6 ms·

I live in Texas. The heat wave that France is experienced this summer is like maybe 1 or 2 degrees Fahrenheit hotter than a normal summer for us. Preparedness

by zadkey 7y ago

I live in Texas. The heat wave that France is experienced this summer is like maybe 1 or 2 degrees Fahrenheit hotter than a normal summer for us. Preparedness for summer is deeply ingrained in everyone's minds here. Many Apartment complexes treat issues with AC units as emergency situations, reach out to on-call handymen and give high priority to their fix. In the city of Dallas, city code requires that property owners provide refrigerated air to tenants from April 1 to Nov. 1. "According to state law, landlords must fix any condition that threatens a tenant's health or safety. In Texas, that condition can include a sweltering day in a stuffy apartment with no air conditioning." It is my hope that people in France look for ways to prepare and better safeguard the health and well-being of their citizens against the heat. Some information taken from https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2009/10/07/dmn-problem-solver-renters-have-options-when-the-air-conditioner-doesn-t-get-fixed/ https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2009/10/07/dm...

negrit 7y ago
In France it's very very uncommon to have AC.
- cf498 7y ago
  Its not just France, its an issue across northern/western Europe. Combine that with the difficulty of getting a proper AC installed in a rented house/apartment with normal stone walls and it explains the current lack of AC units. Most landlord will immediately be scared for the buildings substance. The few AC units that you see are those "mobile" devices with a single tube hanging out of a window. Even window units are a rare occasion because of the kind of windows installed across the country. Not to mention regulations stopping renters from changing the outer appearance of the house. I really dont see a viable plan to retrofit living spaces in a reasonable time frame. At this point i would even be doubtful, that there would be enough people capable of doing the job available. An often overlooked point is also the situation in workplaces, some parts of Europe simply lack the worker protection needed during heatwaves. I honestly dont see how most countries in Europe could retrofit buildings to a detectable degree, let alone finance it. There are just to many older buildings build for another kind of climate. Providing air conditioned shelters during the weeks of deadly heat sounds like the most realistic option. That would be similar to what is being done in winter to prevent people from freezing to death.
  - tripzilch 7y ago
    Many supermarkets have AC (here in the Netherlands), and I seriously considered camping out in one for a bit during the heat a few weeks ago...
dalore 7y ago
It doesn't make sense to have AC preparedness when it's only used for 1 week out of a year. Also the environmental impact of everyone having an AC, that's not good. In France and the UK hardly any has an AC because it's not really needed. Your suggestion is that they spend billions of dollars for this? Who buys everyone the AC? I lived in PNG which is near the equator and hot. It's not the temperature that's the true problem, but humidity. We stayed cool by using the fan, resting, removing clothing, swimming.
- dv_dt 7y ago
  It seems increasingly needed now, and is one of many profit externalities to the fossil fuel companies costing everybody else money. The fairest, and market leveraging way would be to make them pay for this.
  - skohan 7y ago
    Shell and EXON buying everyone in France an AC unit so everyone can keep driving cars around is one of the most dystopian ideas I have considered in some time.
    - jellicle 7y ago
      If you phrase it as "fossil fuel companies should pay large amounts in taxes and the government should use those taxes to help mitigate the effects of climate change" it changes from dystopian to socialism without missing a beat.
      - averros 7y ago
        Not all dystopias are socialist, but all socialism is dystopian. (Full disclosure: I grew up in a socialist country, and this is not a kind of experience I'd recommend to anyone. Although it may be very educational to millenials who think socialism is cool.)
    - jandrese 7y ago
      It's not even to keep people driving cars. It's just the new normal. Even if we stopped driving today we're still going to bake Paris in the summer. The damage is already done. Think of it more like a fine for destroying the environment. A more reasonable shortish term solution is to air condition large communal buildings and allow people to camp out overnight when the temperatures become inhospitable.
throwaway5752 7y ago
The people of France aren't ignorant. They have just acclimated to a climate that is rapidly getting hotter. It would be patronizing if French people offered basic advice on not building on floodplains and storm preparation after Harvey. People just plan based on their prior experiences.
- joachim4 7y ago
  The use of AC in France is also quite foreign. None person in my family use one, despite them living all over the country. But go to the states or to India, and there is AC everywhere.
  - PopeDotNinja 7y ago
    There will probably be a period of adjustment here in San Francisco, CA, too. My apartment does not have an air conditioner, and neither do many (most?) other SF apartments. If people start dropping dead because of the heat here, I have no idea what the city could/would do to address that situation.
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      Being on the Pacific will moderate the chances of that; and give you somewhere to chill. More EU major cities are in-land than US (something about war after war), so there’s less ability to cool off. And less moderating circulating waters.
  - xenocyon 7y ago
    When I grew up in India AC was actually almost nonexistent (except for very rich people and some offices). Instead there were lots of trees, high-velocity ceiling fans, and ventilation (which is important when there's no electricity). Heatstroke/sunstroke outdoors was known, but deaths from hot conditions indoors were rare. Today, there's fewer trees and a lot more AC. It's ironic because AC (especially inefficient window units) contributes to global warming in a big way.
- ramblerman 7y ago
prolepunk 7y ago
Maybe more appropriate topic of discussion should be how climate change affects the people of France and what can be done about it, instead of chastising them for not having Dallas housing codes.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- PorterDuff 7y ago
  Heck, cut right to the chase and ask how occasional high peak summer temperatures kill people and what to do about it. An old lady keeling over in an apartment isn't helped a bit by internet climate change wars. Given the super low price of smaller window A/C units, you'd think they'd install a few more of those, maybe it's impractical for some reason. Looking at a chart showing summer highs in Paris since 1900, it would be interesting to look at a newspaper from 1948 and see what happened (the chart shows a roughly 1 C upwards change since 1900 on average, but the last couple of years are outliers similar to a few earlier heatwaves). I've always wondered what would happen if the power went off for a day or two in Phoenix in August.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    >I've always wondered what would happen if the power went off for a day or two in Phoenix in August. The same as the power going off in Minneapolis in the middle of January. It’s treated as a crisis by the utility.
  - cf141q5325 7y ago
    >Given the super low price of smaller window A/C units, you'd think they'd install a few more of those, maybe it's impractical for some reason. In Europe you generally have another kind of window, which you tilt. https://www.bew24-fenster.de/media/catalog/category/Kat_Kunststofffenster_2018.jpg https://www.bew24-fenster.de/media/catalog/category/Kat_Kuns... https://www.plejadium.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/kippfenster-katzen-1-955x716.jpg https://www.plejadium.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/kippfens... Given the construction, you cant conveniently seal an AC in there. Due to the houses being made from stone, you cant easily replace the type of windows. People also generally rent in the cities, so you would have to convince your landlord to let you screw with his outer wall, which is a big no no. Some countries like Germany also dont allow renters to change the outer appearance of a house. This mostly means no satellite dishes hung out of the window, but also no bulky ACs.
abootstrapper 7y ago
And all Texas cities basically shut down with any amount of snow or ice. Imagine if there was a blizzard in Houston and some yank was like, “where are their snow plows, snow chains, heavy jackets, insulated pipes, etc?”
- GhostVII 7y ago
  If 1500 people died from a blizzard, it would be a reasonable response to suggest that those kind of things would be a good idea.
  - swasheck 7y ago
    if 1500 people died from a sustained blizzard lasting a decidedly "abnormal" period of time would be a better equivalency. It's not like someone just turned the heat lamp on France for a day and zapped 1500 people and then turned it off. People are much better equipped to quickly respond to a catastrophic event. They're less prepared for a sustained shift of their fundamental way of experiencing life.
- inetknght 7y ago
  > * “where are their snow plows, snow chains, heavy jackets, insulated pipes, etc?”* I live in Houston. When it snows here we will sometimes see sand trucks driving around. They come down from North. You can't just truck in AC though so I think your example is like comparing apples to oranges.
- zadkey 7y ago
  This is true. Texas for the most part is not prepared for blizzards or icy conditions. We do not have winter tires, we do not carry snow shovels. There are no snowplows that I have ever seen or heard of. We close schools after 1 to 2 inches of snow, and we put sand on roads. Most people have heavy coats/jackets, but rarely ever wear them. But despite our under-preparedness, not many people die from cold weather in Texas. This data is a bit old(2003-2008), but is illustrative. https://www.dshs.texas.gov/chs/vstat/Hotcolddths/hotcolddths.shtm https://www.dshs.texas.gov/chs/vstat/Hotcolddths/hotcolddths...
baltbalt 7y ago
You have to understand that my apparent is older than Dallas, Installing AC would be very complicated and expensive. Adapting buildings to the changing climate will take time, rushing it could be disastrous to old buildings. Mandatory AC is not the solution but many other solutions are being deployed. The first massive heatwave happened in 2003, it wasn't as hot as this summer but took us by surprise and caused over 15,000 death in France, around 70,000 in Europe. Compare this to 1,500 death in the record breaking heatwave of this summer.

by zadkey 7y ago

negrit 7y ago

In France it's very very uncommon to have AC.

cf498 7y ago
Its not just France, its an issue across northern/western Europe. Combine that with the difficulty of getting a proper AC installed in a rented house/apartment with normal stone walls and it explains the current lack of AC units. Most landlord will immediately be scared for the buildings substance. The few AC units that you see are those "mobile" devices with a single tube hanging out of a window. Even window units are a rare occasion because of the kind of windows installed across the country. Not to mention regulations stopping renters from changing the outer appearance of the house. I really dont see a viable plan to retrofit living spaces in a reasonable time frame. At this point i would even be doubtful, that there would be enough people capable of doing the job available. An often overlooked point is also the situation in workplaces, some parts of Europe simply lack the worker protection needed during heatwaves. I honestly dont see how most countries in Europe could retrofit buildings to a detectable degree, let alone finance it. There are just to many older buildings build for another kind of climate. Providing air conditioned shelters during the weeks of deadly heat sounds like the most realistic option. That would be similar to what is being done in winter to prevent people from freezing to death.
- tripzilch 7y ago
  Many supermarkets have AC (here in the Netherlands), and I seriously considered camping out in one for a bit during the heat a few weeks ago...

dalore 7y ago

It doesn't make sense to have AC preparedness when it's only used for 1 week out of a year. Also the environmental impact of everyone having an AC, that's not good. In France and the UK hardly any has an AC because it's not really needed. Your suggestion is that they spend billions of dollars for this? Who buys everyone the AC? I lived in PNG which is near the equator and hot. It's not the temperature that's the true problem, but humidity. We stayed cool by using the fan, resting, removing clothing, swimming.

dv_dt 7y ago
It seems increasingly needed now, and is one of many profit externalities to the fossil fuel companies costing everybody else money. The fairest, and market leveraging way would be to make them pay for this.
- skohan 7y ago
  Shell and EXON buying everyone in France an AC unit so everyone can keep driving cars around is one of the most dystopian ideas I have considered in some time.
  - jellicle 7y ago
    If you phrase it as "fossil fuel companies should pay large amounts in taxes and the government should use those taxes to help mitigate the effects of climate change" it changes from dystopian to socialism without missing a beat.
    - averros 7y ago
      Not all dystopias are socialist, but all socialism is dystopian. (Full disclosure: I grew up in a socialist country, and this is not a kind of experience I'd recommend to anyone. Although it may be very educational to millenials who think socialism is cool.)
  - jandrese 7y ago
    It's not even to keep people driving cars. It's just the new normal. Even if we stopped driving today we're still going to bake Paris in the summer. The damage is already done. Think of it more like a fine for destroying the environment. A more reasonable shortish term solution is to air condition large communal buildings and allow people to camp out overnight when the temperatures become inhospitable.

throwaway5752 7y ago

The people of France aren't ignorant. They have just acclimated to a climate that is rapidly getting hotter. It would be patronizing if French people offered basic advice on not building on floodplains and storm preparation after Harvey. People just plan based on their prior experiences.

joachim4 7y ago
The use of AC in France is also quite foreign. None person in my family use one, despite them living all over the country. But go to the states or to India, and there is AC everywhere.
- PopeDotNinja 7y ago
  There will probably be a period of adjustment here in San Francisco, CA, too. My apartment does not have an air conditioner, and neither do many (most?) other SF apartments. If people start dropping dead because of the heat here, I have no idea what the city could/would do to address that situation.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Being on the Pacific will moderate the chances of that; and give you somewhere to chill. More EU major cities are in-land than US (something about war after war), so there’s less ability to cool off. And less moderating circulating waters.
- xenocyon 7y ago
  When I grew up in India AC was actually almost nonexistent (except for very rich people and some offices). Instead there were lots of trees, high-velocity ceiling fans, and ventilation (which is important when there's no electricity). Heatstroke/sunstroke outdoors was known, but deaths from hot conditions indoors were rare. Today, there's fewer trees and a lot more AC. It's ironic because AC (especially inefficient window units) contributes to global warming in a big way.
ramblerman 7y ago

prolepunk 7y ago

Maybe more appropriate topic of discussion should be how climate change affects the people of France and what can be done about it, instead of chastising them for not having Dallas housing codes.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
PorterDuff 7y ago
Heck, cut right to the chase and ask how occasional high peak summer temperatures kill people and what to do about it. An old lady keeling over in an apartment isn't helped a bit by internet climate change wars. Given the super low price of smaller window A/C units, you'd think they'd install a few more of those, maybe it's impractical for some reason. Looking at a chart showing summer highs in Paris since 1900, it would be interesting to look at a newspaper from 1948 and see what happened (the chart shows a roughly 1 C upwards change since 1900 on average, but the last couple of years are outliers similar to a few earlier heatwaves). I've always wondered what would happen if the power went off for a day or two in Phoenix in August.
- kortilla 7y ago
  >I've always wondered what would happen if the power went off for a day or two in Phoenix in August. The same as the power going off in Minneapolis in the middle of January. It’s treated as a crisis by the utility.
- cf141q5325 7y ago
  >Given the super low price of smaller window A/C units, you'd think they'd install a few more of those, maybe it's impractical for some reason. In Europe you generally have another kind of window, which you tilt. https://www.bew24-fenster.de/media/catalog/category/Kat_Kunststofffenster_2018.jpg https://www.bew24-fenster.de/media/catalog/category/Kat_Kuns... https://www.plejadium.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/kippfenster-katzen-1-955x716.jpg https://www.plejadium.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/kippfens... Given the construction, you cant conveniently seal an AC in there. Due to the houses being made from stone, you cant easily replace the type of windows. People also generally rent in the cities, so you would have to convince your landlord to let you screw with his outer wall, which is a big no no. Some countries like Germany also dont allow renters to change the outer appearance of a house. This mostly means no satellite dishes hung out of the window, but also no bulky ACs.

abootstrapper 7y ago

And all Texas cities basically shut down with any amount of snow or ice. Imagine if there was a blizzard in Houston and some yank was like, “where are their snow plows, snow chains, heavy jackets, insulated pipes, etc?”

GhostVII 7y ago
If 1500 people died from a blizzard, it would be a reasonable response to suggest that those kind of things would be a good idea.
- swasheck 7y ago
  if 1500 people died from a sustained blizzard lasting a decidedly "abnormal" period of time would be a better equivalency. It's not like someone just turned the heat lamp on France for a day and zapped 1500 people and then turned it off. People are much better equipped to quickly respond to a catastrophic event. They're less prepared for a sustained shift of their fundamental way of experiencing life.
inetknght 7y ago
> * “where are their snow plows, snow chains, heavy jackets, insulated pipes, etc?”* I live in Houston. When it snows here we will sometimes see sand trucks driving around. They come down from North. You can't just truck in AC though so I think your example is like comparing apples to oranges.
zadkey 7y ago
This is true. Texas for the most part is not prepared for blizzards or icy conditions. We do not have winter tires, we do not carry snow shovels. There are no snowplows that I have ever seen or heard of. We close schools after 1 to 2 inches of snow, and we put sand on roads. Most people have heavy coats/jackets, but rarely ever wear them. But despite our under-preparedness, not many people die from cold weather in Texas. This data is a bit old(2003-2008), but is illustrative. https://www.dshs.texas.gov/chs/vstat/Hotcolddths/hotcolddths.shtm https://www.dshs.texas.gov/chs/vstat/Hotcolddths/hotcolddths...

baltbalt 7y ago

You have to understand that my apparent is older than Dallas, Installing AC would be very complicated and expensive. Adapting buildings to the changing climate will take time, rushing it could be disastrous to old buildings. Mandatory AC is not the solution but many other solutions are being deployed. The first massive heatwave happened in 2003, it wasn't as hot as this summer but took us by surprise and caused over 15,000 death in France, around 70,000 in Europe. Compare this to 1,500 death in the record breaking heatwave of this summer.