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Of course those synthetic environments will be defended. There are LiDAR sensors that scan 1-2 kilometers now, those are already being installed at the boarder

Of course those synthetic environments will be defended. There are LiDAR sensors that scan 1-2 kilometers now, those are already being installed at the boarders of middle eastern countries. Connect those to some turrets that can fire, you have automated defence that works in the dark, rain, and fog. I've seen this technology first hand, heck I even helped build it. How are they going to raid if they cannot even get close to the defence walls? Advances in automated warfare will keep the rich safe and they wont have to get their hands dirty. They'll own the communication infrastructure so if things get bad first will be absolute surveillance then they can just pull the plug on communications if the outsiders get too rowdy. Self sustaining means you cant use scorched earth tactics. Internal power generation so no blackouts. Internal food production so no attrition warfare.

api 7y ago
I am way off topic right now, but this is what chills me about some of the ideologies that I see people perpetuating online. Ultimately whether we get the future we are discussing or something much better will depend on ideas. Be very careful what ideas you invest time and energy in perpetuating. Think through the consequences first. What would happen if this were actually believed by many people and by powerful people? If the dominant idea is that the value of a human being is quantitatively measurable as their contribution to GDP or their IQ, we get a future like we are discussing. Racism is the same idea but with a much less sophisticated metric.
alexisread 7y ago
Thing is, you'd have to oppress in this situation. If you're just sat tight then the masses can go elsewhere and build their own utopia. Im not sure that there's the stomach for active oppression throughout the whole of the ruling class. Additionally, comms being what they are, cheap mesh networks can win through attrition so the masses can simply go off channel and avoid monitoring. From there the only way to find out what they're doing is through trust ie. Be (or pretend but then the entry bar gets raised) a good actor at which point the oppression stops.
- malux85 7y ago
  The masses can go somewhere and build their own utopia?! This actually made me laugh out loud. The masses are mostly average and below. They are the people living paycheck to paycheck, the working among them are on the verge of employment induced burnout, and almost all of them have no savings, and little / no access to capital. They are myopic and/or willfully blind. They have little to no situational awareness and don't solve problems until it's too late. They are incapable, vision-less, disorganized and most importantly: resourceless - how are they going to just go and build a utopia? The top 10% will get elysium and the 90% will get nothing. > Im not sure that there's the stomach for active oppression throughout the whole of the ruling class. Not personally but oppression is automated, thats the entire point. The rich live in their gated community bubble, and automation and security takes care of things at the boarders. > Additionally, comms being what they are, cheap mesh networks can win through attrition so the masses can simply go off channel and avoid monitoring. From there the only way to find out what they're doing is through trust ie. Be (or pretend but then the entry bar gets raised) a good actor at which point the oppression stops Mesh networks can be DoS'd easily if they become a problem. I know, I built and sold my first startup doing this.
  - alexisread 7y ago
    Good points (and I'm glad I can make you laugh!) but i'll try to clarify: > The masses can go somewhere and build their own utopia?! This actually made me laugh out loud. On a macro scale this is what colonization is, specifically that trait of going off to find some land to make your fortune. Historically this has worked well, excluding the bit where indigenous populations were wiped out. Realistically here we're talking about getting the leftovers resource-wise. I'd be willing to bet that despite automation, not all the ruling class could rest on their conscience ie. the Elon Musks, Bill Gates etc. of this world would be dissenting, and in a position to act as visionaries (in fact they would likely be polarized by others' actions) to help build out alternative infrastructure. This solves the directionless+resourceless issues you've raised. Mesh networks can be DoS'd but that'd require active oppression to shut down the mesh, and if that happens, we get two possibilities, either you get help from aforementioned visionaries (wired network build-out) or you run a separate mesh, and keep doing so every time it's brought down. Cost is affordable with say esp32s and lipo (the attrition aspect I mentioned), bandwidth is a different matter but then we're talking about jamming rather than DoS.

api 7y ago

I am way off topic right now, but this is what chills me about some of the ideologies that I see people perpetuating online. Ultimately whether we get the future we are discussing or something much better will depend on ideas. Be very careful what ideas you invest time and energy in perpetuating. Think through the consequences first. What would happen if this were actually believed by many people and by powerful people? If the dominant idea is that the value of a human being is quantitatively measurable as their contribution to GDP or their IQ, we get a future like we are discussing. Racism is the same idea but with a much less sophisticated metric.

alexisread 7y ago

Thing is, you'd have to oppress in this situation. If you're just sat tight then the masses can go elsewhere and build their own utopia. Im not sure that there's the stomach for active oppression throughout the whole of the ruling class. Additionally, comms being what they are, cheap mesh networks can win through attrition so the masses can simply go off channel and avoid monitoring. From there the only way to find out what they're doing is through trust ie. Be (or pretend but then the entry bar gets raised) a good actor at which point the oppression stops.

malux85 7y ago
The masses can go somewhere and build their own utopia?! This actually made me laugh out loud. The masses are mostly average and below. They are the people living paycheck to paycheck, the working among them are on the verge of employment induced burnout, and almost all of them have no savings, and little / no access to capital. They are myopic and/or willfully blind. They have little to no situational awareness and don't solve problems until it's too late. They are incapable, vision-less, disorganized and most importantly: resourceless - how are they going to just go and build a utopia? The top 10% will get elysium and the 90% will get nothing. > Im not sure that there's the stomach for active oppression throughout the whole of the ruling class. Not personally but oppression is automated, thats the entire point. The rich live in their gated community bubble, and automation and security takes care of things at the boarders. > Additionally, comms being what they are, cheap mesh networks can win through attrition so the masses can simply go off channel and avoid monitoring. From there the only way to find out what they're doing is through trust ie. Be (or pretend but then the entry bar gets raised) a good actor at which point the oppression stops Mesh networks can be DoS'd easily if they become a problem. I know, I built and sold my first startup doing this.
- alexisread 7y ago
  Good points (and I'm glad I can make you laugh!) but i'll try to clarify: > The masses can go somewhere and build their own utopia?! This actually made me laugh out loud. On a macro scale this is what colonization is, specifically that trait of going off to find some land to make your fortune. Historically this has worked well, excluding the bit where indigenous populations were wiped out. Realistically here we're talking about getting the leftovers resource-wise. I'd be willing to bet that despite automation, not all the ruling class could rest on their conscience ie. the Elon Musks, Bill Gates etc. of this world would be dissenting, and in a position to act as visionaries (in fact they would likely be polarized by others' actions) to help build out alternative infrastructure. This solves the directionless+resourceless issues you've raised. Mesh networks can be DoS'd but that'd require active oppression to shut down the mesh, and if that happens, we get two possibilities, either you get help from aforementioned visionaries (wired network build-out) or you run a separate mesh, and keep doing so every time it's brought down. Cost is affordable with say esp32s and lipo (the attrition aspect I mentioned), bandwidth is a different matter but then we're talking about jamming rather than DoS.