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How bad it was depends on what you value. Did splitting up societies across Europe lead to more differentiation? Yes, absolutely. Here's some other things it

How bad it was depends on what you value. Did splitting up societies across Europe lead to more differentiation? Yes, absolutely. Here's some other things it led to: -Population totals and density dropped. -Life expectancy dropped. -Trade fell in volume, trade routes shortened, and the variety of available goods dropped. -The trend of urbanization reversed and Europeans became more rural. -The likelihood of dying to disease/plague increased. -The number and length of usable roads shrank -The plow fell out of common manufacture and farmers began relying on picks, hoes, and shovels instead It's up to you whether those things count as "not that bad".

nickik 7y ago
Many of these things weren't really effected by the Fall of the Roman empirical structure per se. Most of the things you mention didn't actually happen for a long while after the empire fell. The first big plague happened in 541–542 AD and it effected people in the Eastern Empire more then in the former Western empire. Italian urbanization was not actually significantly changed until the Justinian roman wars where Italy was invaded by different armies over and over again. But important to know is that Italy was already less urban by the time the empire fell, Rome had already far, far fewer people then at its peak and had gone down over the last 100 years before the actual Fall. The point here is that many of the variables you describe had lots of variation within the imperial period and often didn't significantly change when the empire fell per see. So we need to be really careful as these things are pretty complex and our data is incredibly bad. Often informed not by good data.
Spooky23 7y ago
All of those things are true, but it’s easy to overcredit late Rome for their advantages. Remember a lot of the history, perceptions and analysis we get really grows out of 19th century work, where glorification of empire was something of a vested interest of gentlemen of the day. The western Roman Empire had stagnated for years and lost a lot of ground.
- joe_the_user 7y ago
  This just and similar rebuttals just make the point that the lost ground happened in a gradual fashion. When the parts of the structure fell, much had already rotted away, sure. That doesn't change the basic outline that the situation involved a decline in "civilization" and general quality of life. IE, it was a rather bad time, in contrast to the OP.

nickik 7y ago

Many of these things weren't really effected by the Fall of the Roman empirical structure per se. Most of the things you mention didn't actually happen for a long while after the empire fell. The first big plague happened in 541–542 AD and it effected people in the Eastern Empire more then in the former Western empire. Italian urbanization was not actually significantly changed until the Justinian roman wars where Italy was invaded by different armies over and over again. But important to know is that Italy was already less urban by the time the empire fell, Rome had already far, far fewer people then at its peak and had gone down over the last 100 years before the actual Fall. The point here is that many of the variables you describe had lots of variation within the imperial period and often didn't significantly change when the empire fell per see. So we need to be really careful as these things are pretty complex and our data is incredibly bad. Often informed not by good data.

Spooky23 7y ago

All of those things are true, but it’s easy to overcredit late Rome for their advantages. Remember a lot of the history, perceptions and analysis we get really grows out of 19th century work, where glorification of empire was something of a vested interest of gentlemen of the day. The western Roman Empire had stagnated for years and lost a lot of ground.

joe_the_user 7y ago
This just and similar rebuttals just make the point that the lost ground happened in a gradual fashion. When the parts of the structure fell, much had already rotted away, sure. That doesn't change the basic outline that the situation involved a decline in "civilization" and general quality of life. IE, it was a rather bad time, in contrast to the OP.