4 ms·

I'm 54. Have been in sw dev for 40 years. I have kept my skills (aws api / node.js / css / html5 / etc) up to the point were I am over qualified for many of the

by 68020 7y ago

I'm 54. Have been in sw dev for 40 years. I have kept my skills (aws api / node.js / css / html5 / etc) up to the point were I am over qualified for many of the positions (laid off 3 years back from IBM) I apply for. Before I updated my LinkedIn profile pic I received many interview invites. Now I get none. Recently I started looking at the people that these sw dev companies _actually_ hire. They ask for 3/5/10 years experience but I found that in almost every case (95%) the devs they hired were under 25, straight out of collage with 0 experience. Last year I applied for 300 positions, now I don't even bother looking to dev work anymore. I have 3 kids at home and we are close to bankruptcy. Let me be very clear here: The _only_ thing that matters in gaining employment in sw dev (in my city at least) is your age. Edit: Also should mention that I often offered (have no choice) to work for much less $ then what junior would be making.

lapnitnelav 7y ago
Sorry if what I'm about to say is rude, please file that under me being ignorant rather malicious. Given your struggles to get a job and your very valuable experience, what's holding you back from going as a contractor / setting up your own shop?
- 68020 7y ago
  That is the route I am now going. Until my last breath I'm going to build a sw company and hire 100's of people. Like all companies I'll have a page on my site that says how moral and inclusive we are except that we won't be hypocrites like most (all?) other sw companies. This is my delusional dream.
  - ilaksh 7y ago
    What I have found is that it can be much easier to find remote work that pays fairly poorly. Usually startups and the like. There is a lot of it. Can't afford to live in the US anymore but Mexico is working out pretty well.
  - PorterDuff 7y ago
    I've always liked the idea of a consulting firm that specialized in hiring old people. I wonder if there's enough work to keep something like that fed if one were to specialize in 'obsolete' tech and market at a national level. Heck, to the right client, that one i860 or C80 programmer might be worth gold. Either that, or just do a highly competent job at embedded programming generally.
WomanCanCode 7y ago
I'm a middle age female software developer and also found similar experience when I was in the job market recently. The software development positions generally are below 2 years, under 5 years and the senior position at 6-8 years. What do you do if you have 20 years of software development experience?
- gilbetron 7y ago
  Recently worked for a (bad) silicon valley YC company, and was shocked to learn that 6-8 years of experience is considered senior these days. Not enough experience at that point to really be senior, but I think there's such a desperate need for developers that they have to do that. To be clear, I've certainly met people in their 20s that have senior-level ability, but they are by far the exception.
  - georgemcbay 7y ago
    I agree with you that the "senior" title is passed out too easily, but as someone who is 46 this has been the case throughout my entire career, I don't think it is a new problem. In fact, the 6-8 years of experience you quote is far higher than I would have guessed if you asked me when the average company (incorrectly) starts handing out "senior" titles.
    - gilbetron 7y ago
      I definitely agree - more precisely, I meant that "6-8 years" is the time by which nearly all people have attained "senior" designation, even if they aren't that good. However, it used to be (in the places I worked, at least) that a person wasn't senior until at least 10 years of experience.
  - unicornmama 7y ago
    IIRC for those that make senior, five years to senior is about average at Google.
- auspex 7y ago
  I think you should start looking for jobs that are "developer adjacent". Product managers, technical marketing, sales engineer, solution architect. Jobs like presales engineers have higher salaries than developers, require 15+ years experience (dev preferred) and excellent soft skills.
PorterDuff 7y ago
"I'm 54. Have been in sw dev for 40 years.....Last year I applied for 300 positions,..." Being somewhat older than you, but bored, I think about taking up the oar again. My problem doubles down on yours in that my background is all in products with an expensive hardware component or workstation software, neither appears to be a growth industry. Aside from the inevitable well-meaning advice to become some sort of 'project manager', etc. I wonder if it makes any sense to hit the .gov job markets at all. Has anyone done that at an advanced age?
- 68020 7y ago
  My last few years at IBM were as a project manager at big corp. Besides the outright corruption, the new problems were that I was now competing against 6'4" 22yo MBAs fresh out of modeling school. They taught me how to analyse the underside of a bus real quick.
throwaway2393 7y ago
I had a very similar problem and ended up in the streets. The solution was to join a bootcamp, cut things from the resume and get a junior job. From here, you can leverage new connections to get a better job or a promotion. Joining a bootcamp makes it look like you are new to the field and will settle for an entry-level salary. This is a very extreme solution, but might help you solve this problem for several years. I feel bad for saying this, but my advice is to dye your hair, join a gym and take some years of your Facebook profile. Try to save some money to buy a car to do Uber, start a small IT consulting firm or get a job teaching. Most people will advice mild patches but they dont know what it's like to run out of money. I feel your pain.

by 68020 7y ago

lapnitnelav 7y ago

Sorry if what I'm about to say is rude, please file that under me being ignorant rather malicious. Given your struggles to get a job and your very valuable experience, what's holding you back from going as a contractor / setting up your own shop?

68020 7y ago
That is the route I am now going. Until my last breath I'm going to build a sw company and hire 100's of people. Like all companies I'll have a page on my site that says how moral and inclusive we are except that we won't be hypocrites like most (all?) other sw companies. This is my delusional dream.
- ilaksh 7y ago
  What I have found is that it can be much easier to find remote work that pays fairly poorly. Usually startups and the like. There is a lot of it. Can't afford to live in the US anymore but Mexico is working out pretty well.
- PorterDuff 7y ago
  I've always liked the idea of a consulting firm that specialized in hiring old people. I wonder if there's enough work to keep something like that fed if one were to specialize in 'obsolete' tech and market at a national level. Heck, to the right client, that one i860 or C80 programmer might be worth gold. Either that, or just do a highly competent job at embedded programming generally.

WomanCanCode 7y ago

I'm a middle age female software developer and also found similar experience when I was in the job market recently. The software development positions generally are below 2 years, under 5 years and the senior position at 6-8 years. What do you do if you have 20 years of software development experience?

gilbetron 7y ago
Recently worked for a (bad) silicon valley YC company, and was shocked to learn that 6-8 years of experience is considered senior these days. Not enough experience at that point to really be senior, but I think there's such a desperate need for developers that they have to do that. To be clear, I've certainly met people in their 20s that have senior-level ability, but they are by far the exception.
- georgemcbay 7y ago
  I agree with you that the "senior" title is passed out too easily, but as someone who is 46 this has been the case throughout my entire career, I don't think it is a new problem. In fact, the 6-8 years of experience you quote is far higher than I would have guessed if you asked me when the average company (incorrectly) starts handing out "senior" titles.
  - gilbetron 7y ago
    I definitely agree - more precisely, I meant that "6-8 years" is the time by which nearly all people have attained "senior" designation, even if they aren't that good. However, it used to be (in the places I worked, at least) that a person wasn't senior until at least 10 years of experience.
- unicornmama 7y ago
  IIRC for those that make senior, five years to senior is about average at Google.
auspex 7y ago
I think you should start looking for jobs that are "developer adjacent". Product managers, technical marketing, sales engineer, solution architect. Jobs like presales engineers have higher salaries than developers, require 15+ years experience (dev preferred) and excellent soft skills.

PorterDuff 7y ago

"I'm 54. Have been in sw dev for 40 years.....Last year I applied for 300 positions,..." Being somewhat older than you, but bored, I think about taking up the oar again. My problem doubles down on yours in that my background is all in products with an expensive hardware component or workstation software, neither appears to be a growth industry. Aside from the inevitable well-meaning advice to become some sort of 'project manager', etc. I wonder if it makes any sense to hit the .gov job markets at all. Has anyone done that at an advanced age?

68020 7y ago
My last few years at IBM were as a project manager at big corp. Besides the outright corruption, the new problems were that I was now competing against 6'4" 22yo MBAs fresh out of modeling school. They taught me how to analyse the underside of a bus real quick.

throwaway2393 7y ago

I had a very similar problem and ended up in the streets. The solution was to join a bootcamp, cut things from the resume and get a junior job. From here, you can leverage new connections to get a better job or a promotion. Joining a bootcamp makes it look like you are new to the field and will settle for an entry-level salary. This is a very extreme solution, but might help you solve this problem for several years. I feel bad for saying this, but my advice is to dye your hair, join a gym and take some years of your Facebook profile. Try to save some money to buy a car to do Uber, start a small IT consulting firm or get a job teaching. Most people will advice mild patches but they dont know what it's like to run out of money. I feel your pain.