the western world" operates this way, you're making his point for him.
  - OCASM 7y ago
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  Competition does not solve every problem on the planet. But it does solve a huge amount of problems, so it is very important to make sure that some regulation target at solving a single problem will not bring that huge amount of problems into the world as a side effect. As a hint, when a large company asks for some regulation, it is very likely that it is of the kind that brings all those problems.
- thanatropism 7y ago
  > I don't want ten unregulated facebooks who all leak my data, I want one facebook that plays by reasonable rules. At this point you should be wondering if it should be run by the government.
- JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
  > The world isn't better off if half of the information is on bing and half of the information is on google The premise here is incorrect. The idea is all information would be available on both Google and Bing, and searchers are free to query their engine of choice.
- coding123 7y ago
  I don't understand why people think that data leakage is ONLY a problem for facebook and it's competition. If data leaks into an ad-tech company we can still compel them to delete it. All it requires is a good US version of the GDPR.

Warning. Regulation almost always favors incumbents.

by aj7 7y ago

Warning. Regulation almost always favors incumbents.

i_am_proteus 7y ago

Microsoft President: Congress, please dig me the deepest, widest moat possible.

Barrin92 7y ago

This argument is always repeated within the first ten minutes of these discussions, but I don't really understand why anyone assumes that competition is somehow the panacea to every problem on the planet. I don't want ten unregulated facebooks who all leak my data, I want one facebook that plays by reasonable rules. The dynamics of social networks which don't deliver value if they're fragmented has made the competition focus obsolete. When Zuckerberg makes this point he is obviously speaking in his self-interest but he is absolutely right and the dominance of his platform proves it. The world isn't better off if half of the information is on bing and half of the information is on google, the world is better off if those large companies which do deliver benefits to end consumers by virtue of their centralisation are bound by law to implement reasonable standards.

whiteflame7000 7y ago
Competition is the fundamental of Capitalism. Capitalism becomes cronyism without fair competition. Edit: Downvoters please elucidate?
- colejohnson66 7y ago
  Meta comment: The rules ask us to please not ask about downvotes; It distracts from the discussion. As for why you’re being downvoted, it usually means people don’t agree with you (not that you’re wrong). However, we’re not supposed to downvote simply because we disagree here, but it happens. And seeing you’re a “green” account, it could also just be people who downvote all new users (yes, those exist).
markus_zhang 7y ago
Well the thing is, if you want one facebook that plays by reasonable rules, creating a few competitors might actually help to achieve the goal.
rayiner 7y ago
> This argument is always repeated within the first ten minutes of these discussions, but I don't really understand why anyone assumes that competition is somehow the panacea to every problem on the planet. Competitive markets are the closest thing we have to a panacea for every problem. There’s lots of things the US and Europe don’t agree on. But one thing they do agree on is deregulation to enable competition. That’s why even Macron in France is trying to privatize SNCF. That’s why Denmark abolished its version of the FCC. That’s why nearly every Western European country has deregulated markets for wholesale electricity, allocates public airwaves through auctions, etc. Thats why Vietnam, which is still technically a Marxist-Leninist country, has 95% of people supporting market capitalism: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/03/13/vietnam-capitalism-global-post/70261770 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/03/13/vietnam.... That is not to say that market failures don’t exist. But we should think extremely hard before we try non-market solutions, identifying exactly why the market isn’t working and addressing those specific issues in the least invasive way.
- whiteflame7000 7y ago
  Idk who's downvoting all these things but it's clearly someone with Marxist ideologies trying to apply it to capitalism. Competition is essential not only for the economy but for human civilization. Humans do not want to be equal, they just want an equal playing field. Policies that fail to acknowledge that basic human element will always fail because they won't be able to stop people from cheating the system.
pytester 7y ago
This oversimplified "regulation is bad" idea is pushed by a lot of think tanks (e.g. CATO, americans for prosperity, freedomworks, heritage foundation) set up by the Koch brothers. They have close links with the media, which is why these weirdly specific views get parroted a lot. If you've ever read a story about the evils of hairdresser licensing (for instance), it's from them. They have been on a crusade against regulation since a lot of their fights with the environmental protection agency.
- rayiner 7y ago
  You make it seem like some weird fringe view funded by a handful of people. To the contrary, it’s been the dominant mode of public policy since the 1980s across the whole western world. Reagan, Clinton, Thatcher, Howard, Harper, etc. Even Trudeau and Macron, who are ostensibly left-leaning, are doubling down on privatization and deregulation: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2016/nov/22/justin-trudeaus-giant-corporate-giveaway; https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2016/nov/... https://fee.org/articles/emmanuel-macron-is-surprisingly-pro-market-for-a-socialist-sometimes/ https://fee.org/articles/emmanuel-macron-is-surprisingly-pro... The top 10 countries in the Koch-funded Heritage Foundation economic freedom index doesn’t even include the US: https://www.heritage.org/index https://www.heritage.org/index. (It does however include the entire rest of the Anglosphere.)
  - entropea 7y ago
    >who are ostensibly left-leaning They absolutely are not. They're capitalists, neoliberals, in all senses. There are no left wing economic policies being created anywhere in the western world right now.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      They would have to be, because they favor deregulation. You can't define your way out of an argument. If "everyone in the western world" operates this way, you're making his point for him.
- OCASM 7y ago
marcosdumay 7y ago
Competition does not solve every problem on the planet. But it does solve a huge amount of problems, so it is very important to make sure that some regulation target at solving a single problem will not bring that huge amount of problems into the world as a side effect. As a hint, when a large company asks for some regulation, it is very likely that it is of the kind that brings all those problems.
thanatropism 7y ago
> I don't want ten unregulated facebooks who all leak my data, I want one facebook that plays by reasonable rules. At this point you should be wondering if it should be run by the government.
JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
> The world isn't better off if half of the information is on bing and half of the information is on google The premise here is incorrect. The idea is all information would be available on both Google and Bing, and searchers are free to query their engine of choice.
coding123 7y ago
I don't understand why people think that data leakage is ONLY a problem for facebook and it's competition. If data leaks into an ad-tech company we can still compel them to delete it. All it requires is a good US version of the GDPR.