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> Steven Pinker, Marvin Minsky It just sounds like you haven't been paying attention at all. Are you aware that a woman has claimed that she was forced to have

> Steven Pinker, Marvin Minsky It just sounds like you haven't been paying attention at all. Are you aware that a woman has claimed that she was forced to have sex with Marvin Minsky by Epstein on his island? https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jeffrey-epstein-sex-trafficking-island-court-records-unsealed https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jef... Are you aware that Pinker has flown on the "Lolita Express" and helped with Epstein's legal defense, a legal defense that led to him avoiding a prison term in a manner that seems aptly describable as "corrupt"? https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/07/17/steven-pinkers-aid-jeffrey-epsteins-legal-defense-renews-criticism-increasingly https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/07/17/steven-pinker... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/12/alex-acosta-resigns-trump-jeffrey-epstein-plea-deal-latest-news https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/12/alex-acosta-... If you were not aware of these things, please engage in some honest introspection regarding how you ended up decrying attempts to reach justice for them as overreactions on the Internet.

nullc 7y ago
> Are you aware that a woman has claimed that she was forced to have sex with Marvin Minsky by Epstein on his island? Yet the her deposition does not actually make that claim, but rather that she was directed to approach Minsky for sex. A third party witness reports that that he turned her down and was apparently complaining about the incident. https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/339725/ https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/339725/ If you were not aware of these things, please engage in some honest introspection regarding how you ended up decrying attempts to constrain overreaction-- and potentially defaming an innocent person who isn't around to defend themself-- and allow a calm deliberative process to search for actual justice.
- somebadguy 7y ago
  You sad pathetic incel
- dclowd9901 7y ago
  I’m not worried about the privileged. They have every benefit and fortune at their backs. You should use the limited resources of your worry toward those more deserving and needful.
  - sergioj97 7y ago
    If privileged people go down like this even without enough proof or contradictory claims (I don't think this is the case, but the user you are replying to seems to believe that), then you certainly should worry about it. It may well happen to anyone else, privileged or not. It's not only a problem for the privileged.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- paganel 7y ago
  I’m 38 and afaik nobody has ever sent me underage women for me to have sex with them, that way I could have boasted to an external third party that “I refused”. When you’re 88 years old (so when biologically sex is one of the last things you should be thinking about) and when one of your close friends “sends” you an under-age woman that only means that that close friend of yours knew what you liked and what you were into. And make no mistake, Epstein was a friend of Minsky. And I don’t buy this “it could happen to you, too”, because, again, afaik not me not anyone of my close friends has been sent “underage girls” as “gifts” (for one reason because we don’t befriend paedophile pseudo-billionaires).
  - leereeves 7y ago
    > ... that only means that that close friend of yours knew what you liked and what you were into That's the only possible explanation? Perhaps Epstein wanted to ensnare Minsky in a situation that could be used to coerce him. That's consistent with Minsky turning her down, unlike your version.
    - paganel 7y ago
      What’s there left to coerce in an 88 year old who had been pretty happy to take photo shoots with Epstein before and whom the same Epstein had in his pocket based on the potential financial donations alone? All I’m saying is that Minsky’s influence was at that point behind him.
      - solveit 7y ago
        Uh... neither of those things is exactly raping a child? There would be plenty to coerce.
        paganel 7y ago
        I’m saying that when a close friend of yours sends you a child to be raped then I assume that that close friend of yours knew that you liked raping children, orherwise he would have sent you something else or nothing at all.
- bbanyc 7y ago
  Why should we believe Benford? How do we know there weren't other incidents? Given Minsky's well-established long-running ties to Epstein, I don't think we can afford not to believe the allegations against him. I find it especially painful because I was once a student in one of his courses, it was a great experience and I didn't suspect a thing about him - but you never know. Never meet your heroes. Never have heroes.
  - nullc 7y ago
    > Why should we believe Benford? You could start with because the claim Minsky went along with it was never offered by the accuser in the first place! There is something to debate about how far you should believe accusations without investigation or evidence ... but this isn't that, this is jumping to hysterical ends without even an accusation being made, assuming the worst about someone whom-- as far as I know-- no one had even the slightest concern about, even in the face of contradicting evidence. It's an area that deserves more investigation and inquiry, but as far as I can tell-- that's it. I don't know how to see that as anything but a straight up witchhunt where no one targeted could ever be found innocent. My above comment is now, I think, my highest upvoted HN comment ever, even though it is a striking contrast to most of the posts in this thread. I suspect a lot of people are afraid of challenging the witchhunt.
    - bbanyc 7y ago
      Even if everything Benford said is true and there were no other incidents, Minsky still knew that Epstein was pimping young girls out at his conferences and kept taking Epstein's money and attending the conferences for years afterward. That's awfully damning.
    - morelisp 7y ago
      > I don't know how to see that as anything but a straight up witchhunt where no one targeted could ever be found innocent. Perhaps literally no one partying with the (confessed, convicted) pedophile and his suddenly definitely-consenting-and-of-legal-age entourage was innocent.
- DoctorOetker 7y ago
  >- and potentially defaming an innocent person who isn't around to defend themself- You mean "who is according to his own plans temporarily not around to defend himself" Marving Minsky is probably "chillin" in Alcor, waiting for his mega-upload. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Death These people will not be the first biological organisms to be reanimated: that would entail too much risk as a guiny pig. More probable is that before trying to reanimate any of these Alcor members, the technology of uploading will need to be tested (at least on animals first) to verify the upload conserves the episodic memories of the biological original. This means time will pass in the interim, and regulations will have time to adapt to such new realities. An obvious conundrum is the concept of time in law. If you can pause a person's life and then continue it, what about crimes commited before the pause? How does the statute of limitations then apply? It is entirely foreseeable that legislative bodies will decide it is the subjective experience of time that counts: punishments are of a reformative nature, and a person who did not evolve between his crimes and his apprehension has not reformed. So yes, in such a future it will be a frequent occurence to accuse the dead, and there should be no shame in that. So even if a victim of a reanimated person is by then older than a perpetrator of some crime, or if the victim is already dead, it is still in the interest of society to punish and reform the criminal. People who laugh at the plebs and don't worry about crimes they commit in their quest for immortality (thinking that the ends justify the means, thinking they will have the literally last laugh) may be sourly surprised when they wake up to discover things don't work like that.
qazpot 7y ago
> Epstein's legal defense, a legal defense that led to him avoiding a prison term in a manner that seems aptly describable as "corrupt"? Helping someone prepare a legal defense is not a crime.
csallen 7y ago
> Are you aware that Pinker has flown on the "Lolita Express" (1) This happened in 2002, (2) Pinker didn't know Epstein personally at the time and the ticket was booked by his literary agent, (3) the flight was to a science-related event in California and included other scientists who were also booked by the same literary agent. Simply saying, "Pinker has flown on the Lolita Express" and leaving it at that is an intentionally misleading attempt to create a false image of what happened in the reader's mind. > Pinker… helped with Epstein's legal defense Alan Dershowitz, a professor at Harvard alongside Pinker, represented Epstein in that case. Pinker is a linguist. At some point Alan asked Pinker for his opinion about the semantics of a law, Pinker gave it, and that opinion was cited in a court document. Again, it's intentionally misleading to simply say that Pinker helped with Epstein's legal defense that led to him avoiding a prison term. This is one of the worst things about the Internet -- people happily joining in on witch hunts intended to destroy other people based on no more information than a misleading soundbite, headline, or tweet. You're proving the OP's point about overreactions.
- morelisp 7y ago
  > the flight was to a science-related event in California and included other scientists who were also booked by the same literary agent. That literary agent being John Brockman, who seems to be in as deep as anyone - he pitched "science-related events" to his writers by saying Epstein would be bringing girls! https://newrepublic.com/article/154826/jeffrey-epsteins-intellectual-enabler https://newrepublic.com/article/154826/jeffrey-epsteins-inte...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- cwkoss 7y ago
  Alan Dershowitz tends to deny the accusations with unnatural lawyerly wording and odd personal attacks - this has led me to adjust my priors so now I suspect there is a >50% chance that Dershowitz is a pedophile rapist. Pinker being close to Dershowitz is a red flag to me.
  - 7y ago

nullc 7y ago

> Are you aware that a woman has claimed that she was forced to have sex with Marvin Minsky by Epstein on his island? Yet the her deposition does not actually make that claim, but rather that she was directed to approach Minsky for sex. A third party witness reports that that he turned her down and was apparently complaining about the incident. https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/339725/ https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/339725/ If you were not aware of these things, please engage in some honest introspection regarding how you ended up decrying attempts to constrain overreaction-- and potentially defaming an innocent person who isn't around to defend themself-- and allow a calm deliberative process to search for actual justice.

somebadguy 7y ago
You sad pathetic incel
dclowd9901 7y ago
I’m not worried about the privileged. They have every benefit and fortune at their backs. You should use the limited resources of your worry toward those more deserving and needful.
- sergioj97 7y ago
  If privileged people go down like this even without enough proof or contradictory claims (I don't think this is the case, but the user you are replying to seems to believe that), then you certainly should worry about it. It may well happen to anyone else, privileged or not. It's not only a problem for the privileged.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
paganel 7y ago
I’m 38 and afaik nobody has ever sent me underage women for me to have sex with them, that way I could have boasted to an external third party that “I refused”. When you’re 88 years old (so when biologically sex is one of the last things you should be thinking about) and when one of your close friends “sends” you an under-age woman that only means that that close friend of yours knew what you liked and what you were into. And make no mistake, Epstein was a friend of Minsky. And I don’t buy this “it could happen to you, too”, because, again, afaik not me not anyone of my close friends has been sent “underage girls” as “gifts” (for one reason because we don’t befriend paedophile pseudo-billionaires).
- leereeves 7y ago
  > ... that only means that that close friend of yours knew what you liked and what you were into That's the only possible explanation? Perhaps Epstein wanted to ensnare Minsky in a situation that could be used to coerce him. That's consistent with Minsky turning her down, unlike your version.
  - paganel 7y ago
    What’s there left to coerce in an 88 year old who had been pretty happy to take photo shoots with Epstein before and whom the same Epstein had in his pocket based on the potential financial donations alone? All I’m saying is that Minsky’s influence was at that point behind him.
    - solveit 7y ago
      Uh... neither of those things is exactly raping a child? There would be plenty to coerce.
      - paganel 7y ago
        I’m saying that when a close friend of yours sends you a child to be raped then I assume that that close friend of yours knew that you liked raping children, orherwise he would have sent you something else or nothing at all.
bbanyc 7y ago
Why should we believe Benford? How do we know there weren't other incidents? Given Minsky's well-established long-running ties to Epstein, I don't think we can afford not to believe the allegations against him. I find it especially painful because I was once a student in one of his courses, it was a great experience and I didn't suspect a thing about him - but you never know. Never meet your heroes. Never have heroes.
- nullc 7y ago
  > Why should we believe Benford? You could start with because the claim Minsky went along with it was never offered by the accuser in the first place! There is something to debate about how far you should believe accusations without investigation or evidence ... but this isn't that, this is jumping to hysterical ends without even an accusation being made, assuming the worst about someone whom-- as far as I know-- no one had even the slightest concern about, even in the face of contradicting evidence. It's an area that deserves more investigation and inquiry, but as far as I can tell-- that's it. I don't know how to see that as anything but a straight up witchhunt where no one targeted could ever be found innocent. My above comment is now, I think, my highest upvoted HN comment ever, even though it is a striking contrast to most of the posts in this thread. I suspect a lot of people are afraid of challenging the witchhunt.
  - bbanyc 7y ago
    Even if everything Benford said is true and there were no other incidents, Minsky still knew that Epstein was pimping young girls out at his conferences and kept taking Epstein's money and attending the conferences for years afterward. That's awfully damning.
  - morelisp 7y ago
    > I don't know how to see that as anything but a straight up witchhunt where no one targeted could ever be found innocent. Perhaps literally no one partying with the (confessed, convicted) pedophile and his suddenly definitely-consenting-and-of-legal-age entourage was innocent.
DoctorOetker 7y ago
>- and potentially defaming an innocent person who isn't around to defend themself- You mean "who is according to his own plans temporarily not around to defend himself" Marving Minsky is probably "chillin" in Alcor, waiting for his mega-upload. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Death These people will not be the first biological organisms to be reanimated: that would entail too much risk as a guiny pig. More probable is that before trying to reanimate any of these Alcor members, the technology of uploading will need to be tested (at least on animals first) to verify the upload conserves the episodic memories of the biological original. This means time will pass in the interim, and regulations will have time to adapt to such new realities. An obvious conundrum is the concept of time in law. If you can pause a person's life and then continue it, what about crimes commited before the pause? How does the statute of limitations then apply? It is entirely foreseeable that legislative bodies will decide it is the subjective experience of time that counts: punishments are of a reformative nature, and a person who did not evolve between his crimes and his apprehension has not reformed. So yes, in such a future it will be a frequent occurence to accuse the dead, and there should be no shame in that. So even if a victim of a reanimated person is by then older than a perpetrator of some crime, or if the victim is already dead, it is still in the interest of society to punish and reform the criminal. People who laugh at the plebs and don't worry about crimes they commit in their quest for immortality (thinking that the ends justify the means, thinking they will have the literally last laugh) may be sourly surprised when they wake up to discover things don't work like that.

qazpot 7y ago

> Epstein's legal defense, a legal defense that led to him avoiding a prison term in a manner that seems aptly describable as "corrupt"? Helping someone prepare a legal defense is not a crime.

csallen 7y ago

> Are you aware that Pinker has flown on the "Lolita Express" (1) This happened in 2002, (2) Pinker didn't know Epstein personally at the time and the ticket was booked by his literary agent, (3) the flight was to a science-related event in California and included other scientists who were also booked by the same literary agent. Simply saying, "Pinker has flown on the Lolita Express" and leaving it at that is an intentionally misleading attempt to create a false image of what happened in the reader's mind. > Pinker… helped with Epstein's legal defense Alan Dershowitz, a professor at Harvard alongside Pinker, represented Epstein in that case. Pinker is a linguist. At some point Alan asked Pinker for his opinion about the semantics of a law, Pinker gave it, and that opinion was cited in a court document. Again, it's intentionally misleading to simply say that Pinker helped with Epstein's legal defense that led to him avoiding a prison term. This is one of the worst things about the Internet -- people happily joining in on witch hunts intended to destroy other people based on no more information than a misleading soundbite, headline, or tweet. You're proving the OP's point about overreactions.

morelisp 7y ago
> the flight was to a science-related event in California and included other scientists who were also booked by the same literary agent. That literary agent being John Brockman, who seems to be in as deep as anyone - he pitched "science-related events" to his writers by saying Epstein would be bringing girls! https://newrepublic.com/article/154826/jeffrey-epsteins-intellectual-enabler https://newrepublic.com/article/154826/jeffrey-epsteins-inte...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cwkoss 7y ago
Alan Dershowitz tends to deny the accusations with unnatural lawyerly wording and odd personal attacks - this has led me to adjust my priors so now I suspect there is a >50% chance that Dershowitz is a pedophile rapist. Pinker being close to Dershowitz is a red flag to me.
- 7y ago