52 ms·

Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

196 points by specifications 7y ago

notus 7y ago
Did we create a super-villain by ostracizing him for supporting Trump?
- vernie 7y ago
  No, this was this dork's trajectory the whole time.
  - kgraves 7y ago
    From an even wider angle, silicon valley is fuelling this dystopia under the veil of "solving difficult problems".
- cdumler 7y ago
  No, it's just: if you can't provide a solution, there is a lot of money to be made in prolonging the problem. The climate in the U.S. is xenophobic, so there will be dollars to be spent (wasted) on companies who sell technobabble.
  - akatechis 7y ago
    By technobabble do you mean all the tech companies that claim they are "changing the world" by whatever it is they are doing? I've seen so many "content platforms" that claim to be "revolutionizing" or "democratizing" or whatever other buzzword you like, access to data, when in reality, they're doing no such thing.
    - BubRoss 7y ago
      What is your point? That other people are doing it too? This is whataboutism 101.
- Axsuul 7y ago
  Why super-villain? This is a responsible alternative vs. building a monstrous, ugly wall that is a travesty to nature and could potentially save taxpayers billions. We still need to protect our borders but we need to do it in the most non-invasive way with technology.
  - webwielder2 7y ago
    Why do we need to protect our borders? Why not just let people live wherever they can afford?
    - dominotw 7y ago
      seems a bit offtopic flamewar I read a research finding somewhere that there are about 500million ppl who would move to US in very near future if they are allowed to move to USA.
    - paggle 7y ago
      Name one country with better-than-average standard of living that has opened its borders and thrived. There will always be a wall around something nice — either around your house, or your neighborhood, or your country.
      - drewrv 7y ago
        The United States itself had "open borders" for a long period of time. There was mass immigration from Ireland, Italy, and many other places and it worked out quite well for us. Even today, we have "open borders" within the US. People are free to move from from poor (or poorly run) communities to places with more opportunities and it's a win-win. Similarly Europe has 26 countries in the Shengen area. Some of the countries have a "better-than-average standard of living" and they're doing just fine.
        ThePawnBreak 7y ago
        > The United States itself had "open borders" for a long period of time. There was mass immigration from Ireland, Italy, and many other places and it worked out quite well for us. There was no welfare state back then, and the economic situation was vastly different. Also saying it went "quite well" looks over all of the ethnic tension that took decades to fix. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Americans#Discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Americans#Discrimination > Similarly Europe has 26 countries in the Shengen area. Some of the countries have a "better-than-average standard of living" and they're doing just fine. Heard about Brexit? The Romanians are coming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb1AkaKJL08 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb1AkaKJL08
- gotoeleven 7y ago
  Maybe this is too off topic for HN, but I'm genuinely curious what is the best argument for why it is bad/racist to enforce immigration laws? I've heard people argue that a wall won't be effective. But some people seem to have the view that immigration laws shouldn't be enforced at all and we should allow people to use whatever loopholes (refugee status, traveling w/ children) there are to get in and then not show up for their court hearing. Im genuinely puzzled that this is so controversial.
  - alkibiades 7y ago
    the argument is mostly that it gives people white guilt to enforce immigration because most of the immigrants are non-white. and the people supporting the unlimited migration don’t have to deal with the consequences themselves it also wins millions of future and current hispanic votes by pandering
  - jobigoud 7y ago
    I'll bite because I'm ambivalent about immigration laws. Why should people that just happen to be born in a third world country live a shitty life with no way out? You can't just say they have to do a revolution in their own country, not everyone is interested in activism, why should this be the fight of their life instead of stuff they actually want to do? You were born in a nice place by sheer luck. It's unfair. I like the idea of a fundamental human right to "mobility". In the grand scheme of things a human being should be able to move anywhere as long as they obey local laws, pay local taxes, etc.
    - vokep 7y ago
      >You were born in a nice place by sheer luck. It's unfair. Yes, thats life? Of course where there is abundance we ought to use it to fix the unfairness. But life is unfair. I think it comes down to where do we actually draw the line of abundance. Some feel we're well past it, enough that we shouldn't even have borders, others feel we aren't even close and ought to be quite selective of who gets to stay.
    - WillPostForFood 7y ago
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  No. I met Thiel a decade ago and he struck me as very reactionary then. While I admire his intellect and he had valid critiques of how government operates at this point in history I felt many of his arguments were facile and self-serving. I've moved quite a bit to the left since then, but that was my contemporaneous impression rather than my current opinion of him.
dpflan 7y ago
“I felt like there were not nearly enough high-tech companies working on defense problems in a way that was more similar to the Silicon Valley model of innovation rather than a traditional defense contract.” (Luckey) Is this true (not enough companies applying "SV innovation model" to "defense problems")?
- decebalus1 7y ago
  Sadly, it is true. We aren't creating a dystopia fast enough. We definitely need to do better.
- shadowmore 7y ago
  The traditional model in the defense sector is: - Military or gov't produce exact specifications for something - Contractors bid to create that something - The end product ends up being the result of macro-management and even sometimes micro-management from the very top, which would be the equivalent of SV tech startups being instructed on what to build by Oracle and Microsoft But since the military and gov't are open to working with independent parties when said parties come to them with an offer, Anduril and similar companies have more freedom to develop tech as they see fit and then go and sell it to the military/gov't, and judging by this article, with considerable success.
  - gnopgnip 7y ago
    How does palantir fit into this
    - ganoushoreilly 7y ago
      They sort of started out solving an internal problem and then took that domain knowledge to build their platform. Their success early on relied on being able to put together a really good presentation. I would hardly look at their tech as being extremely cutting edge though, they're simply a package solution with a decent enough outcome with minimal competition in what SV would consider an "unsexy" industry. Getting a foot in the door with Govt. Contracting is probably the hardest and most expensive part. Most won't go through the hoops and it creates fewer competitors or alternatives (as OP alludes to).
kgraves 7y ago
Interesting, why would Andreessen Horowitz fund evil, well I guess this is a perfect fit for why I detest venture capitalists.
- pstuart 7y ago
  > Interesting, why would Andreessen Horowitz fund evil It's tech. It could make lots of money. Evil is relative (/s).
- 4b11b4 7y ago
  I'm not sure capitalism depends on evil, good, or bad (ethics, morals).
- decebalus1 7y ago
  Probably for the same reason Fanta exists and IBM sold tech to the nazis.
karlp 7y ago
Say "Orwellian security company" "Virtual Wall" is not the only thing they do.
- dang 7y ago
  The submitted title ("Palmer Luckey's new startup, a virtual US/Mexico wall, valued $1B by A16Z") broke the site guidelines, which ask: "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." We've reverted it to the original now. Submitters: Rewriting titles has a massive effect on discussion, so please don't do that unless the original title is misleading or linkbait. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - mrguyorama 7y ago
    >misleading or linkbait Those are massively subjective concepts, especially in the modern political climate. Have you considered adding examples or further discussing this point in the guidelines?
    - filoleg 7y ago
      While that would be nice, I don't feel like in this scenario it would have mattered at all. The actual title of the article is pretty clearly neither misleading nor a linkbait.
    - dmix 7y ago
      It should be pretty obvious to anyone using the internet for long to identify what's flamebait. If you need examples just look at the political sections of Twitter and Reddit where all sense of civility and intellectual debate has been abandoned. Or look at the headlines of clickbait news sites like Buzzfeed and Vice which target that demographic and do the opposite. There's no shortage of examples kicking around.
      - mindcandy 7y ago
        It should be for a lot of people. But, for more than enough people, it’s not. And, even if it is obvious, the drama it promotes even among the knowledgable is a big negative I’d prefer to avoid on HN.
atemerev 7y ago
So basically a laser tripwire? Like for Roombas?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
4b11b4 7y ago
This dude's communication style reminds me of Trump. I don't know enough about people's research on communication styles and strategies, but I would assume Trump took most(?) of his style from someone else.
- pwinnski 7y ago
  It's difficult to suggest one known inspiration without tripping over Godwin.
cr0sh 7y ago
It's hearing things like this that make me regret having supported Luckey on his Kickstarter. I had followed him for a few years on the MTBS3D forum when he was experimenting with various HMD prototypes (usually modding the heck out of the Forte VFX-1). He just seemed like a kid with a dream, and the will and ability to make it happen - and potentially revive VR for "Round 2". I suppose he did do that, and while I didn't like the "sell-out" to FB and Zuck - I couldn't blame him, either. Then it seemed like things went downhill from there. I don't have any problem with someone being a republican or a conservative, but I can't and couldn't understand why someone would support a person like our current POTUS. To me, it would be similar to continue to voice support for Manson while saying "well, it isn't like he killed anybody himself, so it's ok" - umm, no - it's not ok. ...and now this. I sometimes wonder if we humans will ever get over this artificial border fetish we have. I don't have problems with property rights, to a certain level, but I'm not sure it has really worked well at the large scale level. All it has seemed to do is create some level of tension at best, and outright violence at worst. I am not certain that we as a species can continue on this path for much longer, not without some very terrible things occuring. So - while I would prefer a "monitored solution" to border control over physical imposing measures, my real preference would be for us to all work toward eliminating these national-level borders completely. Instead, it seems like we're going the opposite direction, even online, and erecting virtual barriers to separate us from each other, instead of working to understand each other and work together on solving our world problems.
- luckylion 7y ago
  > I sometimes wonder if we humans will ever get over this artificial border fetish we have. Sounds like you believe that humans are the only animals that get territorial.
  - rmilejczz 7y ago
    Do you strive to be more animalistic? That doesn’t seem like a very noble pursuit for a human being
    - luckylion 7y ago
PeterCorless 7y ago
How much of that money is going to go to back to help feed poor kids and communities recovering in war-torn Gondor? HUNH?
vlucas 7y ago
There was a really great podcast where Palmer was interviewed about this company and why he chose to focus on it: The Human Code - Anduril Industries & Oculus VR Founder Palmer Luckey (69 MINS) https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/turner-podcast-network/the-human-code-with-laurie-segall/e/58088888 https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/turner-podcast-network/the-... It might help shed some light on the "why" that many people here seem to be asking here in the comments.
- paulcnichols 7y ago
  This is indeed a really great podcast. I'm sympathetic to his points that 1) the US is falling behind and 2) that in a strong democracy policy plays a big role in shaping the technology.
  - ddnb 7y ago
    Is the US regarded as a "strong democracy"? Surely some can argue just how strong, especially with the effective 2-party system. It gets repeated a lot, the US being the greatest democracy and all, but that doesn't make it true per se.
    - m12k 7y ago
      Yeah, between the entrenched 2-party system, Citizen's United, gerrymandering, voter suppression (voter-ID laws, the war-on-drugs combined with felons not being eligible to vote, etc.), the politization of the supreme court and the complete dysfunction of Congress, I'd classify the US as a 'failing' democracy. Not 'failed' mind, you but well on its way. I'd put it about 2-3 democratic dysfunctions behind Turkey and 4-6 behind Russia.
    - IMTDb 7y ago
      > It gets repeated a lot, the US being the greatest democracy and all Absolutely no one is repeating that outside of the US itself
ganitarashid 7y ago
What is wrong with enforcing border security laws? Curious why you think less of him for supporting those efforts.
- pfisch 7y ago
  It is pretty easy to foresee monitoring technologies like this being used for awful purposes. I'm not a big fan of creating newer and better technological solutions to suppress poor people.
  - ganitarashid 7y ago
    Then how should border security be enforced in your opinion? Or should it not?
    - pfisch 7y ago
      We have had border security being enforced for over 100 years.
    - csb6 7y ago
      MLK said something along the lines of, there is no problem with just laws (such as those upholding border security), but there is a problem when they’re applied unjustly. There is nothing wrong, all other things being equal, with enforcing border security. I think this is where your perspective comes from. Nations have sovereignty. Therefore, they can enforce their borders. If all else actually was equal, it would be a sensible argument. However, this new “virtual border fence” does not exist in a vacuum. The current administration - and the prior administration - has ramped up immigration enforcement efforts, in many cases tearing apart families who have lived in the U.S. for many years, had kids, jobs, etc., causing immense pain. Billions and billions spent to remove hardworking residents from the country and place them back across an imaginary line. Why? Because “law and order”. How will your children sleep, if an illegal immigrant is working night shifts to send money back home to his struggling family? The response (e.g. ICE raids, children in prison camps separated from parents without medical care/showers/hygiene, increased enforcement causing more dangerous crossings resulting in drowning) is clearly disproportional to the crime, even if you see illegal immigration as criminal and unjust. The “virtual fence” exists in context with all of these other realities. Perhaps you can see why myself and the parent commenter aren’t exactly cheery about our nation’s innovative, synergistic solution to border enforcement. All of the unjust measures mentioned above (minus perhaps more ICE raids) will be easier than ever to do. “How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world / with such efficient surveillance measures in ‘t!” Even if you see the startling conditions/extensive surveillance measures as justified and deserved of people thrust into difficult circumstances beyond their control, the current administration is clearly incompetent and untrustworthy in the task of implementing such a border fence system. Do we really trust the people who separated parents and children without keeping track of which child belongs to which parents will use such a system in a just manner? I seriously doubt it, and therefore I doubt any argument implying that all enforcement measures can be justified because “order”. Breaking the law does not make you subhuman, and no new measure exists in a theoretical vacuum of just intentions.
cm2012 7y ago
Love these Lord of the Rings names.
Rebelgecko 7y ago
For various reasons, I'm slightly sketched out by pretty much every company I've heard of that is named after something from Lord of the Rings. Even when I don't think they're contributing to a dystopian surveillance state (à la Palantir and this one), you have the other HN front-page story about Mithril Capital being accused of mismanaging investor funds. Is there some weird self-selection that causes only certain types of people to name their companies that way? Edit: I was looking for a list of companies named after LOTR and apparently the link that connects all of them is that they're owned or heavily invested in by Peter Thiel.
- lacker 7y ago
  Five of them are related to Peter Thiel who I guess just likes to name companies that way. https://qz.com/1346926/the-hidden-logic-of-peter-thiels-lord-of-the-rings-inspired-company-names/ https://qz.com/1346926/the-hidden-logic-of-peter-thiels-lord... Founders Fund invested in Anduril but it wasn't Thiel directly, so this one is kind of one hop away. Maybe it's related.
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    I think I independently found that article right as you were replying. It's definitely a plausible connection.
  - CobrastanJorji 7y ago
    I propose that we refer to the companies related to Peter Thiel based around creepy surveillance stuff collectively as the "palantíri."
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
      I'd rather call them the Nazgul.
- dmm 7y ago
  Rivendell bicycle works is quirky but harmless.
atonse 7y ago
Yuck. It's like the perfect marriage of taking any remaining humanity out of law enforcement and add tons of bottomless greed to it. It's so very Peter Thiel-ish. I'd love to say I wish them well, but I hope this company goes out of business due to a public outrage. But they'll always find someone to sell to, like authoritarian governments, and make money hand-over-fist.
- golemiprague 7y ago
  Yeah, also when they took away the sword and replaced it with a gun it was so much less "humane", you lost all connection with the person you kill, how horrible. Just admit it, you don't like it because it goes against your politics, you don't want an effective immigration control for whatever reason. If it was you who had to use this technology to protect your house for example you wouldn't have any problem.
- voodoomagicman 7y ago
  I hope everyone involved with this company dies painfully
  - dang 7y ago
    You can't post like this here regardless of how strongly you disagree with someone or dislike them. Would you mind reviewing the site guidelines and using HN as intended? They include Be kind. That includes being kind even when others are not being kind. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- zootam 7y ago
  >It's so very Peter Thiel-ish. soon, all of the United State's defense companies will be named after stuff from Lord of the Rings
  - ENGNR 7y ago
    I bet they get angry every night over not owning ‘ring’ itself, it even plugs directly into law enforcement
sjg007 7y ago
This is probably how the wall should be built for the most part. It allows wildlife to freely roam but then uses AI to identify specific threats. This will probably save a lot of lives too. Then Trump can have his wall and we can all laugh that it is invisible but it will hopefully be effective for border security and environmentally friendly.
- Barrin92 7y ago
  >It allows wildlife to freely roam well good to know that the wildlife is going to have more privileges than the people. Truly a humanitarian technology company. We sure do live in interesting times.
  - sjg007 7y ago
    I mean this is if we "have" to have a wall.
hart_russell 7y ago
Good. I like my borders like I like the safety of my home: secure.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cityzen 7y ago
I find it ironic that Andreessen tweeted this yesterday: "If you’re on the right side of the issue, just keep driving until you hear glass breaking. Don’t quit." —T. Boone Pickens, founder of Mesa Petroleum, RIP
JDulin 7y ago
Awesome! Anduril is one of the few startups today I believe is solving a core problem in the United States' institutions - Defense industry dysfunction. It costs American taxpayers billions of dollars on weapons that under-perform at best and endanger American lives at worst. Palmer correctly identifies some of the incentive issues with current defense contracts. Rather than working on contracts pre-defined by the DoD, which puts the US Treasury on the line for all cost over-runs and entangles project planning in Pentagon political intrigue, Anduril R&Ds technologies on their own dime, to their own specs, before trying to make a sale. High-risk, but one way to do it right today. He explains his vision more in this interview: https://twitter.com/micsolana/status/1087803794266550272 https://twitter.com/micsolana/status/1087803794266550272
- jvanderbot 7y ago
  Anduril has a nice model. It's not unique to Anduril, but it is nice. Most R&D places with eventual infusion / sale to acquisition partners start with IRaD funding and move on to small scale demos and sales. I can't comment on the major acquisitions like fighter jets and aircraft carriers, but this feels natural and familiar when it comes to these advanced, small-scale, systems-level engineering projects.
- auslander 7y ago
  > core problem in the United States' institutions - Defense industry dysfunction. Not Super PACs? "they can raise funds from individuals, corporations, unions, and other groups without any legal limit on donation size." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
  - JDulin 7y ago
    > a core problem in the United States' institutions - Defense industry dysfunction. You missed a word. But to answer your specific suggestion for No. 1: No, I don't think Super PACs are near the Top 10 issues facing the United States' institutions. They might be in the Top 100.
  - remarkEon 7y ago
chx 7y ago
mmmm the Nimble America backer is now working on solving defense problem. What could possibly go wrong here.
steveloco1999 7y ago
Wait until I launch Gimli you fools, it will be even better.
auslander 7y ago
> towers with cameras and infrared sensors that use artificial intelligence to track movement. No automatic gun turrets and autonomous drones? Phew!
- auslander 7y ago
  Liberals and downvoters are designated primary targets. Weapons free, my friends, weapons free.
the_watcher 7y ago
> Although Luckey left Oculus in 2017 amid controversy over his political contributions, he has maintained some links to Facebook Inc. (NASDAQ: FB), which bought Oculus for $2 billion in 2014. Marc Andreessen, co-founder of Andreessen Horowitz, sits on Facebook’s board alongside Peter Thiel, whose Founders Fund previously invested in Anduril. Andreessen Horowitz also invested in Oculus, which makes virtual reality headsets. This sentence is really stretching for "maintained links to Facebook".
thrax 7y ago
Nice. I hate it.
techsin101 7y ago
Right to movement is a human right, get triggered. We need to design society so that anyone can move from anywhere to anywhere. Borders are modern concept and a shitty solution
patientplatypus 7y ago
Think of all the marketing opportunities there are in this sort of evil. It's so positively lucrative. You could televise drone camera footage and have bets on which drones shoot the most fleeing brown people. You could have an e-sports league, but instead of playing Star Craft you could have nationally recognized "players" manning the drones. People would fill stadiums! You could even, with a little thought on the tech stack, have machine gun turrets that the public could operate for $20 for 20 minutes. Hell they could do it through the internet from the comfort of their bunker. So long as the turrets were pointed south there wouldn't be any risk of any of the "important" people being killed. Truly this is a visionary whose time has come.
- auslander 7y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purge

Did we create a super-villain by ostracizing him for supporting Trump?

vernie 7y ago
No, this was this dork's trajectory the whole time.
- kgraves 7y ago
  From an even wider angle, silicon valley is fuelling this dystopia under the veil of "solving difficult problems".
cdumler 7y ago
No, it's just: if you can't provide a solution, there is a lot of money to be made in prolonging the problem. The climate in the U.S. is xenophobic, so there will be dollars to be spent (wasted) on companies who sell technobabble.
- akatechis 7y ago
  By technobabble do you mean all the tech companies that claim they are "changing the world" by whatever it is they are doing? I've seen so many "content platforms" that claim to be "revolutionizing" or "democratizing" or whatever other buzzword you like, access to data, when in reality, they're doing no such thing.
  - BubRoss 7y ago
    What is your point? That other people are doing it too? This is whataboutism 101.
Axsuul 7y ago
Why super-villain? This is a responsible alternative vs. building a monstrous, ugly wall that is a travesty to nature and could potentially save taxpayers billions. We still need to protect our borders but we need to do it in the most non-invasive way with technology.
- webwielder2 7y ago
  Why do we need to protect our borders? Why not just let people live wherever they can afford?
  - dominotw 7y ago
    seems a bit offtopic flamewar I read a research finding somewhere that there are about 500million ppl who would move to US in very near future if they are allowed to move to USA.
  - paggle 7y ago
    Name one country with better-than-average standard of living that has opened its borders and thrived. There will always be a wall around something nice — either around your house, or your neighborhood, or your country.
    - drewrv 7y ago
      The United States itself had "open borders" for a long period of time. There was mass immigration from Ireland, Italy, and many other places and it worked out quite well for us. Even today, we have "open borders" within the US. People are free to move from from poor (or poorly run) communities to places with more opportunities and it's a win-win. Similarly Europe has 26 countries in the Shengen area. Some of the countries have a "better-than-average standard of living" and they're doing just fine.
      - ThePawnBreak 7y ago
        > The United States itself had "open borders" for a long period of time. There was mass immigration from Ireland, Italy, and many other places and it worked out quite well for us. There was no welfare state back then, and the economic situation was vastly different. Also saying it went "quite well" looks over all of the ethnic tension that took decades to fix. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Americans#Discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Americans#Discrimination > Similarly Europe has 26 countries in the Shengen area. Some of the countries have a "better-than-average standard of living" and they're doing just fine. Heard about Brexit? The Romanians are coming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb1AkaKJL08 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb1AkaKJL08
gotoeleven 7y ago
Maybe this is too off topic for HN, but I'm genuinely curious what is the best argument for why it is bad/racist to enforce immigration laws? I've heard people argue that a wall won't be effective. But some people seem to have the view that immigration laws shouldn't be enforced at all and we should allow people to use whatever loopholes (refugee status, traveling w/ children) there are to get in and then not show up for their court hearing. Im genuinely puzzled that this is so controversial.
- alkibiades 7y ago
  the argument is mostly that it gives people white guilt to enforce immigration because most of the immigrants are non-white. and the people supporting the unlimited migration don’t have to deal with the consequences themselves it also wins millions of future and current hispanic votes by pandering
- jobigoud 7y ago
  I'll bite because I'm ambivalent about immigration laws. Why should people that just happen to be born in a third world country live a shitty life with no way out? You can't just say they have to do a revolution in their own country, not everyone is interested in activism, why should this be the fight of their life instead of stuff they actually want to do? You were born in a nice place by sheer luck. It's unfair. I like the idea of a fundamental human right to "mobility". In the grand scheme of things a human being should be able to move anywhere as long as they obey local laws, pay local taxes, etc.
  - vokep 7y ago
    >You were born in a nice place by sheer luck. It's unfair. Yes, thats life? Of course where there is abundance we ought to use it to fix the unfairness. But life is unfair. I think it comes down to where do we actually draw the line of abundance. Some feel we're well past it, enough that we shouldn't even have borders, others feel we aren't even close and ought to be quite selective of who gets to stay.
  - WillPostForFood 7y ago
anigbrowl 7y ago
No. I met Thiel a decade ago and he struck me as very reactionary then. While I admire his intellect and he had valid critiques of how government operates at this point in history I felt many of his arguments were facile and self-serving. I've moved quite a bit to the left since then, but that was my contemporaneous impression rather than my current opinion of him.

“I felt like there were not nearly enough high-tech companies working on defense problems in a way that was more similar to the Silicon Valley model of innovation rather than a traditional defense contract.” (Luckey) Is this true (not enough companies applying "SV innovation model" to "defense problems")?

decebalus1 7y ago
Sadly, it is true. We aren't creating a dystopia fast enough. We definitely need to do better.
shadowmore 7y ago
The traditional model in the defense sector is: - Military or gov't produce exact specifications for something - Contractors bid to create that something - The end product ends up being the result of macro-management and even sometimes micro-management from the very top, which would be the equivalent of SV tech startups being instructed on what to build by Oracle and Microsoft But since the military and gov't are open to working with independent parties when said parties come to them with an offer, Anduril and similar companies have more freedom to develop tech as they see fit and then go and sell it to the military/gov't, and judging by this article, with considerable success.
- gnopgnip 7y ago
  How does palantir fit into this
  - ganoushoreilly 7y ago
    They sort of started out solving an internal problem and then took that domain knowledge to build their platform. Their success early on relied on being able to put together a really good presentation. I would hardly look at their tech as being extremely cutting edge though, they're simply a package solution with a decent enough outcome with minimal competition in what SV would consider an "unsexy" industry. Getting a foot in the door with Govt. Contracting is probably the hardest and most expensive part. Most won't go through the hoops and it creates fewer competitors or alternatives (as OP alludes to).

kgraves 7y ago

Interesting, why would Andreessen Horowitz fund evil, well I guess this is a perfect fit for why I detest venture capitalists.

pstuart 7y ago
> Interesting, why would Andreessen Horowitz fund evil It's tech. It could make lots of money. Evil is relative (/s).
4b11b4 7y ago
I'm not sure capitalism depends on evil, good, or bad (ethics, morals).
decebalus1 7y ago
Probably for the same reason Fanta exists and IBM sold tech to the nazis.

karlp 7y ago

Say "Orwellian security company" "Virtual Wall" is not the only thing they do.

dang 7y ago
The submitted title ("Palmer Luckey's new startup, a virtual US/Mexico wall, valued $1B by A16Z") broke the site guidelines, which ask: "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." We've reverted it to the original now. Submitters: Rewriting titles has a massive effect on discussion, so please don't do that unless the original title is misleading or linkbait. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- mrguyorama 7y ago
  >misleading or linkbait Those are massively subjective concepts, especially in the modern political climate. Have you considered adding examples or further discussing this point in the guidelines?
  - filoleg 7y ago
    While that would be nice, I don't feel like in this scenario it would have mattered at all. The actual title of the article is pretty clearly neither misleading nor a linkbait.
  - dmix 7y ago
    It should be pretty obvious to anyone using the internet for long to identify what's flamebait. If you need examples just look at the political sections of Twitter and Reddit where all sense of civility and intellectual debate has been abandoned. Or look at the headlines of clickbait news sites like Buzzfeed and Vice which target that demographic and do the opposite. There's no shortage of examples kicking around.
    - mindcandy 7y ago
      It should be for a lot of people. But, for more than enough people, it’s not. And, even if it is obvious, the drama it promotes even among the knowledgable is a big negative I’d prefer to avoid on HN.

atemerev 7y ago

So basically a laser tripwire? Like for Roombas?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

4b11b4 7y ago

This dude's communication style reminds me of Trump. I don't know enough about people's research on communication styles and strategies, but I would assume Trump took most(?) of his style from someone else.

pwinnski 7y ago
It's difficult to suggest one known inspiration without tripping over Godwin.

cr0sh 7y ago

It's hearing things like this that make me regret having supported Luckey on his Kickstarter. I had followed him for a few years on the MTBS3D forum when he was experimenting with various HMD prototypes (usually modding the heck out of the Forte VFX-1). He just seemed like a kid with a dream, and the will and ability to make it happen - and potentially revive VR for "Round 2". I suppose he did do that, and while I didn't like the "sell-out" to FB and Zuck - I couldn't blame him, either. Then it seemed like things went downhill from there. I don't have any problem with someone being a republican or a conservative, but I can't and couldn't understand why someone would support a person like our current POTUS. To me, it would be similar to continue to voice support for Manson while saying "well, it isn't like he killed anybody himself, so it's ok" - umm, no - it's not ok. ...and now this. I sometimes wonder if we humans will ever get over this artificial border fetish we have. I don't have problems with property rights, to a certain level, but I'm not sure it has really worked well at the large scale level. All it has seemed to do is create some level of tension at best, and outright violence at worst. I am not certain that we as a species can continue on this path for much longer, not without some very terrible things occuring. So - while I would prefer a "monitored solution" to border control over physical imposing measures, my real preference would be for us to all work toward eliminating these national-level borders completely. Instead, it seems like we're going the opposite direction, even online, and erecting virtual barriers to separate us from each other, instead of working to understand each other and work together on solving our world problems.

luckylion 7y ago
> I sometimes wonder if we humans will ever get over this artificial border fetish we have. Sounds like you believe that humans are the only animals that get territorial.
- rmilejczz 7y ago
  Do you strive to be more animalistic? That doesn’t seem like a very noble pursuit for a human being
  - luckylion 7y ago

PeterCorless 7y ago

How much of that money is going to go to back to help feed poor kids and communities recovering in war-torn Gondor? HUNH?

vlucas 7y ago

There was a really great podcast where Palmer was interviewed about this company and why he chose to focus on it: The Human Code - Anduril Industries & Oculus VR Founder Palmer Luckey (69 MINS) https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/turner-podcast-network/the-human-code-with-laurie-segall/e/58088888 https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/turner-podcast-network/the-... It might help shed some light on the "why" that many people here seem to be asking here in the comments.

paulcnichols 7y ago
This is indeed a really great podcast. I'm sympathetic to his points that 1) the US is falling behind and 2) that in a strong democracy policy plays a big role in shaping the technology.
- ddnb 7y ago
  Is the US regarded as a "strong democracy"? Surely some can argue just how strong, especially with the effective 2-party system. It gets repeated a lot, the US being the greatest democracy and all, but that doesn't make it true per se.
  - m12k 7y ago
    Yeah, between the entrenched 2-party system, Citizen's United, gerrymandering, voter suppression (voter-ID laws, the war-on-drugs combined with felons not being eligible to vote, etc.), the politization of the supreme court and the complete dysfunction of Congress, I'd classify the US as a 'failing' democracy. Not 'failed' mind, you but well on its way. I'd put it about 2-3 democratic dysfunctions behind Turkey and 4-6 behind Russia.
  - IMTDb 7y ago
    > It gets repeated a lot, the US being the greatest democracy and all Absolutely no one is repeating that outside of the US itself

ganitarashid 7y ago

What is wrong with enforcing border security laws? Curious why you think less of him for supporting those efforts.

pfisch 7y ago
It is pretty easy to foresee monitoring technologies like this being used for awful purposes. I'm not a big fan of creating newer and better technological solutions to suppress poor people.
- ganitarashid 7y ago
  Then how should border security be enforced in your opinion? Or should it not?
  - pfisch 7y ago
    We have had border security being enforced for over 100 years.
  - csb6 7y ago
    MLK said something along the lines of, there is no problem with just laws (such as those upholding border security), but there is a problem when they’re applied unjustly. There is nothing wrong, all other things being equal, with enforcing border security. I think this is where your perspective comes from. Nations have sovereignty. Therefore, they can enforce their borders. If all else actually was equal, it would be a sensible argument. However, this new “virtual border fence” does not exist in a vacuum. The current administration - and the prior administration - has ramped up immigration enforcement efforts, in many cases tearing apart families who have lived in the U.S. for many years, had kids, jobs, etc., causing immense pain. Billions and billions spent to remove hardworking residents from the country and place them back across an imaginary line. Why? Because “law and order”. How will your children sleep, if an illegal immigrant is working night shifts to send money back home to his struggling family? The response (e.g. ICE raids, children in prison camps separated from parents without medical care/showers/hygiene, increased enforcement causing more dangerous crossings resulting in drowning) is clearly disproportional to the crime, even if you see illegal immigration as criminal and unjust. The “virtual fence” exists in context with all of these other realities. Perhaps you can see why myself and the parent commenter aren’t exactly cheery about our nation’s innovative, synergistic solution to border enforcement. All of the unjust measures mentioned above (minus perhaps more ICE raids) will be easier than ever to do. “How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world / with such efficient surveillance measures in ‘t!” Even if you see the startling conditions/extensive surveillance measures as justified and deserved of people thrust into difficult circumstances beyond their control, the current administration is clearly incompetent and untrustworthy in the task of implementing such a border fence system. Do we really trust the people who separated parents and children without keeping track of which child belongs to which parents will use such a system in a just manner? I seriously doubt it, and therefore I doubt any argument implying that all enforcement measures can be justified because “order”. Breaking the law does not make you subhuman, and no new measure exists in a theoretical vacuum of just intentions.

cm2012 7y ago

Love these Lord of the Rings names.

Rebelgecko 7y ago

For various reasons, I'm slightly sketched out by pretty much every company I've heard of that is named after something from Lord of the Rings. Even when I don't think they're contributing to a dystopian surveillance state (à la Palantir and this one), you have the other HN front-page story about Mithril Capital being accused of mismanaging investor funds. Is there some weird self-selection that causes only certain types of people to name their companies that way? Edit: I was looking for a list of companies named after LOTR and apparently the link that connects all of them is that they're owned or heavily invested in by Peter Thiel.

lacker 7y ago
Five of them are related to Peter Thiel who I guess just likes to name companies that way. https://qz.com/1346926/the-hidden-logic-of-peter-thiels-lord-of-the-rings-inspired-company-names/ https://qz.com/1346926/the-hidden-logic-of-peter-thiels-lord... Founders Fund invested in Anduril but it wasn't Thiel directly, so this one is kind of one hop away. Maybe it's related.
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  I think I independently found that article right as you were replying. It's definitely a plausible connection.
- CobrastanJorji 7y ago
  I propose that we refer to the companies related to Peter Thiel based around creepy surveillance stuff collectively as the "palantíri."
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    I'd rather call them the Nazgul.
dmm 7y ago
Rivendell bicycle works is quirky but harmless.

atonse 7y ago

Yuck. It's like the perfect marriage of taking any remaining humanity out of law enforcement and add tons of bottomless greed to it. It's so very Peter Thiel-ish. I'd love to say I wish them well, but I hope this company goes out of business due to a public outrage. But they'll always find someone to sell to, like authoritarian governments, and make money hand-over-fist.

golemiprague 7y ago
Yeah, also when they took away the sword and replaced it with a gun it was so much less "humane", you lost all connection with the person you kill, how horrible. Just admit it, you don't like it because it goes against your politics, you don't want an effective immigration control for whatever reason. If it was you who had to use this technology to protect your house for example you wouldn't have any problem.
voodoomagicman 7y ago
I hope everyone involved with this company dies painfully
- dang 7y ago
  You can't post like this here regardless of how strongly you disagree with someone or dislike them. Would you mind reviewing the site guidelines and using HN as intended? They include Be kind. That includes being kind even when others are not being kind. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
zootam 7y ago
>It's so very Peter Thiel-ish. soon, all of the United State's defense companies will be named after stuff from Lord of the Rings
- ENGNR 7y ago
  I bet they get angry every night over not owning ‘ring’ itself, it even plugs directly into law enforcement

sjg007 7y ago

This is probably how the wall should be built for the most part. It allows wildlife to freely roam but then uses AI to identify specific threats. This will probably save a lot of lives too. Then Trump can have his wall and we can all laugh that it is invisible but it will hopefully be effective for border security and environmentally friendly.

Barrin92 7y ago
>It allows wildlife to freely roam well good to know that the wildlife is going to have more privileges than the people. Truly a humanitarian technology company. We sure do live in interesting times.
- sjg007 7y ago
  I mean this is if we "have" to have a wall.

hart_russell 7y ago

Good. I like my borders like I like the safety of my home: secure.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

cityzen 7y ago

I find it ironic that Andreessen tweeted this yesterday: "If you’re on the right side of the issue, just keep driving until you hear glass breaking. Don’t quit." —T. Boone Pickens, founder of Mesa Petroleum, RIP

JDulin 7y ago

Awesome! Anduril is one of the few startups today I believe is solving a core problem in the United States' institutions - Defense industry dysfunction. It costs American taxpayers billions of dollars on weapons that under-perform at best and endanger American lives at worst. Palmer correctly identifies some of the incentive issues with current defense contracts. Rather than working on contracts pre-defined by the DoD, which puts the US Treasury on the line for all cost over-runs and entangles project planning in Pentagon political intrigue, Anduril R&Ds technologies on their own dime, to their own specs, before trying to make a sale. High-risk, but one way to do it right today. He explains his vision more in this interview: https://twitter.com/micsolana/status/1087803794266550272 https://twitter.com/micsolana/status/1087803794266550272

jvanderbot 7y ago
Anduril has a nice model. It's not unique to Anduril, but it is nice. Most R&D places with eventual infusion / sale to acquisition partners start with IRaD funding and move on to small scale demos and sales. I can't comment on the major acquisitions like fighter jets and aircraft carriers, but this feels natural and familiar when it comes to these advanced, small-scale, systems-level engineering projects.
auslander 7y ago
> core problem in the United States' institutions - Defense industry dysfunction. Not Super PACs? "they can raise funds from individuals, corporations, unions, and other groups without any legal limit on donation size." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee
- JDulin 7y ago
  > a core problem in the United States' institutions - Defense industry dysfunction. You missed a word. But to answer your specific suggestion for No. 1: No, I don't think Super PACs are near the Top 10 issues facing the United States' institutions. They might be in the Top 100.
- remarkEon 7y ago

chx 7y ago

mmmm the Nimble America backer is now working on solving defense problem. What could possibly go wrong here.

steveloco1999 7y ago

Wait until I launch Gimli you fools, it will be even better.

auslander 7y ago

> towers with cameras and infrared sensors that use artificial intelligence to track movement. No automatic gun turrets and autonomous drones? Phew!

auslander 7y ago
Liberals and downvoters are designated primary targets. Weapons free, my friends, weapons free.

the_watcher 7y ago

> Although Luckey left Oculus in 2017 amid controversy over his political contributions, he has maintained some links to Facebook Inc. (NASDAQ: FB), which bought Oculus for $2 billion in 2014. Marc Andreessen, co-founder of Andreessen Horowitz, sits on Facebook’s board alongside Peter Thiel, whose Founders Fund previously invested in Anduril. Andreessen Horowitz also invested in Oculus, which makes virtual reality headsets. This sentence is really stretching for "maintained links to Facebook".

thrax 7y ago

Nice. I hate it.

techsin101 7y ago

Right to movement is a human right, get triggered. We need to design society so that anyone can move from anywhere to anywhere. Borders are modern concept and a shitty solution

patientplatypus 7y ago

Think of all the marketing opportunities there are in this sort of evil. It's so positively lucrative. You could televise drone camera footage and have bets on which drones shoot the most fleeing brown people. You could have an e-sports league, but instead of playing Star Craft you could have nationally recognized "players" manning the drones. People would fill stadiums! You could even, with a little thought on the tech stack, have machine gun turrets that the public could operate for $20 for 20 minutes. Hell they could do it through the internet from the comfort of their bunker. So long as the turrets were pointed south there wouldn't be any risk of any of the "important" people being killed. Truly this is a visionary whose time has come.

auslander 7y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purge