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Of course they are, those shark foundations and companies are really pushing micro-loans as both life changing and charity, when it’s been a long time since we’

Of course they are, those shark foundations and companies are really pushing micro-loans as both life changing and charity, when it’s been a long time since we’ve known it has really bad effects and is the new cool way to prey on the poor. They would helicopter money at people if they really wanted to help them.

dymk 7y ago
> shark foundations Characterizing the Gates foundation as sharks? Interesting. > when it’s been a long time since we’ve known it has really bad effects and is the new cool way to prey on the poor. What? source for that claim please. It's far from an obvious or widespread idea that making access to small amounts of capital easier leads to more problems for poor people.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Characterizing the Gates foundation as sharks? Interesting. Don't know for the parent, but as a European, where we have seen all kinds of things in the political and economic sphere, we tend to be less gullible and more cynical. Many charitable funds are basically ways to take huge tax breaks and still have control of your money. Others are based on you giving an insignificant amount of your fortune (which can still be huge percentage wise, but it's insignificant in its consequences to you: if you have 100 billions, even giving away 99 of them leaves you with enough money to sustain a lavish lifestyle for several generations) and trade it for a say in global politics and power. In other words, you use your funds to 'play god' and help manage the world the way you like it... >What? source for that claim please. It's far from an obvious or widespread idea that making access to small amounts of capital easier leads to more problems for poor people. https://www.businessinsider.com/hundreds-of-suicides-in-india-linked-to-microfinance-organizations-2012-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/hundreds-of-suicides-in-indi...
joe_the_user 7y ago
The parent more or less correct, if speaking a bit loosely. Microfinance has been a disaster pushed by indeed horrible loan sharks, though the Gates Foundation isn't by itself such a thing. "Hundreds Of Suicides In India Linked To Microfinance Organizations": https://www.businessinsider.com/hundreds-of-suicides-in-india-linked-to-microfinance-organizations-2012-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/hundreds-of-suicides-in-indi... Counter point from the Guardian on the whole Gates approach (also linked on another thread here): "Bill Gates says poverty is decreasing. He couldn’t be more wrong" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/29/bill-gates-davos-global-poverty-infographic-neoliberal https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/29/bill-g...
- tim333 7y ago
  The Guardian article is iffy, discussed here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19026201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19026201
  - joe_the_user 7y ago
    I disagree. In your linked comment, ColdTea's comment is insightful. Edit: I linked to this article because it makes an informed critique of Gates but the ultimate point is that all that is being measured by removing "extreme poverty" is a movement from subsistence (living outside the money economy) to existence within it. This isn't accomplished by charity and trends for those within the money economy have not been towards increasing wages. A move out of subsistence could be good, bad or indifferent, depending on particular conditions and who interprets the situation. But the big thing is it's particular (and pretty much inevitable) change, not a general "trend to the good" and ultimately the question is where those in the money economy get good and rising wages, something Gates seems to pay zero attention to.

dymk 7y ago

> shark foundations Characterizing the Gates foundation as sharks? Interesting. > when it’s been a long time since we’ve known it has really bad effects and is the new cool way to prey on the poor. What? source for that claim please. It's far from an obvious or widespread idea that making access to small amounts of capital easier leads to more problems for poor people.

coldtea 7y ago
>Characterizing the Gates foundation as sharks? Interesting. Don't know for the parent, but as a European, where we have seen all kinds of things in the political and economic sphere, we tend to be less gullible and more cynical. Many charitable funds are basically ways to take huge tax breaks and still have control of your money. Others are based on you giving an insignificant amount of your fortune (which can still be huge percentage wise, but it's insignificant in its consequences to you: if you have 100 billions, even giving away 99 of them leaves you with enough money to sustain a lavish lifestyle for several generations) and trade it for a say in global politics and power. In other words, you use your funds to 'play god' and help manage the world the way you like it... >What? source for that claim please. It's far from an obvious or widespread idea that making access to small amounts of capital easier leads to more problems for poor people. https://www.businessinsider.com/hundreds-of-suicides-in-india-linked-to-microfinance-organizations-2012-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/hundreds-of-suicides-in-indi...

joe_the_user 7y ago

The parent more or less correct, if speaking a bit loosely. Microfinance has been a disaster pushed by indeed horrible loan sharks, though the Gates Foundation isn't by itself such a thing. "Hundreds Of Suicides In India Linked To Microfinance Organizations": https://www.businessinsider.com/hundreds-of-suicides-in-india-linked-to-microfinance-organizations-2012-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/hundreds-of-suicides-in-indi... Counter point from the Guardian on the whole Gates approach (also linked on another thread here): "Bill Gates says poverty is decreasing. He couldn’t be more wrong" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/29/bill-gates-davos-global-poverty-infographic-neoliberal https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/29/bill-g...

tim333 7y ago
The Guardian article is iffy, discussed here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19026201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19026201
- joe_the_user 7y ago
  I disagree. In your linked comment, ColdTea's comment is insightful. Edit: I linked to this article because it makes an informed critique of Gates but the ultimate point is that all that is being measured by removing "extreme poverty" is a movement from subsistence (living outside the money economy) to existence within it. This isn't accomplished by charity and trends for those within the money economy have not been towards increasing wages. A move out of subsistence could be good, bad or indifferent, depending on particular conditions and who interprets the situation. But the big thing is it's particular (and pretty much inevitable) change, not a general "trend to the good" and ultimately the question is where those in the money economy get good and rising wages, something Gates seems to pay zero attention to.