22 ms·

Bring Back the SE

604 points by abhi3 7y ago

TimTheTinker 7y ago
The article says Apple "... has stated that the next iOS update will not run on the old SE hardware." Not true. iOS 13's compatibility list includes iPhone SE (near the bottom): https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13/ https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13/
tlrobinson 7y ago
I currently use a gigantic iPhone X, but I found my old iPhone 5S (basically the same design as the SE) the other day and was amazed at how small it was. That was one of Apple's great designs.
cydonian_monk 7y ago
I'll chime in as another iPhone SE supporter. I'm still rocking mine, which itself replaced a four year old iPhone 5. Best form factor of any such device I've ever owned. I replaced the battery in both after two years, as the iPhone 5 one was completely shot and the one in my SE was not doing well (and at whatever Apple considers 75%). Otherwise both have been near bulletproof.
paul7986 7y ago
Yes .. iPhone 8 size and below.. please. Current sizes are too big to use in one hand without having to reposition the phone (my pet peeve). Touch ID as well. Preferred over Face ID... grab phone with thumb it opens instantly (my personal experience). Another year for myself Im not refreshing my iPhone. I did every year from 2009 to 2018; bought the XS last year and returned it. EDITED
- MuffinFlavored 7y ago
  You use a 10 year old phone?
  - function_seven 7y ago
    He's bought the new model each year, until this year.
- jcampbell1 7y ago
  I was in your camp, then I got a ring that sticks to the back of the phone. I stopped using a case because I no longer drop my phone, and have even started really stupid things like texting while biking. A ring let's you use bigger phones one handed. Those popper things are more popular but inferior in every aspect.
  - paul7986 7y ago
    Cool, but still no Touch ID as well. One step .. grab my phone with thumb and it's open even before meeting my face.
033803throwaway 7y ago
Or someone, anyone, make a functional clone of it. I don't care much which OS I have to run, they are all the same now. I just want a smart phone that fits in a single hand. I tried the palm and it is a bit too small, and the battery life was insanely bad.
- Apocryphon 7y ago
  > I don't care much which OS I have to run Maybe Purism could think about making a Librem 4 after the 5 releases. Double-down on the hacker-hobbyist niche.
  - als0 7y ago
    > Double-down on the hacker-hobbyist niche. Might be hard to sell for a sensible price in that case.
    - opencl 7y ago
      It's already not what most people would call a sensible price. Seems difficult to significantly shrink a phone that has a pair of M.2 slots in it though.
  - thinkmassive 7y ago
    Pine64 is going for that angle with the PinePhone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ The specs are far from the Librem 5, and software support is basically DIY, but at $150 it might be worth trying if you want a Linux hobbyist phone.
- ehsankia 7y ago
  Is Pixel 3a / Samsung s10e too big for your taste? It's not much bigger than the SE.
  - phinnaeus 7y ago
    Is this a joke? https://phonesized.com/compare/#632,1182 https://phonesized.com/compare/#632,1182
ruffrey 7y ago
I won't upgrade from this old used SE until some phone manufacturer produces a working phone that will fit in a pocket. It boggles the mind. I tried the Jelly Pro, which ran Slack and a handful of critical apps, but the battery life was only a few hours.
- dpflan 7y ago
  Agreed, pocket-sized phone is crucial, unless I should be buying JNCO jeans (but I thought that trend died away).
  - devinjflick 7y ago
    Lucky for you and your giant phone! Now you can spend an outrageous amount for outrageous jeans for your outrageously large phone. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jnco-jeans-comeback-cost-250_l_5d1a696ce4b082e5536dfb62 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jnco-jeans-comeback-cost-250_...
    - dpflan 7y ago
      Thank you, yes, my wardrobe needed an upgrade. I can store my jeans inside my jeans too.
- briandear 7y ago
  How small are your pockets? I have an iPhone X and it fits just fine.
  - robin_reala 7y ago
    My X fits in some of my pockets but not all. I’d definitely go down to a smaller phone if Appel made one; the size jump from SE to X was a bit of a shock.
  - iamnotacrook 7y ago
    Yeah, Honor Play was £260 or something, 6.3" but fits in all my pockets and has almost the power of a flagship. How small are these people's pockets, and how do you, I dunno, play chess or read articles or check out how your photo turned out?
dpflan 7y ago
Cool, another supporter of a smaller iPhone. I upgraded my SE to a newer SE after buying a clearance SE from the Apple store. If they could make a high res. screen that essentially is the entire front of the phone (ala the trend for larger phones), I'd be impressed and upgrade. I wonder what data is motivating Apple with regard to phone sizes. I assume trends towards video and image consumption are really pushing for larger screens. Anyone have any insight or knowledge?
- JansjoFromIkea 7y ago
  On one side having a significantly smaller screen to cater to limits app developers quite a bit, so removing the 320px option would be welcomed there. Another factor is the things that drive a person to spend $500+ on a phone are probably quite far removed from what they actually want from a phone from day to day. A big huge all encompassing screen is gonna outperform something that actually fits in your pocket every time.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    > On one side having a significantly smaller screen to cater to limits app developers quite a bit, so removing the 320px option would be welcomed there. I develop iOS apps and love my iPhone SE. It's a bit difficult to develop for that screen size, but it's only a little bit of additional effort and I wouldn't give up my phone for that. Plus, even if iPhone SE went away there are new devices with that form factor (for example, the new iPod Touch) that will be supported for quite some time.
    - dpflan 7y ago
      I've noticed this: web apps for mobile and even iOS apps seem to spill over. Is there a tool for helping you to develop for the varying screen sizes? (SE surely is an outlier here, but still, the question stands).
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        Honestly, the biggest one is just using the device regularly: you'll be able to tell what'll work and what won't a lot easier. It's clear when people design an interface for a device they haven't used (even Apple does this for certain apps). Get a physical iPhone SE (they're quite cheap) and use it as a development device. Or even better, use it as your actual device.
temuze 7y ago
Mostly, I hope they bring TouchID back, preferably via a scanner on the back of the phone. Outside of providing a bigger screen, FaceID is strictly worse: - When I pulled my old iPhone out of my pocket, I would have my finger on the scanner and it would be unlocked before it reached my face. With FaceID on the iPhone X, I have to wait a few seconds. - If you wake up and you're squinting as you look at your phone, FaceID won't work - If you're wearing a hat and sunglasses, FaceID might not work - If you're doing something else but you want to unlock your phone on the side in preparation for your next task, you have to stop and look at the phone
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  FaceID works a lot better with gloves on than TouchID did.
  - draw_down 7y ago
    Yeah, and touch ID works better in basically every other circumstance.
  - shantly 7y ago
    My TouchID drops to like a 10% success rate if the humidity's much different from it was on whatever day I set it up. Or if I've done any work with my hands in the last week or so and roughed my fingers up a bit. Or if I've looked at water in the last hour. I've configured it several times and it never gets much better. I end up using the code most of the time. Probably need to just disable it, it fails so consistently that it'd be faster just to use the code every time. That's on a 7+, though, and Macbook fingerprint sensors seem a little better (more like 50% success rate) so maybe it's just because it's an early version of the hardware.
    - wlesieutre 7y ago
      I don’t have humidity problems but it’s a nuisance in the kitchen if I have a recipe up on the iPad. Whatever’s on my hands I have to wash off and then thoroughly dry. Depending on how messy my hands are, sometimes I’ll swipe sideways and type in the passcode with a clean knuckle. If I didn’t need clean fingers to unlock TouchID to begin with, iPad OS’s new voice control accessibility feature would be great for in the kitchen. No need to touch the tablet at all any more.
jtth 7y ago
It's coming in the spring.
- rchaud 7y ago
  It's rumoured to have a 4.7-inch screen, so probably not much smaller than the iPhone 6,7 and 8, even if they are able to reduce the top bezels somewhat.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    Based on the math in this thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20932102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20932102 a 4.7 inch screen with similar bezels to an X would be about .1 inches smaller than an 5S/SE.
- symlinkk 7y ago
  According to who?
  - baxrob 7y ago
    "Apple is also working on its first low-cost iPhone since the iPhone SE. That could come out as early as the first half of 2020, the people said. The device would look similar to the iPhone 8 and include a 4.7-inch screen." -- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-05/apple-working-on-in-display-fingerprint-id-for-future-iphones https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-05/apple-wor... According to gsmarena.com iPhone 8 is 4.7" and SE is 4.0"
ljm 7y ago
The SE must be my favourite phone ever since the Nokia 3310 (although the Yotaphone was up there for pure novelty of having an e-ink display on the reverse). It was practically perfect and it could take more of a beating than the latest X series phones. An SE sized X would be nice (with the Face ID and stuff), with a higher screen resolution, but I think it would become more fragile as a result.
bryanlarsen 7y ago
Presumably Apple doesn't make a new SE because it would kill their margins. And it'd be hard for them to make the SE expensive because it would probably be thicker, with a cheaper screen, worse battery life and worse performance (because of battery & cooling). But I'm sure they could come up with some semi-plausible reason to make an "SE Pro" so they can keep those margins. How about owning the extra thickness and giving it a massive battery and using the depth to put killer camera optics in?
- oneplane 7y ago
  I doubt a company like Apple would re-introduce a product like the SE which at this point is that far off the current median product range they manufacture.
- kgwgk 7y ago
  If they can make money selling a $450 iPhone 8 they can surely make money selling the SE. If they made money selling it in 2017 why wouldn't they make money in 2019?
- Apocryphon 7y ago
  Pretty insane that the most profitable company in the (history of the?) world is so risk adverse so as to obsess about margins.
  - marceldegraaf 7y ago
    Off topic but I think that would be the Dutch East India Company (Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie or V.O.C.)
  - als0 7y ago
    That's probably how they became the most profitable tech company in the first place.
    - Apocryphon 7y ago
      They also took risks, once
skrebbel 7y ago
> It is unlikely that any of my friends and family members are going to move to Android, where there is a wide variety of hardware form factors to choose from. There's hardly any good iPhone SE-sized Android phones anymore. I have a Sony Xperia Somethingsomething Compact and it's the only option I'm aware of, and it's not really that great. I've never had an iPhone but if they release a new SE I'd probably jump ship in a heartbeat.
- pmontra 7y ago
  I had to replace my Xperia X Compact (2016) recently. The latest Compacts weight much more and cost like flagship phones, which they are. However I'm not interested into something weighting so much and costing some 600 Euro. I compromised on a Samsung A40 which is the smallest modern Android phone I was able to find. It costs 200 Euros and weights 140 g. Compared to the Compact is a much better phone. Bezel less OLED screen and still the 3.5 audio jack. It's as wide as the Compact and thinner. Unfortunately the A40 is too long and I can feel the difference when I put it in the pockets on the legs of hiking trousers: it starts hindering movements. The shorter and thicker Compact didn't. And the extra 2 cm of length aren't really worth much. I would cut them off and still have a better phone than the Compact.
- barbs 7y ago
  I bought an iPhone SE earlier this year because I couldn't find an Android phone in that size (I'm an Android developer). I generally prefer Android as an OS but the size and form factor is excellent. I'm hoping there's a decent Android phone in an SE size by the time my SE dies.
ryacko 7y ago
I’ll repost an old comment: I’d like an iPod Touch with cellular. Until then, I’ll keep my iPhone SE and disable JavaScript.
mehrdada 7y ago
Keeping SE supported fragments iOS market and burden the developers. iPhone 8 is now the low-cost iPhone roughly at SE price point with a screen size that you kind of have to support anyway.
- castis 7y ago
  Removing the SE fragments the user base. I'll go to another hardware vendor to keep a hand-sized device.
  - mehrdada 7y ago
    Android has never had good support for small devices, so I don't think that's a huge risk.
    - erigeron 7y ago
      The Android phones in 2013 were a pretty good size, small by today's standards.
    - projektfu 7y ago
      Android on the Jelly Pro was usable but recharging 2-3 times per day was not. Just a little bit bigger, please, to support a bigger battery and a slightly larger on-screen keyboard.
- tfehring 7y ago
  It's form factor too, not just price point. The form factor is the only reason I switched from Android, and I'd happily pay the full iPhone 11 price for a phone the size of an SE with iPhone 11 internals.
benologist 7y ago
Sometimes I use my SE to listen to music without headphones and it amazes me compared to the garbage speakers in my monitors.
gnicholas 7y ago
Anyone else having connection problems with AVC.com? I couldn't find an archive link.
stephc_int13 7y ago
My SE will probably be my last iOS device. iOS used to be much better than competition, but I don't think that's the case now. I never liked big-ass phones, and in my opinion the best iPhone design was the iPhone4, this one was a real masterpiece. But I won't pay a premium for a phone I don't like, when my SE will no longer do its job, it will be replaced by a cheap Android device.
- oplav 7y ago
  Do you use any other Apple products? I feel the same way about paying a premium for a phone I don't like, but iMessage is what is keeping me from switching (back) to Android. My personal computer is a 2014 MacBook. My work computer is a MacBook. Being able to message freely from my laptop to others on iMessage is a really nice feature.
  - xnyan 7y ago
    With android you also can do this on MacOS, as well as Linux and Windows.
    - paulddraper 7y ago
      messages.android.com
    - OJFord 7y ago
      And then in a few months' time you can do it in a new app with a slightly different UI!
  - anoncake 7y ago
    FYI, Telegram can also be used from a laptop without a phone being involved.
    - oplav 7y ago
      This requires the network I communicate with to move from iMessage, a platform that already works for them, to Telegram or any other app for my sake.
DevKoala 7y ago
Please do it. I would buy it on a heartbeat. I don’t like carrying this tablet sized display (XS). I miss my SE, it was just too sluggish and restarting too much when I replaced it. Also, I have a feeling that the reason why they don’t do it is because bigger screen generate more engagement.
dijit 7y ago
Every year I wait on bated breath at the release of a similarly compact phone to the SE. I even recently bought a new one right before they removed them from the store, so I have 2 year apple care+ for it to tide me over. Ordinarily I would vote with my wallet, but there are no compact Android phones either. Ironically I still own a Oneplus One which is quite old by todays standards; and I distinctly remember it being called a "Phablet" due to it's obtuse stature in comparison to its contemporaries. However it would not look out of place today, in fact in comparison to my friends iPhone Xs (not max) it hardly seems at all larger! I would merrily slam down 1K+ EUR for a real flagship phone at a size I can actually use. (also, I wonder how women get on, since generally they have smaller hands than men.)
- RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u 7y ago
  > (also, I wonder how women get on, since generally they have smaller hands than men.) PopSockets. In my neck of the woods they are almost as common as phone cases. Some men also use them.
  - dijit 7y ago
    https://www.urbanoutfitters.com/shop/popsockets-tortoise-shell-phone-stand https://www.urbanoutfitters.com/shop/popsockets-tortoise-she... Oh wow, this is horrible.
    - kjeetgill 7y ago
      I don't know if you're unfamiliar or not but it flattens out.
      - irq 7y ago
        No it doesn’t. At least, it doesn’t go flat enough that it doesn’t disrupt wireless charging.
        kjeetgill 7y ago
whycombagator 7y ago
Bring back TouchID too.
ch_123 7y ago
> Apple discontinued the iPhone SE at the tail end of 2018 and has stated that the next iOS update will not run on the old SE hardware. Apple has in fact stated that iOS 13 will run on the SE: https://www.apple.com/ie/ios/ios-13/ https://www.apple.com/ie/ios/ios-13/ I believe the internals are approximately the same as the 6S, and I would expect that both will be supported for the same amount of time.
- javagram 7y ago
  Came here to make the same comment. I don’t think Apple has confirmed any EOL for the SE. It’s not sold in the USA anymore, but isn’t it still produced in India for that market (maybe ending now that the 11 is announced, I’m not sure)?
ezequiel-garzon 7y ago
EDIT: Never mind, OP is right, I had this wrong. Thanks, 333c. Apple discontinued the iPhone SE at the tail end of 2018 Actually it was on September 12, 2017, the day they announced the iPhone X [1], even if they had it on sale for a while early this year. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE
- 333c 7y ago
  You mis-quoted your source, which says September 12, 2018, which in my mind does count as the tail end of 2018.
  - ezequiel-garzon 7y ago
    Oops! Thank you, I was so sure that I read it, and typed it, incorrectly. It was when they announced the iPhone XS then.
mythz 7y ago
I bought the SE for my kid ($149 on Amazon) as he was getting frustrated when using my old iPhone 4 which was slow and unresponsive. He absolutely loves it and I'm kind of jealous of how small, lightweight and portable it is vs my iPhone XS - definitely the best price/form factor for kids and can definitely see the appeal of smaller phones esp. if you don't spend a lot of time in using App's or browsing where the small screen real-estate hurts UX.
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gnicholas 7y ago
The SE would probably also be better from an environmental perspective, since it would use fewer materials. Why are they forcing everyone to buy big phones, whether they like them or not?
vernie 7y ago
Please give avc.com to someone who does video compression.
labster 7y ago
My work bought me an "upgrade" to the XR, as my SE is starting to show some battery issues. But after a day of playing with the XR, I put it back in the box to send back to Apple. Compared to the SE, the XR is 50% heavier -- even without a case. It doesn't have a good edge to hold onto being so thin, so it makes you want to hold on by the front. But every corner of the front of the device is a UI element that you can accidentally interact with. FaceID failed 90% of of the time for me -- and unlike the fingerprint reader, 100% of the time in the dark of night. That's before I get to the simple annoyances, like how it's not flat, doesn't fit in the pocket so well, and blasts my face full of light in the night. So Apple lost a sale by not offering a product I want. If my SE breaks, I'll probably just pull my iPhone 1 out of storage -- it still works, has a great form factor, and a much lighter weight than any of Apple's current lineup. Sure EDGE is a little slow and I won't be able to use my Apple Pay, but those are problems I can live with. I live on large screens all day. I don't need a huge phone to be my computer. I want a choice -- even if that choice is a remanufacture of a 2016 design. An updated design -- say an SE/30 -- would be great. But between that and the keyboard issues in the Macbooks, they've made an Apple fan with upgrades provided by work skip several product cycles. I read enough of these threads to know I'm not the only one. I just wish I knew why they kept leaving money on the table in the pursuit of thinness.
- TacticalTable 7y ago
  > EDGE is a little slow Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe EDGE has been disabled across a lot of the US.
  - joecool1029 7y ago
    Nationally it's only used by T-Mobile in very small amounts of spectrum, and only as fallback of last resort or for legacy things like burglar alarms. Regionally, there might be some rural specialty carriers using it (stuff like indigo wireless for the mining industry). AT&T shut their footprint off completely a few years ago to free up spectrum in 850mhz.
- Synaesthesia 7y ago
  The iPhone 1 is like comically slow by today’s standards.
K2h 7y ago
Paid $299 for a new old stock from apple - 128GB SE. I looked at which of the modem bands fit my use case the best and got the T-mobile version. My second se, upgraded from 16GB version when camera optics seriously degraded after rugged use, and found apple charges for a whole phone to change the lens. Love the phone. I told IT when they asked what phone i wanted to “get me the small one - to fit in my skinny jeans”. I don't wear skinny jeans, but they got the point.
ricardobeat 7y ago
I bought a new SE earlier this year, but managed to completely shatter the screen twice and gave up on it. Still holding onto a 6S.
- Synaesthesia 7y ago
  6S is great, I still love mine.
gumby 7y ago
I think Apple's answer to that is a watch with LTE. Seriously. My GF controls her apple watch by voice, glances at imessages on the screen and replies by voice, and really only pulls out her phone when seated or waiting-while-standing. I doubt a modernized SE-sized device could meet Apple's margin needs.
AznHisoka 7y ago
Has anyone experienced more frequent RSI or carpal tunnel syndrome (or any hand pain) as a result of using the larger iPhones? It might just be me, but ever since I transitioned from the old iPhone 4's to the iPhone Plus', I have had more instances of random hand-related pain.
Synaesthesia 7y ago
The iPhone 7 can be gotten for quite cheap these days and it’s a nice size IMO
graeme 7y ago
I would absolutely through money at a better phone, but I'm holding out with an iPhone 8 because anything bigger heavier is uncomfortable. There are rumours to 2020 flag ship will be smaller, I'm looking forward to that.
mrbonner 7y ago
I have an 7 plus and will hold on to it for as long as I could until a smaller iPhone (<4.5 in) comes along.
hnsocks 7y ago
Apple start to be dead in interest level of app creators. Too much restrictions..no go zone for many
kingkawn 7y ago
Still using an SE, it’s the best
gkolli 7y ago
I apologize if this is a naive question, but why doesn't Apple continue to sell the SE if it was popular and there is a continued market for it?
- TacticalTable 7y ago
  Nobody besides Apple knows the exact reason(s), but I'd guess it's because they determined that enough users were attached to the ecosystem that they could upsell more of them on a larger/more-expensive phone, than they would lose to competitors. Presumably that profit difference is smaller than the cost to develop a new form factor.
post_break 7y ago
I feel like the only one who thinks the Xs size is perfect compared to the SE. If you polled everyone online they just want the SE.
eddywebs 7y ago
Ive been using SE since the first day it came out and refuse to upgrade for the same reason stated in the post. Just yesterday I was stopped at the airport and security asked me that phone is so small is this new? I had to respond "no its an old iphone". I have been repeatedly made fun of using a tiny phone while whenever somebody makes this comment back in my mind I think the jokes on you. Can't agree more with the sentiment here, great minds do think alike ;)
davidjnelson 7y ago
I wish Apple would make a good product. I’d be thrilled to drop a grand to get better cpu, storage, ram, and camera. But if I have to give up the phone not falling out of my pockets and breaking, the removal of the aux jack, and the removal of Touch ID, why bother? Are my interests unusual? Do they not want money? I don’t get it.
redisman 7y ago
Is there even a good 4" Android to switch over to at this point? Their flagship phones also seem to be slowly expanding.
- erigeron 7y ago
  There's not even good stuff in the 4.7" to 5.2" range anymore.
  - aidenn0 7y ago
    https://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/xperia-xz2-compact/ https://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/xperia-xz2-com...
    - raynr 7y ago
      The xz2c was a step down in many ways from the xz1c. Just off the top of my head, no headphone jack (I use mine almost daily), back-mounted fingerprint sensor (that's not how I use my phone), fatter and bigger, less battery life, and front-facing selfie camera is not wide angle.
- odiroot 7y ago
  The last one was Sony Xperia XZ Compact.
  - Nition 7y ago
    Close, but even that smallish phone was 4.6".
donohoe 7y ago
Yes - the form factor of the SE is just unbeatable. I've remain surprised that Apple moved to and stays with the current form factor.
aeharding 7y ago
My next phone after the SE will hopefully be a standalone Apple Watch (Cellular) with some AirPods. Once watchOS grows independent enough from the iPhone...
- bobajeff 7y ago
  That's pretty much my thoughts on the matter. At some point some company is going to come out with a really good stand-alone smartwatch. And that will take the place of small phones and probably even regular sized phones.
pcmaffey 7y ago
I just retired my 5s and bought an SE for $100 from a 12 year old. It's even rose gold hah. Only reason my 5s needed to go was because it doesn't support VoLTE, which the SE does, and is needed to get calls at my house. As others have said, would totally spend $900 on a similar sized phone with upgraded internals. But, looks like I'll just hold onto this one for ever...
acqq 7y ago
I'm also still using an SE and I'm not sure what I will do if it breaks. I want Apple iOS, but I definitely want the size of SE and nothing bigger. And the 3.5 headphone jack. And the not-too-curved edge so that I can it can stay on it. I'd pay 500 for a newer model with a newer CPU.
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jeffkeen 7y ago
Seriously. This giant phone trend is nonsense. Nonsense! I'm a 6'5" man with large hands who still swears by an SE, despite being mocked by friends and strangers whenever I pull out my "tiny phone". I had a 6S and promptly ditched it for an SE after feeling like the thing was designed to slip out of my enormous hands. That whole "reachability" feature they added when they started with this phablet obsession was basically an admission of guilt—"Yeah, this phone is too big for your hands and goes completely against our brilliant ad campaign about the phone vs hand size, but Samsung made a big phone and people are buying it! We're scared they're taking our customers away so we're making big phones now. Here's a workaround." Thanks, I hate it. As someone holding on tightly to an out of date iPhone and a 2015 MacBook Pro (oh my god, the current laptop keyboard/trackpad/port situation is a whole 'nother even more intense rant), I think Apple has fucking lost it product-wise. I'm saying this as someone who has been on Apple products since 1987 and lived through the dark days of Apple in the 90s. To me it's an example of what happens when you put a finance guy and not a product guy at the top of the totem pole. Instead of asking "is this product the best it could be?" the thought process seems to be "Will this product make money? How can it make MORE money?" "Yeah, it doesn't sit on a table flat anymore, but it'll sell when we market it as 'THE SHINIEST IPHONE EVER'" "It sure is awkward to use one handed, but it'll sell when we market it as 'THE NEWEST IPHONE WE'VE EVER MADE'" Bigger and bigger iPhones with better and better cameras and more and more letters tacked on to the end will sell to a captive audience when Apple has the brand power they do. And that might seem good enough when all you're doing is comparing yourself to what the rest of the market is releasing, and when market success is beating last year's sales. But is that the Apple we want? Nope. I want my Apple back. The SE was the last phone form-factor that still had Steve Job's approval on it, and it sucks that it's so obvious.
- mumblemumble 7y ago
  > mocked by friends and strangers whenever I pull out my "tiny phone". Interesting. I don't often get mocked for having an SE, but I do often have people asking what model my phone is and where they can get one. My current hope is that we might see something like the SE come back now that Jony Ive's had at least a glancing blow from the boot. Maybe now Apple's at least a little bit more able to resist the constant drive to make the phones wider and wider so that they can fit the same amount of electronics and battery into a thinner and thinner device.
irae 7y ago
Here is my plan: Buy old broken iPhone SEs and go to Apple support to get a replacement for whatever their price is. I'll get one for replacing mine (battery issues) and one for myself in the future, in case they really stop manufacturing it. Shame on Apple.
rock_artist 7y ago
At least I’m happy to see small form factor still got audience.
irae 7y ago
The bad news is: There is no Android alternative either. Phones with 4" and good processing powers and reasonable cameras just don't exist. Really dire situation. I guess I have one more year with iOS 13 before I'll need to get used to use an outdated iOS.
nico_h 7y ago
my SE 64GB is nearing the end of it’s useful life (battery is old, dust on the front and main camera, broken back glass ). I’m looking into either a second hand 128GB SE or getting an out of warranty repair. The small size and one handedness are just essential features in so many situations. i really wish they made an updated SE with a full screen front and updated cameras. And the real black aluminium back. from the iphone 5.
jblake 7y ago
Love my SE. Replaced the battery for $15 off Amazon yesterday. With replacements available on ebay for under $100, I don't have to baby my phone or use a case. If apple offered a modern SE, I'd probably buy it, but I'm also quite happy with my SE as-is. If the SE wasn't getting iOS 13, I don't know what I'd do... thankfully it is.
meddlepal 7y ago
I suspect the popularity of the large form factor phones is boomers who have aging eyesight and motor skills.
irae 7y ago
For everyone here saying they can't vote with their wallet. You actually can. Apple is so proud of costumer satisfaction. Just buy whatever phone, use it for a day, restore backup to your SE and return the phone saying large screens are not for you. They will see it both as costumer satisfaction statistics and from reactivation of your beloved iPhone SE
raldi 7y ago
No, bring back the iPhone 4S. It was the perfect size and shape. You could even stand it on its side, due to the flat edges. And the square corners made it easier to grip. Even the iPhone 5 was too big.
chrismatheson 7y ago
Maybe we just aren’t the target market for Apple phones.
sangd 7y ago
I owned the SE for ~3 years and I always loved how capable the phone is. It worked well almost like any new iPhone and it has surprisingly good camera too. I recently switched to the Pixel 3A when it came out because the camera was the main reason. After a few months, I see that Pixel 3A camera doesn't look as truthful as my old SE. Even though the video has optical stabilizer, it doesn't feel as smooth as my SE, and the quality is actually disappointingly worse than my SE. I miss my SE. I do wish Apple update the SE with a new version and I would definitely buy it.
irae 7y ago
> Presumably Apple doesn't make a new SE because it would kill their margins. I think that is not the case. They could just build something with A12 or A13 chip, call it "iPhone Mini" and have high margins again. I think the real deal is mainboard design, case design and all the manufacturing pipeline can't scale to 4 models a year. They are focusing on the XR and now they even removed the suffix. They realized the cheaper model must be big enough. So every year they spend the resources there. Maybe next year, they can spend one cycle doing a 4" screen form factor, since this year all the announcements have at least 2 cameras. So maybe next year the Pro will have only one screen size and they can do regular, mini and pro. Each with a different display size.
kaycebasques 7y ago
My SE is still serving me well. The small form factor was definitely the deciding factor for me. I like being able to comfortably sit down with my phone in my front pocket.
mhd 7y ago
I really liked my SE/30. Even had Ethernet.
programminggeek 7y ago
I think the Google Pixel 3a is the best reasonably sized and reasonably priced phone for most people. Performance is good, camera is great, price is sensible.
slyrus 7y ago
Here I was thinking the author was suggesting bringing back the Macintosh SE, but with, oh, a retina display, 12 cores, 4 TB of SSD, powerful mini-speakers, and ... a small drink-refrigerator or maybe a place to hold a potted plant. That would have been cool.
minieggs 7y ago
Nothing wrong with the current SE. I’m typing on it now. :-) (other than all the websites that stopped testing on small screens... looking at you Reddit). https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwe4m83my4zj4ul/Photo%20Sep%2010%2C%209%2022%2037%20AM.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwe4m83my4zj4ul/Photo%20Sep%2010%2...
Apreche 7y ago
Remember with iPods they kept trying to make them smaller and smaller? iPhone nano or iPhone Air please.
davej 7y ago
I've been stuck on the iPhone SE since release and refuse to switch even though the home button is broken. I would consider switching to Android if a manufacturer released a premium phone with SE-like dimensions. There's literally nothing on the market with a decent spec anymore. "Compact" phones now have screens that are > 6 inches.
rbrbr 7y ago
And don’t forget that a new iPhone with the size of an SE but design of the X would have a display size of around the iPhone 6/7/8 and make those phones entirely obsolete yet being smaller.
layer8 7y ago
According to rumors, the 2020 iPhone Pro will be reduced from 5.8" to 5.4", which could look like this (size comparison including SE): https://blogs.forbes.com/gordonkelly/files/2019/06/New-iPhone-5.4-inch-Edited.jpg https://blogs.forbes.com/gordonkelly/files/2019/06/New-iPhon... However that size would still be significantly wider horizontally than the SE, pretty much as wide as the 6/7/8 (which I found too wide for comfortable one-handed use). In addition, they would probably keep the on/off button on the side instead of relocating it back to the top. The latter would be my preference, also for consistency with the iPads. When I owned both an iPhone 6 and an iPad mini, my muscle memory couldn't quite get used to the inconsistency of the on/off button location.
dkraft 7y ago
LOL. As if popular demand has to do with anything. "Its shiny, they'll love it."
rtpg 7y ago
> It is unlikely that any of my friends and family members are going to move to Android, where there is a wide variety of hardware form factors to choose from. The iOS lockin is very powerful. The worst thing is that despite this there are basically no high-end small phones in Android either! Once you look at phones smaller than like 5 inches you get into very weird or super low-end phones that are basically unusable. Hell, even the iphone 8 and X is smaller than most androids
bartwe 7y ago
I asked a phoneseller friend about it 'People don't want those phones' was the answer.
- 345218435 7y ago
  „those“??
pkorzeniewski 7y ago
I can't believe that despite sooo many smartphone models there isn't even ONE under 5 inch with a good camera. Two years ago I bought one of the cheapest smartphones on the market (Alcatel Pixi with 4 inch screen) because it was the smallest one I could find - it has the perfect form factor and is good enough for most stuff I use, but one thing I really miss is a good camera. I waited for something better in that size to show up but the phones just get bigger and bigger...
- KiSM 7y ago
  I feel that, IMO the Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact is about the b̶e̶s̶t only premium compact phone. No confirmed successor and it was a bit pricey too...
  - Nition 7y ago
    I looked at that phone as an option a while ago but it's relatively huge compared to the SE. The screen is 25% larger. I realize it's also the smallest recent high-end Android phone though!
Khaine 7y ago
I want a smaller size phone as well. Give me something the size of the original iPhone.
zzleeper 7y ago
Silly question, but what does he mean by the iOS lock-in? I have both an Android (personal) and iphone (work) and don't find anything particularly appealing about the iphone wrt to a much much cheaper Huawei (besides a faster camera)
3ef53e78e42b 7y ago
Make sure to give Apple the feedback directly: https://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html https://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html Not likely it will change any strategic direction, but more official feedback might sway things a tiny bit.
pdonis 7y ago
So let me get this straight: the author admits Apple doesn't need to do this for business reasons, but is asking them to be nice and do it for other reasons? And the option of, you know, using one's market power to give Apple an incentive to do it for business reasons isn't on the table? Does the term "self-inflicted wound" ring a bell?
- saurik 7y ago
  The argument is that due to all of the other lock-in effects, users don't really have the choice of switching to another smaller device (which, fwiw, doesn't even really exist anymore either: the world seems to have decided high quality small phones are a bad idea).
  - pdonis 7y ago
    > due to all of the other lock-in effects Which have been common knowledge about Apple for longer than plenty of Apple users have been alive. And if users choose to keep on being users when they know full well what Apple is up to, again, self-inflicted wound.
maz1b 7y ago
I believe in voting with my dollars. I will be waiting for a smaller size phone that doesn't compromise on hardware and features, and if Apple doesn't make it within a year or so, then I'll start to look at alternatives. People talk about how Tim Cook is a logistics master, so it shouldn't be difficult to do a smaller sized phone. I don't want a cheaper, lower quality phone, I just want an iPhone XS that's smaller.
coolandsmartrr 7y ago
My quick prediction is that if Apple intends to continue with the SE, they would quietly announce it around spring next year. Announcing an SE at this time may cannibalize holiday seasons sales.
foobarbecue 7y ago
I use the Sony xperia compact / minis. They are great!
627467 7y ago
I used to think that compact sized phone such as SE (or Sony compact range) were perfect size for me. Until I got a Galaxy S8 and realized that, as long as width is ok, I can stand a long screen. Even the S9 (at about 1mm wider) feels too wide.
colinmegill 7y ago
> iOS lockin is very powerful Loved the smaller form factor and switched to Pixel when the phones got bigger and more expensive. But I didn't feel the software lockin — I was using Google maps, mail, cal, docs, etc., plus Spotify etc., etc., and that became easier when I switched to the Pixel, less fighting with the OS. Have others found the switch difficult?
Illniyar 7y ago
You expect apple to do what their users want? That's nonsense, users have no idea what they want. Besides, the article is completely missing the point - the user should just grow bigger hands.
thanatos_dem 7y ago
Apparently Apple has given up on the whole “common sense thing” that the touted during the iPhone 5 days - https://youtu.be/O99m7lebirE https://youtu.be/O99m7lebirE
zkhalique 7y ago
If you still use an SE you're instantly my friend. This is a battle worth fighting.
345218435 7y ago
i love all the things an iphone has to offer. but on top i have the following three requirements. 1. need to reach all screen corners with one thumb: one-handed usage 2. be flat on all sides, don‘t fucking wobble: no bulges 3. i will touch it for interaction; don‘t look at me: touch id now, looking at what apple serially delivers, these things are not impossible for them to achieve. the question is, why do they go the other way and try to sell me phones too slim to properly house the camera.
sbr464 7y ago
I don’t mind the larger phones, but I feel a lot of work could be done on keeping all input to one side or the other, easing single digit input.
femto113 7y ago
I still have my first iPhone, a 3G with the curved back. Every once in a while I pick it up and always marvel at how comfortable it is in my hand compared to the iPhone X I use now. I oouldn't possibly go back to using a screen that small but would definitely give up some screen size to regain a bit of that old "nice to hold" feel.
prvc 7y ago
Does anyone have a source for the claim of dropped support in iOS 14?
shifto 7y ago
I have a SE for work but a Xiaomi Mi 9 for personal use. I just can't get used to iOS and the small SE. Cant type a decent message on it and the UI, although easy, just makes me feel I'm missing out on efficiency. Not to mention I don't really care for apple products besides my old iPod (and of course the old stuff like the Apple][).
- dijit 7y ago
  Choice is good. I’m glad you have options that work for you. I don’t unless I use a 5 year old phone that may no longer be maintained.
- shifto 7y ago
  It's funny how saying you don't like apple gets you downvotes on HN. Imo it's weird technical minded people like on here even think good of apple but that's probably just me.
jzl 7y ago
Macrumors just reported the other day that there may in fact be an SE 2 or equivalent coming in the spring: https://www.macrumors.com/2019/09/04/apple-to-launch-low-cost-iphone-early-2020/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/09/04/apple-to-launch-low-cos...
- sobani 7y ago
  If I understand that article correctly, given the rumored size, it will be more like a budget iPhone 8, than a new SE.
  - jzl 7y ago
    Not sure I understand what you mean by that. The rumored size is 4.7 inches, like the SE. The SE has basically the same innards as the 6s, so this seems like an upgrade to the innards of the 8. Maybe we're saying the same thing? An SE with the innards of the 8 and hopefully a more edge-to-edge screen and possibly even FaceID would be warmly welcomed by current SE owners, I think.
    - sobani 7y ago
      According to Wikipedia[0] the SE has a 4.0 inch screen. It's total height is 4.87 inches. So I'm not sure where you got the 4.7 inches for an SE from. Maybe you're confused with the 6S that did have a 4.7 inch screen? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE#Reception
      - jzl 7y ago
        Yep, you're right, I read the article too fast and missed some key lines. It clearly says "the form factor of an 8". I assumed it was calling it 4.7in because that would be roughly the screen size of an SE with an edge-to-edge display.
viach 7y ago
> So Apple doesn’t need to do this so much for business reasons. But I do think they should do this for other reasons. It is interesting to know someone thinks that such a successful mega Corp like Apple has or even should have some other reasons besides business.
daviddumon 7y ago
That's it, I just replaced my old iphone 6 for a refurbished SE. It's a shame, really. I don't mind paying the iphone 11 pro max price for something that hold in my hand, but apparently the market disagree.
mandus 7y ago
I was holding my old iPhone3 in my hands a few days ago (one of my kids have collected a few phones in the house over the years). It felt so good, light and small. I really long for a phone in that form-factor again, the big phones of today is just silly.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
stjohnswarts 7y ago
I think most people who like the SE have small hands, and I don't know why apple would dismiss that market. I have finger sausages so I appreciate the bigger screen and keyboard. I think apple thinks in terms of sheer profit and don't care about people with small hands and small pockets. Little do they know the small hands will pay a premium as well to have an Apple so even that doesn't really make any sense except to bean counters in cubes.

604 points by abhi3 7y ago

The article says Apple "... has stated that the next iOS update will not run on the old SE hardware." Not true. iOS 13's compatibility list includes iPhone SE (near the bottom): https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13/ https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13/

tlrobinson 7y ago

I currently use a gigantic iPhone X, but I found my old iPhone 5S (basically the same design as the SE) the other day and was amazed at how small it was. That was one of Apple's great designs.

cydonian_monk 7y ago

I'll chime in as another iPhone SE supporter. I'm still rocking mine, which itself replaced a four year old iPhone 5. Best form factor of any such device I've ever owned. I replaced the battery in both after two years, as the iPhone 5 one was completely shot and the one in my SE was not doing well (and at whatever Apple considers 75%). Otherwise both have been near bulletproof.

paul7986 7y ago

Yes .. iPhone 8 size and below.. please. Current sizes are too big to use in one hand without having to reposition the phone (my pet peeve). Touch ID as well. Preferred over Face ID... grab phone with thumb it opens instantly (my personal experience). Another year for myself Im not refreshing my iPhone. I did every year from 2009 to 2018; bought the XS last year and returned it. EDITED

MuffinFlavored 7y ago
You use a 10 year old phone?
- function_seven 7y ago
  He's bought the new model each year, until this year.
jcampbell1 7y ago
I was in your camp, then I got a ring that sticks to the back of the phone. I stopped using a case because I no longer drop my phone, and have even started really stupid things like texting while biking. A ring let's you use bigger phones one handed. Those popper things are more popular but inferior in every aspect.
- paul7986 7y ago
  Cool, but still no Touch ID as well. One step .. grab my phone with thumb and it's open even before meeting my face.

033803throwaway 7y ago

Or someone, anyone, make a functional clone of it. I don't care much which OS I have to run, they are all the same now. I just want a smart phone that fits in a single hand. I tried the palm and it is a bit too small, and the battery life was insanely bad.

Apocryphon 7y ago
> I don't care much which OS I have to run Maybe Purism could think about making a Librem 4 after the 5 releases. Double-down on the hacker-hobbyist niche.
- als0 7y ago
  > Double-down on the hacker-hobbyist niche. Might be hard to sell for a sensible price in that case.
  - opencl 7y ago
    It's already not what most people would call a sensible price. Seems difficult to significantly shrink a phone that has a pair of M.2 slots in it though.
- thinkmassive 7y ago
  Pine64 is going for that angle with the PinePhone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ The specs are far from the Librem 5, and software support is basically DIY, but at $150 it might be worth trying if you want a Linux hobbyist phone.
ehsankia 7y ago
Is Pixel 3a / Samsung s10e too big for your taste? It's not much bigger than the SE.
- phinnaeus 7y ago
  Is this a joke? https://phonesized.com/compare/#632,1182 https://phonesized.com/compare/#632,1182

ruffrey 7y ago

I won't upgrade from this old used SE until some phone manufacturer produces a working phone that will fit in a pocket. It boggles the mind. I tried the Jelly Pro, which ran Slack and a handful of critical apps, but the battery life was only a few hours.

dpflan 7y ago
Agreed, pocket-sized phone is crucial, unless I should be buying JNCO jeans (but I thought that trend died away).
- devinjflick 7y ago
  Lucky for you and your giant phone! Now you can spend an outrageous amount for outrageous jeans for your outrageously large phone. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jnco-jeans-comeback-cost-250_l_5d1a696ce4b082e5536dfb62 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jnco-jeans-comeback-cost-250_...
  - dpflan 7y ago
    Thank you, yes, my wardrobe needed an upgrade. I can store my jeans inside my jeans too.
briandear 7y ago
How small are your pockets? I have an iPhone X and it fits just fine.
- robin_reala 7y ago
  My X fits in some of my pockets but not all. I’d definitely go down to a smaller phone if Appel made one; the size jump from SE to X was a bit of a shock.
- iamnotacrook 7y ago
  Yeah, Honor Play was £260 or something, 6.3" but fits in all my pockets and has almost the power of a flagship. How small are these people's pockets, and how do you, I dunno, play chess or read articles or check out how your photo turned out?

dpflan 7y ago

Cool, another supporter of a smaller iPhone. I upgraded my SE to a newer SE after buying a clearance SE from the Apple store. If they could make a high res. screen that essentially is the entire front of the phone (ala the trend for larger phones), I'd be impressed and upgrade. I wonder what data is motivating Apple with regard to phone sizes. I assume trends towards video and image consumption are really pushing for larger screens. Anyone have any insight or knowledge?

JansjoFromIkea 7y ago
On one side having a significantly smaller screen to cater to limits app developers quite a bit, so removing the 320px option would be welcomed there. Another factor is the things that drive a person to spend $500+ on a phone are probably quite far removed from what they actually want from a phone from day to day. A big huge all encompassing screen is gonna outperform something that actually fits in your pocket every time.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > On one side having a significantly smaller screen to cater to limits app developers quite a bit, so removing the 320px option would be welcomed there. I develop iOS apps and love my iPhone SE. It's a bit difficult to develop for that screen size, but it's only a little bit of additional effort and I wouldn't give up my phone for that. Plus, even if iPhone SE went away there are new devices with that form factor (for example, the new iPod Touch) that will be supported for quite some time.
  - dpflan 7y ago
    I've noticed this: web apps for mobile and even iOS apps seem to spill over. Is there a tool for helping you to develop for the varying screen sizes? (SE surely is an outlier here, but still, the question stands).
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      Honestly, the biggest one is just using the device regularly: you'll be able to tell what'll work and what won't a lot easier. It's clear when people design an interface for a device they haven't used (even Apple does this for certain apps). Get a physical iPhone SE (they're quite cheap) and use it as a development device. Or even better, use it as your actual device.

temuze 7y ago

Mostly, I hope they bring TouchID back, preferably via a scanner on the back of the phone. Outside of providing a bigger screen, FaceID is strictly worse: - When I pulled my old iPhone out of my pocket, I would have my finger on the scanner and it would be unlocked before it reached my face. With FaceID on the iPhone X, I have to wait a few seconds. - If you wake up and you're squinting as you look at your phone, FaceID won't work - If you're wearing a hat and sunglasses, FaceID might not work - If you're doing something else but you want to unlock your phone on the side in preparation for your next task, you have to stop and look at the phone

wlesieutre 7y ago
FaceID works a lot better with gloves on than TouchID did.
- draw_down 7y ago
  Yeah, and touch ID works better in basically every other circumstance.
- shantly 7y ago
  My TouchID drops to like a 10% success rate if the humidity's much different from it was on whatever day I set it up. Or if I've done any work with my hands in the last week or so and roughed my fingers up a bit. Or if I've looked at water in the last hour. I've configured it several times and it never gets much better. I end up using the code most of the time. Probably need to just disable it, it fails so consistently that it'd be faster just to use the code every time. That's on a 7+, though, and Macbook fingerprint sensors seem a little better (more like 50% success rate) so maybe it's just because it's an early version of the hardware.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    I don’t have humidity problems but it’s a nuisance in the kitchen if I have a recipe up on the iPad. Whatever’s on my hands I have to wash off and then thoroughly dry. Depending on how messy my hands are, sometimes I’ll swipe sideways and type in the passcode with a clean knuckle. If I didn’t need clean fingers to unlock TouchID to begin with, iPad OS’s new voice control accessibility feature would be great for in the kitchen. No need to touch the tablet at all any more.

jtth 7y ago

It's coming in the spring.

rchaud 7y ago
It's rumoured to have a 4.7-inch screen, so probably not much smaller than the iPhone 6,7 and 8, even if they are able to reduce the top bezels somewhat.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  Based on the math in this thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20932102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20932102 a 4.7 inch screen with similar bezels to an X would be about .1 inches smaller than an 5S/SE.
symlinkk 7y ago
According to who?
- baxrob 7y ago
  "Apple is also working on its first low-cost iPhone since the iPhone SE. That could come out as early as the first half of 2020, the people said. The device would look similar to the iPhone 8 and include a 4.7-inch screen." -- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-05/apple-working-on-in-display-fingerprint-id-for-future-iphones https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-05/apple-wor... According to gsmarena.com iPhone 8 is 4.7" and SE is 4.0"

ljm 7y ago

The SE must be my favourite phone ever since the Nokia 3310 (although the Yotaphone was up there for pure novelty of having an e-ink display on the reverse). It was practically perfect and it could take more of a beating than the latest X series phones. An SE sized X would be nice (with the Face ID and stuff), with a higher screen resolution, but I think it would become more fragile as a result.

bryanlarsen 7y ago

Presumably Apple doesn't make a new SE because it would kill their margins. And it'd be hard for them to make the SE expensive because it would probably be thicker, with a cheaper screen, worse battery life and worse performance (because of battery & cooling). But I'm sure they could come up with some semi-plausible reason to make an "SE Pro" so they can keep those margins. How about owning the extra thickness and giving it a massive battery and using the depth to put killer camera optics in?

oneplane 7y ago
I doubt a company like Apple would re-introduce a product like the SE which at this point is that far off the current median product range they manufacture.
kgwgk 7y ago
If they can make money selling a $450 iPhone 8 they can surely make money selling the SE. If they made money selling it in 2017 why wouldn't they make money in 2019?
Apocryphon 7y ago
Pretty insane that the most profitable company in the (history of the?) world is so risk adverse so as to obsess about margins.
- marceldegraaf 7y ago
  Off topic but I think that would be the Dutch East India Company (Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie or V.O.C.)
- als0 7y ago
  That's probably how they became the most profitable tech company in the first place.
  - Apocryphon 7y ago
    They also took risks, once

skrebbel 7y ago

> It is unlikely that any of my friends and family members are going to move to Android, where there is a wide variety of hardware form factors to choose from. There's hardly any good iPhone SE-sized Android phones anymore. I have a Sony Xperia Somethingsomething Compact and it's the only option I'm aware of, and it's not really that great. I've never had an iPhone but if they release a new SE I'd probably jump ship in a heartbeat.

pmontra 7y ago
I had to replace my Xperia X Compact (2016) recently. The latest Compacts weight much more and cost like flagship phones, which they are. However I'm not interested into something weighting so much and costing some 600 Euro. I compromised on a Samsung A40 which is the smallest modern Android phone I was able to find. It costs 200 Euros and weights 140 g. Compared to the Compact is a much better phone. Bezel less OLED screen and still the 3.5 audio jack. It's as wide as the Compact and thinner. Unfortunately the A40 is too long and I can feel the difference when I put it in the pockets on the legs of hiking trousers: it starts hindering movements. The shorter and thicker Compact didn't. And the extra 2 cm of length aren't really worth much. I would cut them off and still have a better phone than the Compact.
barbs 7y ago
I bought an iPhone SE earlier this year because I couldn't find an Android phone in that size (I'm an Android developer). I generally prefer Android as an OS but the size and form factor is excellent. I'm hoping there's a decent Android phone in an SE size by the time my SE dies.

ryacko 7y ago

I’ll repost an old comment: I’d like an iPod Touch with cellular. Until then, I’ll keep my iPhone SE and disable JavaScript.

mehrdada 7y ago

Keeping SE supported fragments iOS market and burden the developers. iPhone 8 is now the low-cost iPhone roughly at SE price point with a screen size that you kind of have to support anyway.

castis 7y ago
Removing the SE fragments the user base. I'll go to another hardware vendor to keep a hand-sized device.
- mehrdada 7y ago
  Android has never had good support for small devices, so I don't think that's a huge risk.
  - erigeron 7y ago
    The Android phones in 2013 were a pretty good size, small by today's standards.
  - projektfu 7y ago
    Android on the Jelly Pro was usable but recharging 2-3 times per day was not. Just a little bit bigger, please, to support a bigger battery and a slightly larger on-screen keyboard.
tfehring 7y ago
It's form factor too, not just price point. The form factor is the only reason I switched from Android, and I'd happily pay the full iPhone 11 price for a phone the size of an SE with iPhone 11 internals.

benologist 7y ago

Sometimes I use my SE to listen to music without headphones and it amazes me compared to the garbage speakers in my monitors.

gnicholas 7y ago

Anyone else having connection problems with AVC.com? I couldn't find an archive link.

stephc_int13 7y ago

My SE will probably be my last iOS device. iOS used to be much better than competition, but I don't think that's the case now. I never liked big-ass phones, and in my opinion the best iPhone design was the iPhone4, this one was a real masterpiece. But I won't pay a premium for a phone I don't like, when my SE will no longer do its job, it will be replaced by a cheap Android device.

oplav 7y ago
Do you use any other Apple products? I feel the same way about paying a premium for a phone I don't like, but iMessage is what is keeping me from switching (back) to Android. My personal computer is a 2014 MacBook. My work computer is a MacBook. Being able to message freely from my laptop to others on iMessage is a really nice feature.
- xnyan 7y ago
  With android you also can do this on MacOS, as well as Linux and Windows.
  - paulddraper 7y ago
    messages.android.com
  - OJFord 7y ago
    And then in a few months' time you can do it in a new app with a slightly different UI!
- anoncake 7y ago
  FYI, Telegram can also be used from a laptop without a phone being involved.
  - oplav 7y ago
    This requires the network I communicate with to move from iMessage, a platform that already works for them, to Telegram or any other app for my sake.

DevKoala 7y ago

Please do it. I would buy it on a heartbeat. I don’t like carrying this tablet sized display (XS). I miss my SE, it was just too sluggish and restarting too much when I replaced it. Also, I have a feeling that the reason why they don’t do it is because bigger screen generate more engagement.

dijit 7y ago

Every year I wait on bated breath at the release of a similarly compact phone to the SE. I even recently bought a new one right before they removed them from the store, so I have 2 year apple care+ for it to tide me over. Ordinarily I would vote with my wallet, but there are no compact Android phones either. Ironically I still own a Oneplus One which is quite old by todays standards; and I distinctly remember it being called a "Phablet" due to it's obtuse stature in comparison to its contemporaries. However it would not look out of place today, in fact in comparison to my friends iPhone Xs (not max) it hardly seems at all larger! I would merrily slam down 1K+ EUR for a real flagship phone at a size I can actually use. (also, I wonder how women get on, since generally they have smaller hands than men.)

RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u 7y ago
> (also, I wonder how women get on, since generally they have smaller hands than men.) PopSockets. In my neck of the woods they are almost as common as phone cases. Some men also use them.
- dijit 7y ago
  https://www.urbanoutfitters.com/shop/popsockets-tortoise-shell-phone-stand https://www.urbanoutfitters.com/shop/popsockets-tortoise-she... Oh wow, this is horrible.
  - kjeetgill 7y ago
    I don't know if you're unfamiliar or not but it flattens out.
    - irq 7y ago
      No it doesn’t. At least, it doesn’t go flat enough that it doesn’t disrupt wireless charging.
      - kjeetgill 7y ago

whycombagator 7y ago

Bring back TouchID too.

ch_123 7y ago

> Apple discontinued the iPhone SE at the tail end of 2018 and has stated that the next iOS update will not run on the old SE hardware. Apple has in fact stated that iOS 13 will run on the SE: https://www.apple.com/ie/ios/ios-13/ https://www.apple.com/ie/ios/ios-13/ I believe the internals are approximately the same as the 6S, and I would expect that both will be supported for the same amount of time.

javagram 7y ago
Came here to make the same comment. I don’t think Apple has confirmed any EOL for the SE. It’s not sold in the USA anymore, but isn’t it still produced in India for that market (maybe ending now that the 11 is announced, I’m not sure)?

ezequiel-garzon 7y ago

EDIT: Never mind, OP is right, I had this wrong. Thanks, 333c. Apple discontinued the iPhone SE at the tail end of 2018 Actually it was on September 12, 2017, the day they announced the iPhone X [1], even if they had it on sale for a while early this year. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE

333c 7y ago
You mis-quoted your source, which says September 12, 2018, which in my mind does count as the tail end of 2018.
- ezequiel-garzon 7y ago
  Oops! Thank you, I was so sure that I read it, and typed it, incorrectly. It was when they announced the iPhone XS then.

mythz 7y ago

I bought the SE for my kid ($149 on Amazon) as he was getting frustrated when using my old iPhone 4 which was slow and unresponsive. He absolutely loves it and I'm kind of jealous of how small, lightweight and portable it is vs my iPhone XS - definitely the best price/form factor for kids and can definitely see the appeal of smaller phones esp. if you don't spend a lot of time in using App's or browsing where the small screen real-estate hurts UX.

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gnicholas 7y ago

The SE would probably also be better from an environmental perspective, since it would use fewer materials. Why are they forcing everyone to buy big phones, whether they like them or not?

vernie 7y ago

Please give avc.com to someone who does video compression.

labster 7y ago

My work bought me an "upgrade" to the XR, as my SE is starting to show some battery issues. But after a day of playing with the XR, I put it back in the box to send back to Apple. Compared to the SE, the XR is 50% heavier -- even without a case. It doesn't have a good edge to hold onto being so thin, so it makes you want to hold on by the front. But every corner of the front of the device is a UI element that you can accidentally interact with. FaceID failed 90% of of the time for me -- and unlike the fingerprint reader, 100% of the time in the dark of night. That's before I get to the simple annoyances, like how it's not flat, doesn't fit in the pocket so well, and blasts my face full of light in the night. So Apple lost a sale by not offering a product I want. If my SE breaks, I'll probably just pull my iPhone 1 out of storage -- it still works, has a great form factor, and a much lighter weight than any of Apple's current lineup. Sure EDGE is a little slow and I won't be able to use my Apple Pay, but those are problems I can live with. I live on large screens all day. I don't need a huge phone to be my computer. I want a choice -- even if that choice is a remanufacture of a 2016 design. An updated design -- say an SE/30 -- would be great. But between that and the keyboard issues in the Macbooks, they've made an Apple fan with upgrades provided by work skip several product cycles. I read enough of these threads to know I'm not the only one. I just wish I knew why they kept leaving money on the table in the pursuit of thinness.

TacticalTable 7y ago
> EDGE is a little slow Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe EDGE has been disabled across a lot of the US.
- joecool1029 7y ago
  Nationally it's only used by T-Mobile in very small amounts of spectrum, and only as fallback of last resort or for legacy things like burglar alarms. Regionally, there might be some rural specialty carriers using it (stuff like indigo wireless for the mining industry). AT&T shut their footprint off completely a few years ago to free up spectrum in 850mhz.
Synaesthesia 7y ago
The iPhone 1 is like comically slow by today’s standards.

K2h 7y ago

Paid $299 for a new old stock from apple - 128GB SE. I looked at which of the modem bands fit my use case the best and got the T-mobile version. My second se, upgraded from 16GB version when camera optics seriously degraded after rugged use, and found apple charges for a whole phone to change the lens. Love the phone. I told IT when they asked what phone i wanted to “get me the small one - to fit in my skinny jeans”. I don't wear skinny jeans, but they got the point.

ricardobeat 7y ago

I bought a new SE earlier this year, but managed to completely shatter the screen twice and gave up on it. Still holding onto a 6S.

Synaesthesia 7y ago
6S is great, I still love mine.

gumby 7y ago

I think Apple's answer to that is a watch with LTE. Seriously. My GF controls her apple watch by voice, glances at imessages on the screen and replies by voice, and really only pulls out her phone when seated or waiting-while-standing. I doubt a modernized SE-sized device could meet Apple's margin needs.

AznHisoka 7y ago

Has anyone experienced more frequent RSI or carpal tunnel syndrome (or any hand pain) as a result of using the larger iPhones? It might just be me, but ever since I transitioned from the old iPhone 4's to the iPhone Plus', I have had more instances of random hand-related pain.

Synaesthesia 7y ago

The iPhone 7 can be gotten for quite cheap these days and it’s a nice size IMO

graeme 7y ago

I would absolutely through money at a better phone, but I'm holding out with an iPhone 8 because anything bigger heavier is uncomfortable. There are rumours to 2020 flag ship will be smaller, I'm looking forward to that.

mrbonner 7y ago

I have an 7 plus and will hold on to it for as long as I could until a smaller iPhone (<4.5 in) comes along.

hnsocks 7y ago

Apple start to be dead in interest level of app creators. Too much restrictions..no go zone for many

kingkawn 7y ago

Still using an SE, it’s the best

gkolli 7y ago

I apologize if this is a naive question, but why doesn't Apple continue to sell the SE if it was popular and there is a continued market for it?

TacticalTable 7y ago
Nobody besides Apple knows the exact reason(s), but I'd guess it's because they determined that enough users were attached to the ecosystem that they could upsell more of them on a larger/more-expensive phone, than they would lose to competitors. Presumably that profit difference is smaller than the cost to develop a new form factor.

post_break 7y ago

I feel like the only one who thinks the Xs size is perfect compared to the SE. If you polled everyone online they just want the SE.

eddywebs 7y ago

Ive been using SE since the first day it came out and refuse to upgrade for the same reason stated in the post. Just yesterday I was stopped at the airport and security asked me that phone is so small is this new? I had to respond "no its an old iphone". I have been repeatedly made fun of using a tiny phone while whenever somebody makes this comment back in my mind I think the jokes on you. Can't agree more with the sentiment here, great minds do think alike ;)

davidjnelson 7y ago

I wish Apple would make a good product. I’d be thrilled to drop a grand to get better cpu, storage, ram, and camera. But if I have to give up the phone not falling out of my pockets and breaking, the removal of the aux jack, and the removal of Touch ID, why bother? Are my interests unusual? Do they not want money? I don’t get it.

redisman 7y ago

Is there even a good 4" Android to switch over to at this point? Their flagship phones also seem to be slowly expanding.

erigeron 7y ago
There's not even good stuff in the 4.7" to 5.2" range anymore.
- aidenn0 7y ago
  https://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/xperia-xz2-compact/ https://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/xperia-xz2-com...
  - raynr 7y ago
    The xz2c was a step down in many ways from the xz1c. Just off the top of my head, no headphone jack (I use mine almost daily), back-mounted fingerprint sensor (that's not how I use my phone), fatter and bigger, less battery life, and front-facing selfie camera is not wide angle.
odiroot 7y ago
The last one was Sony Xperia XZ Compact.
- Nition 7y ago
  Close, but even that smallish phone was 4.6".

donohoe 7y ago

Yes - the form factor of the SE is just unbeatable. I've remain surprised that Apple moved to and stays with the current form factor.

aeharding 7y ago

My next phone after the SE will hopefully be a standalone Apple Watch (Cellular) with some AirPods. Once watchOS grows independent enough from the iPhone...

bobajeff 7y ago
That's pretty much my thoughts on the matter. At some point some company is going to come out with a really good stand-alone smartwatch. And that will take the place of small phones and probably even regular sized phones.

pcmaffey 7y ago

I just retired my 5s and bought an SE for $100 from a 12 year old. It's even rose gold hah. Only reason my 5s needed to go was because it doesn't support VoLTE, which the SE does, and is needed to get calls at my house. As others have said, would totally spend $900 on a similar sized phone with upgraded internals. But, looks like I'll just hold onto this one for ever...

acqq 7y ago

I'm also still using an SE and I'm not sure what I will do if it breaks. I want Apple iOS, but I definitely want the size of SE and nothing bigger. And the 3.5 headphone jack. And the not-too-curved edge so that I can it can stay on it. I'd pay 500 for a newer model with a newer CPU.

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jeffkeen 7y ago

Seriously. This giant phone trend is nonsense. Nonsense! I'm a 6'5" man with large hands who still swears by an SE, despite being mocked by friends and strangers whenever I pull out my "tiny phone". I had a 6S and promptly ditched it for an SE after feeling like the thing was designed to slip out of my enormous hands. That whole "reachability" feature they added when they started with this phablet obsession was basically an admission of guilt—"Yeah, this phone is too big for your hands and goes completely against our brilliant ad campaign about the phone vs hand size, but Samsung made a big phone and people are buying it! We're scared they're taking our customers away so we're making big phones now. Here's a workaround." Thanks, I hate it. As someone holding on tightly to an out of date iPhone and a 2015 MacBook Pro (oh my god, the current laptop keyboard/trackpad/port situation is a whole 'nother even more intense rant), I think Apple has fucking lost it product-wise. I'm saying this as someone who has been on Apple products since 1987 and lived through the dark days of Apple in the 90s. To me it's an example of what happens when you put a finance guy and not a product guy at the top of the totem pole. Instead of asking "is this product the best it could be?" the thought process seems to be "Will this product make money? How can it make MORE money?" "Yeah, it doesn't sit on a table flat anymore, but it'll sell when we market it as 'THE SHINIEST IPHONE EVER'" "It sure is awkward to use one handed, but it'll sell when we market it as 'THE NEWEST IPHONE WE'VE EVER MADE'" Bigger and bigger iPhones with better and better cameras and more and more letters tacked on to the end will sell to a captive audience when Apple has the brand power they do. And that might seem good enough when all you're doing is comparing yourself to what the rest of the market is releasing, and when market success is beating last year's sales. But is that the Apple we want? Nope. I want my Apple back. The SE was the last phone form-factor that still had Steve Job's approval on it, and it sucks that it's so obvious.

mumblemumble 7y ago
> mocked by friends and strangers whenever I pull out my "tiny phone". Interesting. I don't often get mocked for having an SE, but I do often have people asking what model my phone is and where they can get one. My current hope is that we might see something like the SE come back now that Jony Ive's had at least a glancing blow from the boot. Maybe now Apple's at least a little bit more able to resist the constant drive to make the phones wider and wider so that they can fit the same amount of electronics and battery into a thinner and thinner device.

irae 7y ago

Here is my plan: Buy old broken iPhone SEs and go to Apple support to get a replacement for whatever their price is. I'll get one for replacing mine (battery issues) and one for myself in the future, in case they really stop manufacturing it. Shame on Apple.

rock_artist 7y ago

At least I’m happy to see small form factor still got audience.

irae 7y ago

The bad news is: There is no Android alternative either. Phones with 4" and good processing powers and reasonable cameras just don't exist. Really dire situation. I guess I have one more year with iOS 13 before I'll need to get used to use an outdated iOS.

nico_h 7y ago

my SE 64GB is nearing the end of it’s useful life (battery is old, dust on the front and main camera, broken back glass ). I’m looking into either a second hand 128GB SE or getting an out of warranty repair. The small size and one handedness are just essential features in so many situations. i really wish they made an updated SE with a full screen front and updated cameras. And the real black aluminium back. from the iphone 5.

jblake 7y ago

Love my SE. Replaced the battery for $15 off Amazon yesterday. With replacements available on ebay for under $100, I don't have to baby my phone or use a case. If apple offered a modern SE, I'd probably buy it, but I'm also quite happy with my SE as-is. If the SE wasn't getting iOS 13, I don't know what I'd do... thankfully it is.

meddlepal 7y ago

I suspect the popularity of the large form factor phones is boomers who have aging eyesight and motor skills.

irae 7y ago

For everyone here saying they can't vote with their wallet. You actually can. Apple is so proud of costumer satisfaction. Just buy whatever phone, use it for a day, restore backup to your SE and return the phone saying large screens are not for you. They will see it both as costumer satisfaction statistics and from reactivation of your beloved iPhone SE

raldi 7y ago

No, bring back the iPhone 4S. It was the perfect size and shape. You could even stand it on its side, due to the flat edges. And the square corners made it easier to grip. Even the iPhone 5 was too big.

chrismatheson 7y ago

Maybe we just aren’t the target market for Apple phones.

sangd 7y ago

I owned the SE for ~3 years and I always loved how capable the phone is. It worked well almost like any new iPhone and it has surprisingly good camera too. I recently switched to the Pixel 3A when it came out because the camera was the main reason. After a few months, I see that Pixel 3A camera doesn't look as truthful as my old SE. Even though the video has optical stabilizer, it doesn't feel as smooth as my SE, and the quality is actually disappointingly worse than my SE. I miss my SE. I do wish Apple update the SE with a new version and I would definitely buy it.

irae 7y ago

> Presumably Apple doesn't make a new SE because it would kill their margins. I think that is not the case. They could just build something with A12 or A13 chip, call it "iPhone Mini" and have high margins again. I think the real deal is mainboard design, case design and all the manufacturing pipeline can't scale to 4 models a year. They are focusing on the XR and now they even removed the suffix. They realized the cheaper model must be big enough. So every year they spend the resources there. Maybe next year, they can spend one cycle doing a 4" screen form factor, since this year all the announcements have at least 2 cameras. So maybe next year the Pro will have only one screen size and they can do regular, mini and pro. Each with a different display size.

kaycebasques 7y ago

My SE is still serving me well. The small form factor was definitely the deciding factor for me. I like being able to comfortably sit down with my phone in my front pocket.

mhd 7y ago

I really liked my SE/30. Even had Ethernet.

programminggeek 7y ago

I think the Google Pixel 3a is the best reasonably sized and reasonably priced phone for most people. Performance is good, camera is great, price is sensible.

slyrus 7y ago

Here I was thinking the author was suggesting bringing back the Macintosh SE, but with, oh, a retina display, 12 cores, 4 TB of SSD, powerful mini-speakers, and ... a small drink-refrigerator or maybe a place to hold a potted plant. That would have been cool.

minieggs 7y ago

Nothing wrong with the current SE. I’m typing on it now. :-) (other than all the websites that stopped testing on small screens... looking at you Reddit). https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwe4m83my4zj4ul/Photo%20Sep%2010%2C%209%2022%2037%20AM.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwe4m83my4zj4ul/Photo%20Sep%2010%2...

Apreche 7y ago

Remember with iPods they kept trying to make them smaller and smaller? iPhone nano or iPhone Air please.

davej 7y ago

I've been stuck on the iPhone SE since release and refuse to switch even though the home button is broken. I would consider switching to Android if a manufacturer released a premium phone with SE-like dimensions. There's literally nothing on the market with a decent spec anymore. "Compact" phones now have screens that are > 6 inches.

rbrbr 7y ago

And don’t forget that a new iPhone with the size of an SE but design of the X would have a display size of around the iPhone 6/7/8 and make those phones entirely obsolete yet being smaller.

layer8 7y ago

According to rumors, the 2020 iPhone Pro will be reduced from 5.8" to 5.4", which could look like this (size comparison including SE): https://blogs.forbes.com/gordonkelly/files/2019/06/New-iPhone-5.4-inch-Edited.jpg https://blogs.forbes.com/gordonkelly/files/2019/06/New-iPhon... However that size would still be significantly wider horizontally than the SE, pretty much as wide as the 6/7/8 (which I found too wide for comfortable one-handed use). In addition, they would probably keep the on/off button on the side instead of relocating it back to the top. The latter would be my preference, also for consistency with the iPads. When I owned both an iPhone 6 and an iPad mini, my muscle memory couldn't quite get used to the inconsistency of the on/off button location.

dkraft 7y ago

LOL. As if popular demand has to do with anything. "Its shiny, they'll love it."

rtpg 7y ago

> It is unlikely that any of my friends and family members are going to move to Android, where there is a wide variety of hardware form factors to choose from. The iOS lockin is very powerful. The worst thing is that despite this there are basically no high-end small phones in Android either! Once you look at phones smaller than like 5 inches you get into very weird or super low-end phones that are basically unusable. Hell, even the iphone 8 and X is smaller than most androids

bartwe 7y ago

I asked a phoneseller friend about it 'People don't want those phones' was the answer.

345218435 7y ago
„those“??

pkorzeniewski 7y ago

I can't believe that despite sooo many smartphone models there isn't even ONE under 5 inch with a good camera. Two years ago I bought one of the cheapest smartphones on the market (Alcatel Pixi with 4 inch screen) because it was the smallest one I could find - it has the perfect form factor and is good enough for most stuff I use, but one thing I really miss is a good camera. I waited for something better in that size to show up but the phones just get bigger and bigger...

KiSM 7y ago
I feel that, IMO the Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact is about the b̶e̶s̶t only premium compact phone. No confirmed successor and it was a bit pricey too...
- Nition 7y ago
  I looked at that phone as an option a while ago but it's relatively huge compared to the SE. The screen is 25% larger. I realize it's also the smallest recent high-end Android phone though!

Khaine 7y ago

I want a smaller size phone as well. Give me something the size of the original iPhone.

zzleeper 7y ago

Silly question, but what does he mean by the iOS lock-in? I have both an Android (personal) and iphone (work) and don't find anything particularly appealing about the iphone wrt to a much much cheaper Huawei (besides a faster camera)

3ef53e78e42b 7y ago

Make sure to give Apple the feedback directly: https://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html https://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html Not likely it will change any strategic direction, but more official feedback might sway things a tiny bit.

pdonis 7y ago

So let me get this straight: the author admits Apple doesn't need to do this for business reasons, but is asking them to be nice and do it for other reasons? And the option of, you know, using one's market power to give Apple an incentive to do it for business reasons isn't on the table? Does the term "self-inflicted wound" ring a bell?

saurik 7y ago
The argument is that due to all of the other lock-in effects, users don't really have the choice of switching to another smaller device (which, fwiw, doesn't even really exist anymore either: the world seems to have decided high quality small phones are a bad idea).
- pdonis 7y ago
  > due to all of the other lock-in effects Which have been common knowledge about Apple for longer than plenty of Apple users have been alive. And if users choose to keep on being users when they know full well what Apple is up to, again, self-inflicted wound.

maz1b 7y ago

I believe in voting with my dollars. I will be waiting for a smaller size phone that doesn't compromise on hardware and features, and if Apple doesn't make it within a year or so, then I'll start to look at alternatives. People talk about how Tim Cook is a logistics master, so it shouldn't be difficult to do a smaller sized phone. I don't want a cheaper, lower quality phone, I just want an iPhone XS that's smaller.

coolandsmartrr 7y ago

My quick prediction is that if Apple intends to continue with the SE, they would quietly announce it around spring next year. Announcing an SE at this time may cannibalize holiday seasons sales.

foobarbecue 7y ago

I use the Sony xperia compact / minis. They are great!

627467 7y ago

I used to think that compact sized phone such as SE (or Sony compact range) were perfect size for me. Until I got a Galaxy S8 and realized that, as long as width is ok, I can stand a long screen. Even the S9 (at about 1mm wider) feels too wide.

colinmegill 7y ago

> iOS lockin is very powerful Loved the smaller form factor and switched to Pixel when the phones got bigger and more expensive. But I didn't feel the software lockin — I was using Google maps, mail, cal, docs, etc., plus Spotify etc., etc., and that became easier when I switched to the Pixel, less fighting with the OS. Have others found the switch difficult?

Illniyar 7y ago

You expect apple to do what their users want? That's nonsense, users have no idea what they want. Besides, the article is completely missing the point - the user should just grow bigger hands.

thanatos_dem 7y ago

Apparently Apple has given up on the whole “common sense thing” that the touted during the iPhone 5 days - https://youtu.be/O99m7lebirE https://youtu.be/O99m7lebirE

zkhalique 7y ago

If you still use an SE you're instantly my friend. This is a battle worth fighting.

345218435 7y ago

i love all the things an iphone has to offer. but on top i have the following three requirements. 1. need to reach all screen corners with one thumb: one-handed usage 2. be flat on all sides, don‘t fucking wobble: no bulges 3. i will touch it for interaction; don‘t look at me: touch id now, looking at what apple serially delivers, these things are not impossible for them to achieve. the question is, why do they go the other way and try to sell me phones too slim to properly house the camera.

sbr464 7y ago

I don’t mind the larger phones, but I feel a lot of work could be done on keeping all input to one side or the other, easing single digit input.

femto113 7y ago

I still have my first iPhone, a 3G with the curved back. Every once in a while I pick it up and always marvel at how comfortable it is in my hand compared to the iPhone X I use now. I oouldn't possibly go back to using a screen that small but would definitely give up some screen size to regain a bit of that old "nice to hold" feel.

prvc 7y ago

Does anyone have a source for the claim of dropped support in iOS 14?

shifto 7y ago

I have a SE for work but a Xiaomi Mi 9 for personal use. I just can't get used to iOS and the small SE. Cant type a decent message on it and the UI, although easy, just makes me feel I'm missing out on efficiency. Not to mention I don't really care for apple products besides my old iPod (and of course the old stuff like the Apple][).

dijit 7y ago
Choice is good. I’m glad you have options that work for you. I don’t unless I use a 5 year old phone that may no longer be maintained.
shifto 7y ago
It's funny how saying you don't like apple gets you downvotes on HN. Imo it's weird technical minded people like on here even think good of apple but that's probably just me.

jzl 7y ago

Macrumors just reported the other day that there may in fact be an SE 2 or equivalent coming in the spring: https://www.macrumors.com/2019/09/04/apple-to-launch-low-cost-iphone-early-2020/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/09/04/apple-to-launch-low-cos...

sobani 7y ago
If I understand that article correctly, given the rumored size, it will be more like a budget iPhone 8, than a new SE.
- jzl 7y ago
  Not sure I understand what you mean by that. The rumored size is 4.7 inches, like the SE. The SE has basically the same innards as the 6s, so this seems like an upgrade to the innards of the 8. Maybe we're saying the same thing? An SE with the innards of the 8 and hopefully a more edge-to-edge screen and possibly even FaceID would be warmly welcomed by current SE owners, I think.
  - sobani 7y ago
    According to Wikipedia[0] the SE has a 4.0 inch screen. It's total height is 4.87 inches. So I'm not sure where you got the 4.7 inches for an SE from. Maybe you're confused with the 6S that did have a 4.7 inch screen? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE#Reception
    - jzl 7y ago
      Yep, you're right, I read the article too fast and missed some key lines. It clearly says "the form factor of an 8". I assumed it was calling it 4.7in because that would be roughly the screen size of an SE with an edge-to-edge display.

viach 7y ago

> So Apple doesn’t need to do this so much for business reasons. But I do think they should do this for other reasons. It is interesting to know someone thinks that such a successful mega Corp like Apple has or even should have some other reasons besides business.

daviddumon 7y ago

That's it, I just replaced my old iphone 6 for a refurbished SE. It's a shame, really. I don't mind paying the iphone 11 pro max price for something that hold in my hand, but apparently the market disagree.

mandus 7y ago

I was holding my old iPhone3 in my hands a few days ago (one of my kids have collected a few phones in the house over the years). It felt so good, light and small. I really long for a phone in that form-factor again, the big phones of today is just silly.

deleted 7y ago

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stjohnswarts 7y ago

I think most people who like the SE have small hands, and I don't know why apple would dismiss that market. I have finger sausages so I appreciate the bigger screen and keyboard. I think apple thinks in terms of sheer profit and don't care about people with small hands and small pockets. Little do they know the small hands will pay a premium as well to have an Apple so even that doesn't really make any sense except to bean counters in cubes.