4 ms·

I think a less extreme version of your scenario is a dark possibility in the future. After the explosion of neo-racism and fascism and similar ideologies in re

by api 7y ago

I think a less extreme version of your scenario is a dark possibility in the future. After the explosion of neo-racism and fascism and similar ideologies in recent years I found myself wondering what would happen if liberalism did in fact fall deeply out of fashion. We have panopticon mass surveillance, bioengineering, drones, and loads of other super-technologies that could allow genocide on an incredible scale with almost no realistic possibility of resistance. Some DIY guerilla group or gun nut militia would last minutes against a modern army that truly did not show restraint because their actual goal is extermination. Now throw migrant crises created by climate change in there. Look at how a relatively small migrant crisis in Europe helped resurrect fascism across all of the West and imagine a migrant wave 10X larger. I could definitely see some future gangster plutocracy deciding it's time to follow "race realism" and the cult of IQ to its logical conclusion.

malux85 7y ago
Global warming might do the genocide for them. Large parts of the planet become uninhabitable. C Comfortable conditions for living and food production are in synthetic environments only the rich can afford
- api 7y ago
  We seem to be failing to cooperate at scale to phase out carbon intensive energy sources and curtail the problem. The next test will be whether we will cooperate at scale to adapt to the change or descend into war and genocide. If a disastrous climate change scenario does unfold it could be true that large farming regions will be devastated, etc., but those people will not just sit and die. They will try to migrate. They may also engage in aggressive warfare themselves, "raiding" as we call it among our closest genetic relatives. Most deaths will be from war and genocide, not starvation. If this coincides with a true abandonment of liberal humanistic attitudes in advanced nations I could definitely see the top ~10% of humanity dispatching the other 90% in an organized fashion. Any members of the elite who voiced opposition would join the condemned. Smaller more isolated versions of that have happened before. Never before have humans had the power to scale it. BTW I think that's why people are so spooked by the Nazi holocaust vs what Stalin and Mao and many others did. The Nazi body count was not the highest, but the chilling thing is how they applied modern industrial and management practices to deliberate murder at scale. I suspect it's so chilling because of it hints at dark possible future scenarios. Imagine Hitler and the SS with China's surveillance state and CRISPR-CAS9.
  - malux85 7y ago
    Of course those synthetic environments will be defended. There are LiDAR sensors that scan 1-2 kilometers now, those are already being installed at the boarders of middle eastern countries. Connect those to some turrets that can fire, you have automated defence that works in the dark, rain, and fog. I've seen this technology first hand, heck I even helped build it. How are they going to raid if they cannot even get close to the defence walls? Advances in automated warfare will keep the rich safe and they wont have to get their hands dirty. They'll own the communication infrastructure so if things get bad first will be absolute surveillance then they can just pull the plug on communications if the outsiders get too rowdy. Self sustaining means you cant use scorched earth tactics. Internal power generation so no blackouts. Internal food production so no attrition warfare.
    - api 7y ago
      I am way off topic right now, but this is what chills me about some of the ideologies that I see people perpetuating online. Ultimately whether we get the future we are discussing or something much better will depend on ideas. Be very careful what ideas you invest time and energy in perpetuating. Think through the consequences first. What would happen if this were actually believed by many people and by powerful people? If the dominant idea is that the value of a human being is quantitatively measurable as their contribution to GDP or their IQ, we get a future like we are discussing. Racism is the same idea but with a much less sophisticated metric.
    - alexisread 7y ago
      Thing is, you'd have to oppress in this situation. If you're just sat tight then the masses can go elsewhere and build their own utopia. Im not sure that there's the stomach for active oppression throughout the whole of the ruling class. Additionally, comms being what they are, cheap mesh networks can win through attrition so the masses can simply go off channel and avoid monitoring. From there the only way to find out what they're doing is through trust ie. Be (or pretend but then the entry bar gets raised) a good actor at which point the oppression stops.
      - 7y ago
- eeZah7Ux 7y ago
  > Global warming might do the genocide for them 100 companies are responsible for 71% of global emissions. Climate change, soil depletion, water crisis, unaffordable food are not "just happening". The ongoing genocide is caused by wealth inequality.

by api 7y ago

malux85 7y ago

Global warming might do the genocide for them. Large parts of the planet become uninhabitable. C Comfortable conditions for living and food production are in synthetic environments only the rich can afford

api 7y ago
We seem to be failing to cooperate at scale to phase out carbon intensive energy sources and curtail the problem. The next test will be whether we will cooperate at scale to adapt to the change or descend into war and genocide. If a disastrous climate change scenario does unfold it could be true that large farming regions will be devastated, etc., but those people will not just sit and die. They will try to migrate. They may also engage in aggressive warfare themselves, "raiding" as we call it among our closest genetic relatives. Most deaths will be from war and genocide, not starvation. If this coincides with a true abandonment of liberal humanistic attitudes in advanced nations I could definitely see the top ~10% of humanity dispatching the other 90% in an organized fashion. Any members of the elite who voiced opposition would join the condemned. Smaller more isolated versions of that have happened before. Never before have humans had the power to scale it. BTW I think that's why people are so spooked by the Nazi holocaust vs what Stalin and Mao and many others did. The Nazi body count was not the highest, but the chilling thing is how they applied modern industrial and management practices to deliberate murder at scale. I suspect it's so chilling because of it hints at dark possible future scenarios. Imagine Hitler and the SS with China's surveillance state and CRISPR-CAS9.
- malux85 7y ago
  Of course those synthetic environments will be defended. There are LiDAR sensors that scan 1-2 kilometers now, those are already being installed at the boarders of middle eastern countries. Connect those to some turrets that can fire, you have automated defence that works in the dark, rain, and fog. I've seen this technology first hand, heck I even helped build it. How are they going to raid if they cannot even get close to the defence walls? Advances in automated warfare will keep the rich safe and they wont have to get their hands dirty. They'll own the communication infrastructure so if things get bad first will be absolute surveillance then they can just pull the plug on communications if the outsiders get too rowdy. Self sustaining means you cant use scorched earth tactics. Internal power generation so no blackouts. Internal food production so no attrition warfare.
  - api 7y ago
    I am way off topic right now, but this is what chills me about some of the ideologies that I see people perpetuating online. Ultimately whether we get the future we are discussing or something much better will depend on ideas. Be very careful what ideas you invest time and energy in perpetuating. Think through the consequences first. What would happen if this were actually believed by many people and by powerful people? If the dominant idea is that the value of a human being is quantitatively measurable as their contribution to GDP or their IQ, we get a future like we are discussing. Racism is the same idea but with a much less sophisticated metric.
  - alexisread 7y ago
    Thing is, you'd have to oppress in this situation. If you're just sat tight then the masses can go elsewhere and build their own utopia. Im not sure that there's the stomach for active oppression throughout the whole of the ruling class. Additionally, comms being what they are, cheap mesh networks can win through attrition so the masses can simply go off channel and avoid monitoring. From there the only way to find out what they're doing is through trust ie. Be (or pretend but then the entry bar gets raised) a good actor at which point the oppression stops.
    - 7y ago
eeZah7Ux 7y ago
> Global warming might do the genocide for them 100 companies are responsible for 71% of global emissions. Climate change, soil depletion, water crisis, unaffordable food are not "just happening". The ongoing genocide is caused by wealth inequality.