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Cases of Vaping-Related Lung Illness Surge, Health Officials Say

88 points by neom 7y ago

AndrewBissell 7y ago
The Washington Post reported earlier today that this may be caused by marijuana vaping products which use Vitamin E to achieve a higher THC concentration: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20898456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20898456
scohesc 7y ago
I mean it's not surprising, considering that the only thing you should be breathing in is air, not anything else. (not that I personally follow that rule though :\) I wonder if it's an ingredient that's used to make it taste better - since the article posted an item of the "fun" flavored vape liquid. I don't think we should outright ban these devices like the one doctor mentioned in the article. Find out what specifically is causing the problem with lung deterioration and ban that ingredient from the mixture (Probably vitamin E acetate according to the article). Seems fairly simple.
- shaneofalltrad 7y ago
  I think Air has lost it's quality too, so breathing it is in need of some cannabis to offset the carcinogenic particles- just don't smoke E acetate or any other substance with it, keep the grow clean of chemicals and you will have healthy lungs IMHO. You do see studies of cannabis smokers having healthier lungs than non-smokers and nicotine smokers.
  - skyyler 7y ago
    You need to update your information. Cannabis smoke, like any smoke generated from combustion of plant matter, contains a number of carcinogenic compounds. Smoking cannabis does not cure cancer. Quite the opposite. Your position that breathing air is unhealthy without cannabis is quite interesting. I'd love to see some of the studies you're talking about. I have never seen a study concluding that smoke inhalation is a good thing.
dr_dshiv 7y ago
This all seems like such terrible journalism. Vaping can refer to: 1. Juul and similar e-cigarette nicotine products 2. Iqos or Pax tobacco or marijuana non-combustion products 3. Legal Cannabis oil branded products 4. Illegal cannabis oil products. All issues have come from illegal products. No brands are mentioned. Clearly, contamination is the issue. It is irresponsible to blame "vaping" especially considering that the alternative is "smoking" -- which won't ever result in a newspaper article about sickness/death because it is so common. About 10 people a day die in swimming pools. But 4 total deaths ever is an epidemic?
- rrix2 7y ago
  This is as much the CDC's fault, it seems like, digging in to the underlying sources.
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    This is the FDA's wheelhouse. CDC handles epidemiology.
    - nvrspyx 7y ago
      epidemiology > the branch of medicine which deals with the incidence, distribution, and possible control of diseases and other factors relating to health. disease > a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury. Is this not a disease? One of which the actual cause is still unknown and symptoms hitherto unseen? I guess it could still ultimately be the result of physical injury to the lungs, but it still seems up in the air. You may still be right, but I don't think it's as simple as "CDC handles epidemiology".
      - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
        They don't regulate the use or sale of controlled substances.
dpeck 7y ago
It feels like this is going to end up being very similar to the melamine milk situation in China in 2008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal
cj 7y ago
There was a similar story on HN a few days ago. I found this thread to be a really interesting take on the possible cause: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20855683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20855683 TLDR: Vaporizer cartridges contain fillers. The fillers are apparently very expensive. The theory is people in the industry are trying to boost profits by using cheaper (never tested on humans) fillers that are potentially damaging to health. Whether or not this is true, I don't know, but it makes for an interesting theory.
rmetzler 7y ago
The main problem I see with vaping Cannabis extract is, there isn’t much that a consumer can do to verify the quality of the product. The cannabis could be contaminated with mold or neem oil from the grow up or it could be leftovers from the extraction method, because it wasn’t purged right. Neem oil is something that was cleared for fruits and vegetables, something that you wash and eat. But I think it would be poisonous when you inhale it.
- balaksakrionon 7y ago
  yes definitely a big issue; testing requirements must be improved, and there should be random samples of product batches taken for testing so companies cannot game the tests
- scruple 7y ago
  Not to mention who knows what pesticides and solvents. There's an Instagram user who has posted lab results from (legit, branded, supposedly reputable) cartridges that he's personally submitted. The results were enough to scare me away from the entire idea.
teilo 7y ago
I'm more concerned about the future backlash than the present reporting. I mean, remember the salmonella tomato scare in 2008? Restaurants around the country stopped putting tomatoes on their food, and grocery stores pulled all tomatoes from the shelves, until the issue was isolated and resolved. So while I do think it's quite the overreaction to tell everyone to stop using any and all vaping products, particularly people who are continuing to vape juices that have been used for years without issue, it's an understandable overreaction. In the end, they are going to find the issue, and it won't have anything to do with traditional e-cig alternatives to tobacco. But I suspect there will be legislative backlash that will be vastly disproportionate to the issue. They will punish innocent retailers, make e-cigs outrageously expensive by over-regulation, and discourage a large number of people from a product that really is substantially safer than the tobacco they are leaving behind.
- dmix 7y ago
  I just got a "breaking news" notification saying the CDC is recommending not vaping at all. This is definitely going to have some effect.
  - gwbas1c 7y ago
    Do they provide context? You shouldn't vape and you shouldn't smoke, but plenty of people do unhealthy things for reasons that are difficult to explain and/or understand. So, is this a "finger wagging" recommendation, or is there a tangible reason to avoid vaping?
- saghm 7y ago
  > I mean, remember the salmonella tomato scare in 2008? Restaurants around the country stopped putting tomatoes on their food, and grocery stores pulled all tomatoes from the shelves, until the issue was isolated and resolved. If this follows a parallel path though, wouldn't this mean that vaping levels will basically be back to normal shortly after the cause is discovered? A temporary cessation of vaping until we can find and eliminate the cause of these health problems doesn't strike me as a huge issue.
drngdds 7y ago
It's pretty misleading that all the headlines are just calling this "vaping-related" when the actual cause is probably bad THC oil. How many people are going to stop vaping nicotine and go back to cigarettes after hearing about this? The number probably isn't zero, and those people are going to be at a greater risk for a litany of awful illnesses.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Havoc 7y ago
  >It's pretty misleading that all the headlines are just calling this "vaping-related" when the actual cause is probably bad THC oil. That's pure speculation on your part. All of them are vaping related, but not all necessary THC related: >Many patients report using e-cigarette products with liquids that contain cannabinoid products The might be under-reporting due to THC legality fear. Or it may not be. Who knows? >at a greater risk for a litany of awful illnesses. Long term maybe. But whatever this is it seems to kill pretty fast.
arzt 7y ago
It would seem appropriate to caveat the fact in the headline that the vast majority of these cases were vaping with THC related products (although a majority had used a nicotine related product as well, exclusively nicotine related cases are much fewer).
DubiousPusher 7y ago
The media needs to slow their roll here. This totally has the vibe of the "Cuban sonic weapon attacks" or the "cops contact ODing on fentanyl" thing.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- draw_down 7y ago
  Maybe, but the anticipation of something like this, a concrete reason to bash vaping, has been palpable for a while now. For a long time all they had was "it looks like smoking and smoking is unhealthy" or "nicotine is bad" or "tobacco companies are evil". Now it's "vaping will destroy your lungs and kill you". So I'd say this reaction is entirely predictable.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dr_dshiv 7y ago
A majority of Americans believe that vaping is more dangerous than smoking. This kind of jounalism is literally killing people. https://reason.com/2019/04/10/the-percentage-of-americans-who-understa/ https://reason.com/2019/04/10/the-percentage-of-americans-wh...
- derision 7y ago
  > This kind of jounalism What kind? Accurate? Is it not true that these cases are increasing and deaths have happened in close succession? A lot of these vape cartridges are being made with untested adulterants or solvents that we have no idea about, especially black market cartridges and counterfeits from other countries. Until there's more testing and regulation around what is actually in these things, they are in fact more dangerous than smoking in my opinion. Smoking causes all kinds of issues over the long term, but these vape cartridges are causing serious acute illnesses. Maybe more dangerous is the wrong word. Vaping, at this point, is way more _risky_ than smoking, given the acute possibilities.
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    To add to your comment, I’ve never flat out condemned vaping but I’ve always been skeptical. I was a smoker for almost ten years before I quit. After I quit my doctor ran some basic tests and blood work, etc. He told me that within 4-5 years my lungs would be as if I’d never smoked and that would also improve with regular exercise. That was about 4 years ago and I don’t feel the former construction in my lungs as I did back then. (Though I think I might have been a better singer, but there’s something to be said for warming up...) Anyway even after ten years of smoking and finally quitting my risk of any disease is extremely low—but only because I quit completely. The surge in popularity of vaping surely would draw in some less scrupulous device and cartridge manufacturers. Edit: Thought I should add a point of clarity here that I wouldn’t recommend cigarette smoking instead! Better off just to take a week away from work and hold up in bed if you’ve had a hard time kicking it. It’s those first couple of days that are the very worst.
  - EpicEng 7y ago
    >What kind? Accurate? no, the type that omits relevant information in order to scare people. nearly every article I've seen talking about the dangers of vaping has failed to mention flaws in the studies that they cite, and there's never a follow-up. numerous articles were written citing a study that burned liquid at incredibly high temperatures. A person would never use a vape that way. In this case, we know that these people were vaping, but we have no cause. Another article came out today that found high amounts of vitamin e in THC oils these people were vaping[1]. I couldn't find a mention of that in the article. There are an estimated 10 million people who vape in this country. We have a tiny, tiny fraction who have demonstrable health issues related to it. in those cases it has almost always been a manufacturing issue, not an issue with vaping in general. I'm not trying to say it's perfectly safe, obviously that is unlikely to be the case, but cigarettes are absolutely going to kill you. [1]: https://beta.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/09/05/contaminant-found-vaping-products-linked-deadly-lung-illnesses-state-federal-labs-show/?outputType=amp https://beta.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/09/05/contaminan...
post_break 7y ago
Michigan banned flavors is going to cause a surge of this when people start to DIY it.
fourstar 7y ago
https://leafist.com/news/health/are-cannabis-vape-pens-safe https://leafist.com/news/health/are-cannabis-vape-pens-safe for a brief overview of the extraction process —- but as another commenter mentioned, the issue is there’s no verification. If you want to make real use of a blockchain, it’d be to tag all these cartridges with a QR code that is tied to specific farm, and there would be a third party that the county would require to test the contents. Then when I purchase I can view it on some public chain. This already happens for large scale growers at (reputatable) dispensaries who sell flower. Most larger companies (Marly Naturals, Jetty Extracts, to name a couple) in the cannabis space typically have good quality. As far as the nicotine vapes, it’s less regulated so you’re more likely to get some bad “juice” from a place with low/no standards.
hacknat 7y ago
I still am convinced that this is people vaping way too much at one time. Cannabinoids are “sticky” oils, i.e. pretty good binding agents. It’s plausible that a carcinogen (in an e cigarette) is binding to them that would otherwise be metabolized and creating a negative side effect. I do think vaping is probably better than smoking, but it is probably ideal not to be addicted to nicotine. It is much more dangerous to your long term health than either THC or alcohol (assuming you’re not an alcoholic). Best to lay off vaping weed and nicotine at the same time for now. That seems to be the common thread in these cases. As someone who only vapes weed, I have to say I’m not too worried. Edit: Corrected brain fart of saying “weed and marijuana” instead of “weed and nicotine”.
- balaksakrionon 7y ago
  What do you mean by: vaping weed and marijuana at the same time ? Or do you mean weed + nicotine?
  - hacknat 7y ago
    Yep, thanks.
dr_dshiv 7y ago
The british NHS claims that vaping is at least 95% more safe than smoking. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/vaping-quit-smoking-cigarettes-health-nhs-lung-damage-cancer-tobacco-a8701506.html%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/heal...
theshadowknows 7y ago
“Surged” from zero to five.
DubiousPusher 7y ago
It blows my mind how HN which can discuss many issues in a nuanced and skeptical way is so reactionary and treats government press releases with so much credulity when a mind altering substance is involved.
Nerdfest 7y ago
I keep seeing this headline, reading the articles and being disappointed that none of them seem to differentiate between cannabis/tobacco oil vaping (e-cigarettes) and dry-herb vaping. Dry her has no other chemicals, and no fillers. It just boils the THC/CBD and other cannabinoids out of the leaf. There is no smoke, and the vapour is pretty much colourless. It's very easy on the lungs and much better (and cheaper, I find) than smoking it. Those oil based vapes just seem nasty. Smaller vaporizer though, I guess.
ngcc_hk 7y ago
If it just killed the smoker unlike cigarettes, liberty issue. At best same treatment as cigarette

88 points by neom 7y ago

The Washington Post reported earlier today that this may be caused by marijuana vaping products which use Vitamin E to achieve a higher THC concentration: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20898456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20898456

scohesc 7y ago

I mean it's not surprising, considering that the only thing you should be breathing in is air, not anything else. (not that I personally follow that rule though :\) I wonder if it's an ingredient that's used to make it taste better - since the article posted an item of the "fun" flavored vape liquid. I don't think we should outright ban these devices like the one doctor mentioned in the article. Find out what specifically is causing the problem with lung deterioration and ban that ingredient from the mixture (Probably vitamin E acetate according to the article). Seems fairly simple.

shaneofalltrad 7y ago
I think Air has lost it's quality too, so breathing it is in need of some cannabis to offset the carcinogenic particles- just don't smoke E acetate or any other substance with it, keep the grow clean of chemicals and you will have healthy lungs IMHO. You do see studies of cannabis smokers having healthier lungs than non-smokers and nicotine smokers.
- skyyler 7y ago
  You need to update your information. Cannabis smoke, like any smoke generated from combustion of plant matter, contains a number of carcinogenic compounds. Smoking cannabis does not cure cancer. Quite the opposite. Your position that breathing air is unhealthy without cannabis is quite interesting. I'd love to see some of the studies you're talking about. I have never seen a study concluding that smoke inhalation is a good thing.

dr_dshiv 7y ago

This all seems like such terrible journalism. Vaping can refer to: 1. Juul and similar e-cigarette nicotine products 2. Iqos or Pax tobacco or marijuana non-combustion products 3. Legal Cannabis oil branded products 4. Illegal cannabis oil products. All issues have come from illegal products. No brands are mentioned. Clearly, contamination is the issue. It is irresponsible to blame "vaping" especially considering that the alternative is "smoking" -- which won't ever result in a newspaper article about sickness/death because it is so common. About 10 people a day die in swimming pools. But 4 total deaths ever is an epidemic?

rrix2 7y ago
This is as much the CDC's fault, it seems like, digging in to the underlying sources.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  This is the FDA's wheelhouse. CDC handles epidemiology.
  - nvrspyx 7y ago
    epidemiology > the branch of medicine which deals with the incidence, distribution, and possible control of diseases and other factors relating to health. disease > a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury. Is this not a disease? One of which the actual cause is still unknown and symptoms hitherto unseen? I guess it could still ultimately be the result of physical injury to the lungs, but it still seems up in the air. You may still be right, but I don't think it's as simple as "CDC handles epidemiology".
    - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
      They don't regulate the use or sale of controlled substances.

dpeck 7y ago

It feels like this is going to end up being very similar to the melamine milk situation in China in 2008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

cj 7y ago

There was a similar story on HN a few days ago. I found this thread to be a really interesting take on the possible cause: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20855683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20855683 TLDR: Vaporizer cartridges contain fillers. The fillers are apparently very expensive. The theory is people in the industry are trying to boost profits by using cheaper (never tested on humans) fillers that are potentially damaging to health. Whether or not this is true, I don't know, but it makes for an interesting theory.

rmetzler 7y ago

The main problem I see with vaping Cannabis extract is, there isn’t much that a consumer can do to verify the quality of the product. The cannabis could be contaminated with mold or neem oil from the grow up or it could be leftovers from the extraction method, because it wasn’t purged right. Neem oil is something that was cleared for fruits and vegetables, something that you wash and eat. But I think it would be poisonous when you inhale it.

balaksakrionon 7y ago
yes definitely a big issue; testing requirements must be improved, and there should be random samples of product batches taken for testing so companies cannot game the tests
scruple 7y ago
Not to mention who knows what pesticides and solvents. There's an Instagram user who has posted lab results from (legit, branded, supposedly reputable) cartridges that he's personally submitted. The results were enough to scare me away from the entire idea.

teilo 7y ago

I'm more concerned about the future backlash than the present reporting. I mean, remember the salmonella tomato scare in 2008? Restaurants around the country stopped putting tomatoes on their food, and grocery stores pulled all tomatoes from the shelves, until the issue was isolated and resolved. So while I do think it's quite the overreaction to tell everyone to stop using any and all vaping products, particularly people who are continuing to vape juices that have been used for years without issue, it's an understandable overreaction. In the end, they are going to find the issue, and it won't have anything to do with traditional e-cig alternatives to tobacco. But I suspect there will be legislative backlash that will be vastly disproportionate to the issue. They will punish innocent retailers, make e-cigs outrageously expensive by over-regulation, and discourage a large number of people from a product that really is substantially safer than the tobacco they are leaving behind.

dmix 7y ago
I just got a "breaking news" notification saying the CDC is recommending not vaping at all. This is definitely going to have some effect.
- gwbas1c 7y ago
  Do they provide context? You shouldn't vape and you shouldn't smoke, but plenty of people do unhealthy things for reasons that are difficult to explain and/or understand. So, is this a "finger wagging" recommendation, or is there a tangible reason to avoid vaping?
saghm 7y ago
> I mean, remember the salmonella tomato scare in 2008? Restaurants around the country stopped putting tomatoes on their food, and grocery stores pulled all tomatoes from the shelves, until the issue was isolated and resolved. If this follows a parallel path though, wouldn't this mean that vaping levels will basically be back to normal shortly after the cause is discovered? A temporary cessation of vaping until we can find and eliminate the cause of these health problems doesn't strike me as a huge issue.

drngdds 7y ago

It's pretty misleading that all the headlines are just calling this "vaping-related" when the actual cause is probably bad THC oil. How many people are going to stop vaping nicotine and go back to cigarettes after hearing about this? The number probably isn't zero, and those people are going to be at a greater risk for a litany of awful illnesses.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Havoc 7y ago
>It's pretty misleading that all the headlines are just calling this "vaping-related" when the actual cause is probably bad THC oil. That's pure speculation on your part. All of them are vaping related, but not all necessary THC related: >Many patients report using e-cigarette products with liquids that contain cannabinoid products The might be under-reporting due to THC legality fear. Or it may not be. Who knows? >at a greater risk for a litany of awful illnesses. Long term maybe. But whatever this is it seems to kill pretty fast.

arzt 7y ago

It would seem appropriate to caveat the fact in the headline that the vast majority of these cases were vaping with THC related products (although a majority had used a nicotine related product as well, exclusively nicotine related cases are much fewer).

DubiousPusher 7y ago

The media needs to slow their roll here. This totally has the vibe of the "Cuban sonic weapon attacks" or the "cops contact ODing on fentanyl" thing.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
draw_down 7y ago
Maybe, but the anticipation of something like this, a concrete reason to bash vaping, has been palpable for a while now. For a long time all they had was "it looks like smoking and smoking is unhealthy" or "nicotine is bad" or "tobacco companies are evil". Now it's "vaping will destroy your lungs and kill you". So I'd say this reaction is entirely predictable.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

dr_dshiv 7y ago

A majority of Americans believe that vaping is more dangerous than smoking. This kind of jounalism is literally killing people. https://reason.com/2019/04/10/the-percentage-of-americans-who-understa/ https://reason.com/2019/04/10/the-percentage-of-americans-wh...

derision 7y ago
> This kind of jounalism What kind? Accurate? Is it not true that these cases are increasing and deaths have happened in close succession? A lot of these vape cartridges are being made with untested adulterants or solvents that we have no idea about, especially black market cartridges and counterfeits from other countries. Until there's more testing and regulation around what is actually in these things, they are in fact more dangerous than smoking in my opinion. Smoking causes all kinds of issues over the long term, but these vape cartridges are causing serious acute illnesses. Maybe more dangerous is the wrong word. Vaping, at this point, is way more _risky_ than smoking, given the acute possibilities.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  To add to your comment, I’ve never flat out condemned vaping but I’ve always been skeptical. I was a smoker for almost ten years before I quit. After I quit my doctor ran some basic tests and blood work, etc. He told me that within 4-5 years my lungs would be as if I’d never smoked and that would also improve with regular exercise. That was about 4 years ago and I don’t feel the former construction in my lungs as I did back then. (Though I think I might have been a better singer, but there’s something to be said for warming up...) Anyway even after ten years of smoking and finally quitting my risk of any disease is extremely low—but only because I quit completely. The surge in popularity of vaping surely would draw in some less scrupulous device and cartridge manufacturers. Edit: Thought I should add a point of clarity here that I wouldn’t recommend cigarette smoking instead! Better off just to take a week away from work and hold up in bed if you’ve had a hard time kicking it. It’s those first couple of days that are the very worst.
- EpicEng 7y ago
  >What kind? Accurate? no, the type that omits relevant information in order to scare people. nearly every article I've seen talking about the dangers of vaping has failed to mention flaws in the studies that they cite, and there's never a follow-up. numerous articles were written citing a study that burned liquid at incredibly high temperatures. A person would never use a vape that way. In this case, we know that these people were vaping, but we have no cause. Another article came out today that found high amounts of vitamin e in THC oils these people were vaping[1]. I couldn't find a mention of that in the article. There are an estimated 10 million people who vape in this country. We have a tiny, tiny fraction who have demonstrable health issues related to it. in those cases it has almost always been a manufacturing issue, not an issue with vaping in general. I'm not trying to say it's perfectly safe, obviously that is unlikely to be the case, but cigarettes are absolutely going to kill you. [1]: https://beta.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/09/05/contaminant-found-vaping-products-linked-deadly-lung-illnesses-state-federal-labs-show/?outputType=amp https://beta.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/09/05/contaminan...

post_break 7y ago

Michigan banned flavors is going to cause a surge of this when people start to DIY it.

fourstar 7y ago

https://leafist.com/news/health/are-cannabis-vape-pens-safe https://leafist.com/news/health/are-cannabis-vape-pens-safe for a brief overview of the extraction process —- but as another commenter mentioned, the issue is there’s no verification. If you want to make real use of a blockchain, it’d be to tag all these cartridges with a QR code that is tied to specific farm, and there would be a third party that the county would require to test the contents. Then when I purchase I can view it on some public chain. This already happens for large scale growers at (reputatable) dispensaries who sell flower. Most larger companies (Marly Naturals, Jetty Extracts, to name a couple) in the cannabis space typically have good quality. As far as the nicotine vapes, it’s less regulated so you’re more likely to get some bad “juice” from a place with low/no standards.

hacknat 7y ago

I still am convinced that this is people vaping way too much at one time. Cannabinoids are “sticky” oils, i.e. pretty good binding agents. It’s plausible that a carcinogen (in an e cigarette) is binding to them that would otherwise be metabolized and creating a negative side effect. I do think vaping is probably better than smoking, but it is probably ideal not to be addicted to nicotine. It is much more dangerous to your long term health than either THC or alcohol (assuming you’re not an alcoholic). Best to lay off vaping weed and nicotine at the same time for now. That seems to be the common thread in these cases. As someone who only vapes weed, I have to say I’m not too worried. Edit: Corrected brain fart of saying “weed and marijuana” instead of “weed and nicotine”.

balaksakrionon 7y ago
What do you mean by: vaping weed and marijuana at the same time ? Or do you mean weed + nicotine?
- hacknat 7y ago
  Yep, thanks.

dr_dshiv 7y ago

The british NHS claims that vaping is at least 95% more safe than smoking. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/vaping-quit-smoking-cigarettes-health-nhs-lung-damage-cancer-tobacco-a8701506.html%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/heal...

theshadowknows 7y ago

“Surged” from zero to five.

DubiousPusher 7y ago

It blows my mind how HN which can discuss many issues in a nuanced and skeptical way is so reactionary and treats government press releases with so much credulity when a mind altering substance is involved.

Nerdfest 7y ago

I keep seeing this headline, reading the articles and being disappointed that none of them seem to differentiate between cannabis/tobacco oil vaping (e-cigarettes) and dry-herb vaping. Dry her has no other chemicals, and no fillers. It just boils the THC/CBD and other cannabinoids out of the leaf. There is no smoke, and the vapour is pretty much colourless. It's very easy on the lungs and much better (and cheaper, I find) than smoking it. Those oil based vapes just seem nasty. Smaller vaporizer though, I guess.

ngcc_hk 7y ago

If it just killed the smoker unlike cigarettes, liberty issue. At best same treatment as cigarette