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This also applies to new technologies and skill gaps. I'm over 30, and have stopped following the latest javascript trends. I want younger people to be satisf

This also applies to new technologies and skill gaps. I'm over 30, and have stopped following the latest javascript trends. I want younger people to be satisfied with the tools that I learned; they're perfectly adequate. The treadmill of re-inventing the technology wheel also looks like a prison.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
The struggle with that is how do you step off the treadmill but stay relatively current. I think about how web pages looked 10 years ago, and in a world of React, I feel like very, very few of the things I learned then help me for more than the very, very basics.
- dcolkitt 7y ago
  The reality is that engineers with a strong foundation in the fundamentals can pretty much pick up any new technology. The details are different, but the underlying principles of software engineering, algorithms, data structure, distributed systems, etc. are the same. I guarantee you that a talented kernel hacker, with a few weeks of reading the docs and writing some toy examples, would be just as productive in React as the front-end developer with years of experience. I work in a pretty niche industry, where hiring people with specific experience in the tech stack is rare or impossible. So, I see this up-close and personal all the time. Fluid intelligence, an understanding of computer science fundamentals, and a demonstrated history of delivering results trumps specialized experience with the specific technology. Every. Single. Time. Keeping this in mind relieves some of the anxiety of keeping on the treadmill. You might feel like if you don't start getting experience with Kubernetes or Typescript or Airflow that you'll be left behind. The reality is that if you're smart, then if/when you need Kubernetes/Typescript/Airflow, you'll be able to pick it up in a week or two. I think some of the industry-wide problems with this come down to the fact that HR is too involved in the recruiting process. The typical job listing gets written by someone who's never written a line of code in their life. They just walk down to engineering, talk to the manager, hear something like "we're using Kotlin", then decide to add "5 years of Kotlin experience required".
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    > I work in a pretty niche industry, where hiring people with specific experience in the tech stack is rare or impossible. So, I see this up-close and personal all the time. Fluid intelligence, an understanding of computer science fundamentals, and a demonstrated history of delivering results trumps specialized experience with the specific technology. Every. Single. Time. I think that actually helps you look for generic skills and generally good people - if you're guaranteed that your interviewee doesn't have the direct skills your position requires, you look for the generic stuff. I don't know if that translates to other places, who like you said don't need someone smart who can roll with things, but instead a very particular set of skills.
- pault 7y ago
  This isn't so much about React as that the expectations for web applications have skyrocketed in the last five years. Before 2012 or so you could call yourself a front end developer with good knowledge of html and CSS and little bit of javascript. If you were working in the industry back then and you're one of those people, you've had to teach yourself to be a proper software engineer in that relatively small amount of time. It's possible that the complexity growth curve has rounded off and over the next five years things will settle down and mature (fingers crossed).
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    > It's possible that the complexity growth curve has rounded off and over the next five years things will settle down and mature (fingers crossed). I really hope so.
    - edmundsauto 7y ago
      I suspect, right around the time this happens, a new "paradigm" will start, with new alpha frameworks and philosophies.
- jimbokun 7y ago
  Read and inwardly digest the Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. After that, whatever is next on the treadmill is just some new syntactic sugar on top of the fundamentals taught in that book, which you can pick up with a minimum of time and effort. Occasionally there is something truly new, but those are few and far between. Also, if you are seriously worried about your earning potential, read this and learn to really apply it, before picking up another Javascript framework: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/
whymauri 7y ago
Only on HackerNews can a somber discussion about family and lifelong priorities turn into dunking on javascript. Not a jab by any means, just amusing.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago

The struggle with that is how do you step off the treadmill but stay relatively current. I think about how web pages looked 10 years ago, and in a world of React, I feel like very, very few of the things I learned then help me for more than the very, very basics.

dcolkitt 7y ago
The reality is that engineers with a strong foundation in the fundamentals can pretty much pick up any new technology. The details are different, but the underlying principles of software engineering, algorithms, data structure, distributed systems, etc. are the same. I guarantee you that a talented kernel hacker, with a few weeks of reading the docs and writing some toy examples, would be just as productive in React as the front-end developer with years of experience. I work in a pretty niche industry, where hiring people with specific experience in the tech stack is rare or impossible. So, I see this up-close and personal all the time. Fluid intelligence, an understanding of computer science fundamentals, and a demonstrated history of delivering results trumps specialized experience with the specific technology. Every. Single. Time. Keeping this in mind relieves some of the anxiety of keeping on the treadmill. You might feel like if you don't start getting experience with Kubernetes or Typescript or Airflow that you'll be left behind. The reality is that if you're smart, then if/when you need Kubernetes/Typescript/Airflow, you'll be able to pick it up in a week or two. I think some of the industry-wide problems with this come down to the fact that HR is too involved in the recruiting process. The typical job listing gets written by someone who's never written a line of code in their life. They just walk down to engineering, talk to the manager, hear something like "we're using Kotlin", then decide to add "5 years of Kotlin experience required".
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  > I work in a pretty niche industry, where hiring people with specific experience in the tech stack is rare or impossible. So, I see this up-close and personal all the time. Fluid intelligence, an understanding of computer science fundamentals, and a demonstrated history of delivering results trumps specialized experience with the specific technology. Every. Single. Time. I think that actually helps you look for generic skills and generally good people - if you're guaranteed that your interviewee doesn't have the direct skills your position requires, you look for the generic stuff. I don't know if that translates to other places, who like you said don't need someone smart who can roll with things, but instead a very particular set of skills.
pault 7y ago
This isn't so much about React as that the expectations for web applications have skyrocketed in the last five years. Before 2012 or so you could call yourself a front end developer with good knowledge of html and CSS and little bit of javascript. If you were working in the industry back then and you're one of those people, you've had to teach yourself to be a proper software engineer in that relatively small amount of time. It's possible that the complexity growth curve has rounded off and over the next five years things will settle down and mature (fingers crossed).
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  > It's possible that the complexity growth curve has rounded off and over the next five years things will settle down and mature (fingers crossed). I really hope so.
  - edmundsauto 7y ago
    I suspect, right around the time this happens, a new "paradigm" will start, with new alpha frameworks and philosophies.
jimbokun 7y ago
Read and inwardly digest the Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. After that, whatever is next on the treadmill is just some new syntactic sugar on top of the fundamentals taught in that book, which you can pick up with a minimum of time and effort. Occasionally there is something truly new, but those are few and far between. Also, if you are seriously worried about your earning potential, read this and learn to really apply it, before picking up another Javascript framework: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

whymauri 7y ago

Only on HackerNews can a somber discussion about family and lifelong priorities turn into dunking on javascript. Not a jab by any means, just amusing.