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> The comment above talking about "shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable" is a nod to the subtlety of what contributes to this. I see no "n

> The comment above talking about "shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable" is a nod to the subtlety of what contributes to this. I see no "nod to subtlety" as you claim. All I see is a claim that one employee's overwork is what enables the boss to force you into overwork. For this to happen one needs 1) routine culture of overwork, 2) and employer who leans into this fact, and 3) an inability or unwillingness to push-back. If you solve for #3 you've made #1 and #2 irrelevant. Calling for others to stop willingly work as much reminds me of an old film I'd seen as a kid wherein a new employee starts at a loading dock, and after his first highly performant day the old-timers come along and give him a talking to about his making them look bad. You'll only look bad if your team and boss expect the "above and beyond" to become the new norm, and this isn't a rule. It is a result of shit conditions. Just as expecting your coworkers to go above and beyond is bad, so is chiding them for willingly working harder than you.

LocalH 7y ago
Calling people "cowards" who may individually be in no position to push back, doesn't really help the problem. It drips of condescension. Your point is sound. It's also more ascerbic than it needs to be.
asveikau 7y ago
I think you underestimate how easy it is for a CEO, manager, or even high-performing/high-status peer or IC to set the tone and give implicit instruction to others without ever intending to do it. I have seen it in very mundane things that are not nearly of the magnitude of consequence of this topic. And also, in big things, such as expectations around working hours and standing up to unreasonable requirements. Perhaps one aspect is that if a behavior is perceived to be a path to success in an organization, it will be emulated, rightly or wrongly, consciously or not. It's important to create an environment where many can thrive.
i_cant_speel 7y ago
Maybe you can "push back" and get out of additional work. But when it's that time of year for raises or promotions, who do you think is going to be the first in line?
rdtwo 7y ago
When has any production/productivity increase not become the new norm? Have you ever finished a 6 month job in 5 and been given 6 months again the next time. Everywhere I’ve worked if you finish a month early you just get 2 months less the next time because obviously you weren’t challenged enough

LocalH 7y ago

Calling people "cowards" who may individually be in no position to push back, doesn't really help the problem. It drips of condescension. Your point is sound. It's also more ascerbic than it needs to be.

asveikau 7y ago

I think you underestimate how easy it is for a CEO, manager, or even high-performing/high-status peer or IC to set the tone and give implicit instruction to others without ever intending to do it. I have seen it in very mundane things that are not nearly of the magnitude of consequence of this topic. And also, in big things, such as expectations around working hours and standing up to unreasonable requirements. Perhaps one aspect is that if a behavior is perceived to be a path to success in an organization, it will be emulated, rightly or wrongly, consciously or not. It's important to create an environment where many can thrive.

i_cant_speel 7y ago

Maybe you can "push back" and get out of additional work. But when it's that time of year for raises or promotions, who do you think is going to be the first in line?

rdtwo 7y ago

When has any production/productivity increase not become the new norm? Have you ever finished a 6 month job in 5 and been given 6 months again the next time. Everywhere I’ve worked if you finish a month early you just get 2 months less the next time because obviously you weren’t challenged enough