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Yes it seems the tide is turning on China. If they want to play ball with the rest of the world they need to reform into a modern democracy and the CPC needs to
by devoply 7y ago
Yes it seems the tide is turning on China. If they want to play ball with the rest of the world they need to reform into a modern democracy and the CPC needs to go away. Otherwise, we need to limit the authoritarian contagion. China is pretty much exploiting Capitalist greed to get the Western world to sell them the rope to hang them with.
- ng12 7y agoThat was the neocon dream of the 90's -- let China into the world economy and the PRC will either fall or be forced to accept democracy. 30 years later it's pretty clear that was foolish.
- 33210throwaway 7y agoIs 30 years a lot of time for social change? It took the British over 70 years to fully pacify the Hong Kong people, culminating in the ‘67 protests that ended with over 50 dead protesters. Heck, it took well over a hundred years after the Civil War before true civil rights. Maybe we just need more time before the Chinese change?
- stingraycharles 7y ago30 years might not be enough for fundamental social change as you describe, but it’s more than enough for China to become a major economical player. While I of course admire the idea of the west standing up to China, the reality is that the free market is large, and doesn’t necessarily care. In the end I think it’s mostly important to get rid of our “addiction” to cheap factories and production in China, as it proves problematic long-term.
- geogra4 7y agoChina still hasn’t apologized to the world for lying about WMDs in Iraq, dropping nuclear bombs on Japan or mounting right-wing coups around the globe. When will it start behaving more like the US?
- devoply 7y agoI can tolerate the empire that I am a part of because at least I know I can criticize its evil deeds without having them censor every little thing about them... which can potentially convince them to change, not so for the CPC.
- wayneftw 7y agoSo, you prefer the tactics of a Brave New World over 1984. The outcome is still the same though is it not? You’re not really in control of anything.
- simonh 7y agoWhataboutism is just plain dumb. One country doing bad things in no way justifies any other country doing bad things. Especially when there is broad agreement amongst most people that both things are bad.
- modwest 7y agoI think geogra4's tone was of a kind with the post to which he was responding, which seemed to be asserting that only "modern democracies" (which there appear to be a scant few of these days) could "play ball," and that therefore China is, I guess, disqualified from participating in the world economy? This is deeply subjective obviously: It didn't strike me as "whataboutism," but more a refutation of what seemed like a moral-political superiority complex. Devopyl's comment expressed this old-fashioned view; very reminiscent of the 80s and 90s, for me, and I think geogra4's balloon-popping was well in order. We may have different definitions of "whataboutism" as well :)
- cdmckay 7y agoThe GP is calling for consistency. Calling out “whataboutism” does not make that an invalid point.
- SkyBelow 7y agoOne of those three doesn't really seem like a thing to apologize for. Do we expect the man being attacked with a sword to apologize for shooting the attacker in response?
- RavlaAlvar 7y agoI am often frustrated how CCP infiltration is not on the political radar of most Western society. We in HK witness on first hand the determination and capability of CCP to slowly gobble up our society. If CCP would be allowed to sliently infiltrate Western society and political sphere, in 20yrs........
- markdown 7y agoCase in point: Kiwis have just found out their leader of opposition loves the CCP: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/11/new-zealand-opposition-leader-criticised-for-alarming-stance-on-china https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/11/new-zealand-op...
- Eyes 7y agoSince when is it alarming to complement another country's progress, especially when you're not enemies? I'm no fan of the CCP (and no Kiwi) but this sounds ridiculous.
- markdown 7y agoIt's alarming to compliment a dictatorship that keeps its people in chains, has millions of minorities in "re-education camps" and kills anyone who becomes too vocal against the party. Just because Trump has tried to normalise just that (ref: Russia and North Korea) doesn't make it acceptable.
- cdmckay 7y ago> that keeps its people in chains The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, by a large margin, almost 7 times that of China.
- dvfjsdhgfv 7y agoThat's definitely a huge problem for the USA, on many levels. However, people in the USA don't regularly self-immolate to express how badly their compatriots are treated, and this happens regularly in Tibet. One would think this would give the Western world a good idea of how oppressive the Chinese regime can be.
- deogeo 7y agoHaving your country owned by foreigners is rarely a good idea, even if they are a democracy. They put their own interests first.
- hkai 7y agoYeah, that's not going to happen and the West doesn't really have leverage against China anymore. On the contrary, China has leverage against the West. Some countries like New Zealand are straight up heading to become a Chinese colony in 50 years.
- RavlaAlvar 7y agoIt's so depressing. I just read news today about politicians from New Zealand and Australia being exposed to have tied with CCP. On this rate, within 20 years, CCP would have major political grip on most major Western societies from within those countries. What a horrifying thought.