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> While people in Zhuhai and Foshan and Guangzhou learned a second language Don't they all speak Cantonese/Mandarin Chinese?

alisonatwork 7y ago
It's complicated. Despite what CPC propaganda would have you believe, Cantonese and Mandarin are essentially different languages[0][1]. Even inside the Cantonese topolect, there are certain mutually unintellible dialects. A notable example is Taishanese, which is not mutually intelligible with Guangzhou or Hong Kong Cantonese, yet they speak it in Jiangmen which is a city just next to Zhuhai. On the east side of the river: Shenzhen, Dongguan and especially Huizhou has/had a lot of Hakka-speaking communities. Hakka is not mutually intelligible with either Cantonese or Mandarin. In the PRD there were also many other local village dialects that have largely died out today. The point is that in mainland China, the CPC mandated that everyone learn Mandarin (a "high class" version of the Beijing topolect) so that everyone in the country would have a common language. In China, Mandarin is called Putonghua which literally means "common language". It is the language of education and the lingua franca, but at home people still tend to speak their own language. The impression i get in Hong Kong is that many Hongkongers only speak Hong Kong Cantonese, or if they do speak a second language it is English. Even ignoring the traditional/simplified difference in written Chinese, this lack of a common language can create a barrier for communication with Chinese on the mainland. [0] https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=21415 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=21415 [1] https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=42260 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=42260
- hkwedolfj 7y ago
  Fun facts I would like to add: 1. Even Cantonese in Guangzhou and Hong Kong is different. The way they formulate sentences makes it very easy to distinguish where one is from. For example, Guangzhou people like to say, “Handsome brother, I got a question.” For Hong Kong people, it just sounds weird to call someone you don’t know handsome brother. Although, this would sound perfectly normal in China. 2. Hong Kong/ Taiwan uses traditional Chinese, while mainland China uses simplified Chinese. Simplified Chinese was actually discouraged because it is considered shorthand; therefore, improper for formal writing.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    Handsome brother (or pretty woman) is more of a countryside thing. It isn’t uncommon to hear it in the big cities, but it immediately flags the speaker as a bumpkin. For us city folk, you hear it more often when touring (either from the local tour guides or between us ironically, but then I’m speaking as a foreigner).
    - baybal2 7y ago
      Hahaha I always get amazed by ability of locals guessing ones socioeconomic background just by looks. Allegedly locals can guess which major town around one fares from just by facial features.
      - novok 7y ago
        You can see it in SF, there is a certain Taishanese facial structure with many of the Chinese people there. They also call it Toisan themselves, which confuses the mandarin tech workers until you say Taishan.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  In Hong Kong 20 years ago maybe, but today the number of mandarin speakers is much greater. At least in the core downtown retail industry, you won’t even be considered for a job if you can’t speak mandarin, while anyone under 30 has gone to school in all three languages for their entire lives.

alisonatwork 7y ago

It's complicated. Despite what CPC propaganda would have you believe, Cantonese and Mandarin are essentially different languages[0][1]. Even inside the Cantonese topolect, there are certain mutually unintellible dialects. A notable example is Taishanese, which is not mutually intelligible with Guangzhou or Hong Kong Cantonese, yet they speak it in Jiangmen which is a city just next to Zhuhai. On the east side of the river: Shenzhen, Dongguan and especially Huizhou has/had a lot of Hakka-speaking communities. Hakka is not mutually intelligible with either Cantonese or Mandarin. In the PRD there were also many other local village dialects that have largely died out today. The point is that in mainland China, the CPC mandated that everyone learn Mandarin (a "high class" version of the Beijing topolect) so that everyone in the country would have a common language. In China, Mandarin is called Putonghua which literally means "common language". It is the language of education and the lingua franca, but at home people still tend to speak their own language. The impression i get in Hong Kong is that many Hongkongers only speak Hong Kong Cantonese, or if they do speak a second language it is English. Even ignoring the traditional/simplified difference in written Chinese, this lack of a common language can create a barrier for communication with Chinese on the mainland. [0] https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=21415 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=21415 [1] https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=42260 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=42260

hkwedolfj 7y ago
Fun facts I would like to add: 1. Even Cantonese in Guangzhou and Hong Kong is different. The way they formulate sentences makes it very easy to distinguish where one is from. For example, Guangzhou people like to say, “Handsome brother, I got a question.” For Hong Kong people, it just sounds weird to call someone you don’t know handsome brother. Although, this would sound perfectly normal in China. 2. Hong Kong/ Taiwan uses traditional Chinese, while mainland China uses simplified Chinese. Simplified Chinese was actually discouraged because it is considered shorthand; therefore, improper for formal writing.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  Handsome brother (or pretty woman) is more of a countryside thing. It isn’t uncommon to hear it in the big cities, but it immediately flags the speaker as a bumpkin. For us city folk, you hear it more often when touring (either from the local tour guides or between us ironically, but then I’m speaking as a foreigner).
  - baybal2 7y ago
    Hahaha I always get amazed by ability of locals guessing ones socioeconomic background just by looks. Allegedly locals can guess which major town around one fares from just by facial features.
    - novok 7y ago
      You can see it in SF, there is a certain Taishanese facial structure with many of the Chinese people there. They also call it Toisan themselves, which confuses the mandarin tech workers until you say Taishan.
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
In Hong Kong 20 years ago maybe, but today the number of mandarin speakers is much greater. At least in the core downtown retail industry, you won’t even be considered for a job if you can’t speak mandarin, while anyone under 30 has gone to school in all three languages for their entire lives.