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Good. People forget the past all too easily. It took a lot to get us the protections we have today. Giving them up so easily is a mistake. For those thinking

by lugg 7y ago

Good. People forget the past all too easily. It took a lot to get us the protections we have today. Giving them up so easily is a mistake. For those thinking this is overreach and stifling innovation you need to look back at history and realise the same thing could be said about many commonplace workers rights that you take for granted now.

mcrocop309 7y ago
'Protections' have, throughout history, negatively impacted the workers. Minimum wage laws, which artifically inflated the cost of low skill labour, resulted in a drastic drop in teenagers being hired - with black teenagers being disproportionately affected. Americans with Disabilities Act, which forced employers to accomodate people with disabilities if they hire them, resulted in less employment for that group. Unions have resulted in MILLIONS of manufacturing jobs leaving the country. And things like this are just going to usher in automation at a faster rate. California is, yet again, placing policies into place that will further tank their economy while, yet again, thinking its doing the right thing and happy because they can act morally superior.
gerbilly 7y ago
The fact that you're bing down voted is beyond me. My wife describes engineers as 'smartdumb'. We're super smart at figuring out technical solutions that enable things like social media, ridesharing and short term rentals. But we're either willfully ignorant or just plain dumb about the second order effects on society. And you know what you call it when people discuss the social good? Politics. That very thing that coincidentally we're not supposed to talk about on this site.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mkane848 7y ago
  Seeing people say things like "Simple competition sorts it out" as if any complex problem can be answered like that. We should really know better, given our field. Also interesting that basically anyone saying anything mildly critical of capitalism is getting downvoted without much response
  - urbanjunkie 7y ago
    > Also interesting that basically anyone saying anything mildly critical of capitalism is getting downvoted without much response Are you new here?
  - weberc2 7y ago
    I’m open to thoughtful, constructive criticisms of capitalism. Mostly what I see is “capitalism allows for some to slip through the cracks, so let’s burn it all to the ground and start over with system that has only ever failed catastrophically (or in the words of its proponents, ‘has never truly been tried before’)”.
    - gerbilly 7y ago
      I see literally no-one one this site suggesting we go to full communism, if that's what you're implying. Carefully regulated capitalism should do fine. This is obviously not easy to achieve.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  On the Gervais principle most engineers are somewhere between the clueless and the losers. This explains a lot of the behavior.
- ilaksh 7y ago
  I don't really think that engineers can't figure out or see the second order effects of apps like Uber or DoorDash. Its very clear. Large numbers of people are operating without benefits. What I think is happening as far as the downvotes is not dependent on the person's field but rather their class or group identification as well as a certain portion of people who are actually worried about maintaining the 'independent' part of this stuff (though that is misguided for things like Uber). Some people don't understand the perspective or plight of gig workers because they identify as being part of a different segment of society, which precludes them from taking on that other perspective.
  - corebit 7y ago
    "Large numbers of people are operating without benefits." You're attributing lack of benefits to work situations and employement agreements instead of unjust government distortion in markets and inefficient regulation.

by lugg 7y ago

mcrocop309 7y ago

'Protections' have, throughout history, negatively impacted the workers. Minimum wage laws, which artifically inflated the cost of low skill labour, resulted in a drastic drop in teenagers being hired - with black teenagers being disproportionately affected. Americans with Disabilities Act, which forced employers to accomodate people with disabilities if they hire them, resulted in less employment for that group. Unions have resulted in MILLIONS of manufacturing jobs leaving the country. And things like this are just going to usher in automation at a faster rate. California is, yet again, placing policies into place that will further tank their economy while, yet again, thinking its doing the right thing and happy because they can act morally superior.

gerbilly 7y ago

The fact that you're bing down voted is beyond me. My wife describes engineers as 'smartdumb'. We're super smart at figuring out technical solutions that enable things like social media, ridesharing and short term rentals. But we're either willfully ignorant or just plain dumb about the second order effects on society. And you know what you call it when people discuss the social good? Politics. That very thing that coincidentally we're not supposed to talk about on this site.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mkane848 7y ago
Seeing people say things like "Simple competition sorts it out" as if any complex problem can be answered like that. We should really know better, given our field. Also interesting that basically anyone saying anything mildly critical of capitalism is getting downvoted without much response
- urbanjunkie 7y ago
  > Also interesting that basically anyone saying anything mildly critical of capitalism is getting downvoted without much response Are you new here?
- weberc2 7y ago
  I’m open to thoughtful, constructive criticisms of capitalism. Mostly what I see is “capitalism allows for some to slip through the cracks, so let’s burn it all to the ground and start over with system that has only ever failed catastrophically (or in the words of its proponents, ‘has never truly been tried before’)”.
  - gerbilly 7y ago
    I see literally no-one one this site suggesting we go to full communism, if that's what you're implying. Carefully regulated capitalism should do fine. This is obviously not easy to achieve.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
On the Gervais principle most engineers are somewhere between the clueless and the losers. This explains a lot of the behavior.
ilaksh 7y ago
I don't really think that engineers can't figure out or see the second order effects of apps like Uber or DoorDash. Its very clear. Large numbers of people are operating without benefits. What I think is happening as far as the downvotes is not dependent on the person's field but rather their class or group identification as well as a certain portion of people who are actually worried about maintaining the 'independent' part of this stuff (though that is misguided for things like Uber). Some people don't understand the perspective or plight of gig workers because they identify as being part of a different segment of society, which precludes them from taking on that other perspective.
- corebit 7y ago
  "Large numbers of people are operating without benefits." You're attributing lack of benefits to work situations and employement agreements instead of unjust government distortion in markets and inefficient regulation.