5 ms·

Media outlets need to start hiring folks who live outside of a handful of trendy metro areas like New York, San Francisco, or DC (or in this case, Toronto). It

by tharne 7y ago

Media outlets need to start hiring folks who live outside of a handful of trendy metro areas like New York, San Francisco, or DC (or in this case, Toronto). It's quite obvious that the author has not spent much time in the types of communities where most people actually live, nor does he seem to have much familiarity with the concept of child rearing. I'm not going to load my young children and 12 bags of groceries onto some pay-by-the-mile micro scooter. I'm going to use my minivan. Has the author ever even installed a carseat? If you have children under the age of 10 or 12 then things like Uber, Ridesharing, etc. are pretty much out of the question due to laws around car seats and child safety. Urban planners have been trying all manner of sticks and carrots (mostly sticks) to get people out of their cars for over 30 years now with very little success, outside of a few very high density older metro areas like London or New York. Cars are popular because they give people convenience and flexibility that the didn't have before. Very few people are going to give that up voluntarily. This is doubly true when you have children. If the author is going to pontificate on the future of transportation, he may want to think about the giant chunk of the population living in the suburbs and raising children. Otherwise it's just an article about the future of transportation for childless professionals living in trendy cities built before WWII.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago
Your kid should be in a booster by 5 or 6, and then they transition out of that between 8 and 12 (4’9”). Once they are in a booster, you can conceivably carry it around and use a ride share. See https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on-the-go/Pages/Car-Safety-Seats-Information-for-Families.aspx https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on... Buses and trains/trams don’t require child seats, so they can always be used. Some states also exempt taxis and passenger van services. Uber offered car seats in a few markets once upon a time. Not sure if they still do, or how it would really work considering different kids require different seats.
- tharne 7y ago
  I don't think it's practical to lug around 2 or 3 boosters. Possible, yes, but a terrible user experience.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    If you have 2 or 3 kids, sure, that would suck. Anyways, it is a relevant strategy for us (one kid) when we visit China and a car rental isn’t possible. Of course, they don’t have child seat laws anyways, but that option doesn’t sit well with the wife.
    - Robotbeat 7y ago
      Roughly speaking, the average family has to have about 2 kids or more (to make up for people who choose not to have children). So the situation of having 2 kids is pretty typical.
      - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
        The average is 1.9. You are supposed to space them out a bit, however. Also, 20%of all kids are only children, big cities one child is more common (Seattle its 47%).
        Robotbeat 7y ago
        That's the average per woman, not the average per family (which wouldn't include independent, childless single people).
  - r00fus 7y ago
    You can - if the kids carry them. After about 5yo, sufficiently motivated/trained kids can do this. It's still a pain.
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      Sounds like a way to build character :) though I can imagine what my now 2 year old would do with that. He prefers the bus anyways. No need for any seat belt at all.
- kyriakos 7y ago
  That's not true worldwide. Booster seats are illegal in Europe, you need a full car seat for children up to 35 kg.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    How does that work? Do you just have to buy a new special car seat that is safe for that weight? Convertibles only go up to 50 or so pounds, and those are for the European NUNAs. Never mind. According to google, these are what we Americans call “high backed booster seats”.
  - r00fus 7y ago
    Really? According to this [1], they are allowed after 18kg, and after 22kg, you can even just use a booster pillow. [1] https://kindertravelguide.com/eu-car-seat-laws/ https://kindertravelguide.com/eu-car-seat-laws/
    - fyfy18 7y ago
      The laws vary by country - in general the European Commission makes recommendations, then it's up to each country to implement them at a local level.
Barrin92 7y ago
>It's quite obvious that the author has not spent much time in the types of communities where most people actually live, nor does he seem to have much familiarity with the concept of child rearing. Urbanisation around the world is rapidly increasing with the formation of urban areas in China or India that might include more than a hundred million people. It's very ironic that you're accusing the author of not getting out of the city when the rest of the entire world is getting into the city, I'm sorry to say that the American suburbs are not the fulcrum of the world any more. By talking about the future of the American city the author is at least approaching what is going to be the most relevant living arrangement of the future. And when we're talking about children the Dutch may be of some advice who manage to carry them around just fine. Even in Western Europe which is more comparable to the US, children do not automatically imply the need for a car.
- tharne 7y ago
  China and India are both building out the suburbs much the same way as the U.S. and Europe did following WWII. Suburbs may be inelegant and tacky to a lot of folks, but they're functional and people seem to like them. The citizens of China and India are no exception.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    Suburbs in many countries are where people live if they are too poor to live in the city. This is definitely true in France, it is true in China as well (you live in changping if you can’t afford to live in Beijing).
    - condercet 7y ago
      This is rapidly becoming the case in the US as well.
_nalply 7y ago
The secret is where you live. If you live in North America you are almost forced to use a car daily. If you live centrally in a small city with good infrastructure, then it's a different story, it gets doable even without Uber, micro scooters and carrying booster seats around.
jbarham 7y ago
> or in this case, Toronto Yeah, roaming around Toronto on a bicycle in summer is fun. In winter? Not so much. (I've done it, when I was younger, poorer and single.) Riding a bicycle (or scooter/motorcycle) when there's ice/slush on the roads is uncomfortable and dangerous, which unsurprisingly is why very few people commute by bicycle year round in Toronto. I'll believe governments are actually serious about combating climate change when they start offering serious tax incentives for people to work from home or local co-working spaces.

by tharne 7y ago

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

Your kid should be in a booster by 5 or 6, and then they transition out of that between 8 and 12 (4’9”). Once they are in a booster, you can conceivably carry it around and use a ride share. See https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on-the-go/Pages/Car-Safety-Seats-Information-for-Families.aspx https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on... Buses and trains/trams don’t require child seats, so they can always be used. Some states also exempt taxis and passenger van services. Uber offered car seats in a few markets once upon a time. Not sure if they still do, or how it would really work considering different kids require different seats.

tharne 7y ago
I don't think it's practical to lug around 2 or 3 boosters. Possible, yes, but a terrible user experience.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  If you have 2 or 3 kids, sure, that would suck. Anyways, it is a relevant strategy for us (one kid) when we visit China and a car rental isn’t possible. Of course, they don’t have child seat laws anyways, but that option doesn’t sit well with the wife.
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    Roughly speaking, the average family has to have about 2 kids or more (to make up for people who choose not to have children). So the situation of having 2 kids is pretty typical.
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      The average is 1.9. You are supposed to space them out a bit, however. Also, 20%of all kids are only children, big cities one child is more common (Seattle its 47%).
      - Robotbeat 7y ago
        That's the average per woman, not the average per family (which wouldn't include independent, childless single people).
- r00fus 7y ago
  You can - if the kids carry them. After about 5yo, sufficiently motivated/trained kids can do this. It's still a pain.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    Sounds like a way to build character :) though I can imagine what my now 2 year old would do with that. He prefers the bus anyways. No need for any seat belt at all.
kyriakos 7y ago
That's not true worldwide. Booster seats are illegal in Europe, you need a full car seat for children up to 35 kg.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  How does that work? Do you just have to buy a new special car seat that is safe for that weight? Convertibles only go up to 50 or so pounds, and those are for the European NUNAs. Never mind. According to google, these are what we Americans call “high backed booster seats”.
- r00fus 7y ago
  Really? According to this [1], they are allowed after 18kg, and after 22kg, you can even just use a booster pillow. [1] https://kindertravelguide.com/eu-car-seat-laws/ https://kindertravelguide.com/eu-car-seat-laws/
  - fyfy18 7y ago
    The laws vary by country - in general the European Commission makes recommendations, then it's up to each country to implement them at a local level.

Barrin92 7y ago

>It's quite obvious that the author has not spent much time in the types of communities where most people actually live, nor does he seem to have much familiarity with the concept of child rearing. Urbanisation around the world is rapidly increasing with the formation of urban areas in China or India that might include more than a hundred million people. It's very ironic that you're accusing the author of not getting out of the city when the rest of the entire world is getting into the city, I'm sorry to say that the American suburbs are not the fulcrum of the world any more. By talking about the future of the American city the author is at least approaching what is going to be the most relevant living arrangement of the future. And when we're talking about children the Dutch may be of some advice who manage to carry them around just fine. Even in Western Europe which is more comparable to the US, children do not automatically imply the need for a car.

tharne 7y ago
China and India are both building out the suburbs much the same way as the U.S. and Europe did following WWII. Suburbs may be inelegant and tacky to a lot of folks, but they're functional and people seem to like them. The citizens of China and India are no exception.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  Suburbs in many countries are where people live if they are too poor to live in the city. This is definitely true in France, it is true in China as well (you live in changping if you can’t afford to live in Beijing).
  - condercet 7y ago
    This is rapidly becoming the case in the US as well.

_nalply 7y ago

The secret is where you live. If you live in North America you are almost forced to use a car daily. If you live centrally in a small city with good infrastructure, then it's a different story, it gets doable even without Uber, micro scooters and carrying booster seats around.

jbarham 7y ago

> or in this case, Toronto Yeah, roaming around Toronto on a bicycle in summer is fun. In winter? Not so much. (I've done it, when I was younger, poorer and single.) Riding a bicycle (or scooter/motorcycle) when there's ice/slush on the roads is uncomfortable and dangerous, which unsurprisingly is why very few people commute by bicycle year round in Toronto. I'll believe governments are actually serious about combating climate change when they start offering serious tax incentives for people to work from home or local co-working spaces.