5 ms·

Nurburgring Ring times. P100D has terrible thermal management and goes into limp mode before completing the course. If people really cared about 0 to 60 times

by adrr 7y ago

Nurburgring Ring times. P100D has terrible thermal management and goes into limp mode before completing the course. If people really cared about 0 to 60 times, we see a lot more Dodge Demons on the road instead of 911s and Corvettes. If Porsche can get price point for a regular Taycan below $100k, i'll gladly trade in my Porsche and Tesla for one because it does everything i want. I can drive canyon roads and never have to fill up.

elonismycopilot 7y ago
Nurburing will be put to the test next week. To compare a 2014 model S or even p85 is pointless. Until then it is just another attempt at hand waving and cherry picking from Porsche.
- dragontamer 7y ago
  > Nurburing will be put to the test next week. Unlikely. The track is fully booked for a while. I know that Musk wants to get an apples-to-apples comparison between the two cars, but Musk needed to start working on this (starting with a Nurburing reservation) months ago. I'm sure they'll get a test-run in within a few months, but there's no way they'll get the info within a week.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  Lots of jeering on Twitter right now as Nürburgring is saying that Tesla does not have a lap reservation for them next week as Musk had claimed. https://twitter.com/RoadandTrack/status/1170044182808977408 https://twitter.com/RoadandTrack/status/1170044182808977408 > Porsche has tons of experience setting fast Nürburgring lap times, and a huge asset in the form of factory racer Lars Kern. The Model S Performance is a quick car, but Tesla has no prior experience attempting to lap the Nürburgring. It's hard to imagine the automaker could go out and beat Porsche on its first visit to the track. Maybe they're hoping Autopilot will set the track record? LOL
rconti 7y ago
Sure, and it's an ancient car, by EV standards. I'd hope that a Porsche that nobody has taken delivery of yet and costs way more is better. Last time I was at the track (in my BMW M car, mind you) we had a couple of Model 3 Performance cars, and a couple of Model S. I could pass the Model S with ease. I couldn't get close to the Model 3 Performance.
- adrr 7y ago
  Model 3 performance needs ceramic brakes for the ring. Car is too heavy for the Brembos and it is at the limit for brake size.
  - kenhwang 7y ago
    The Taycan currently only comes with two brake options: carbon surface coated brakes or full carbon ceramic brakes.
    - giobox 7y ago
      Porsche have said in many interviews the coating is for cosmetics rather than performance. Like most electric cars, when driving “normally” you don’t really ever touch the brakes as the energy regen that kicks in when you step off the accelerator pedal slows the car down so effectively. Porsche were worried the discs would develop unsightly surface corrosion from lack of use for some drivers - the coating keeps them looking good.
      - compiler-guy 7y ago
        The Taycan freewheels when you take your foot off the accelerator and only regenerates when you hit the brakes. This is quite different than most other electric cars.
        kenhwang 7y ago
        That's just a default configuration difference. You can configure it to do lift-off regen if you like. There's also a camera based auto-regen mode that can switch between coasting and regen based on the distance to the car in front. Philosophically, Porsche believes it's easier to drive a car fast when one pedal is solely responsible for accelerating and one for braking. Having the throttle be responsible for acceleration and light braking makes it difficult to modulate speed consistently. You can even see the philosophy at work on their gasoline cars, in Sport+ mode the anti-lag system pretty much removes engine braking.
eldenbishop 7y ago
From road and track: """At launch, Porsche will offer two versions of the Taycan—the Turbo and Turbo S. The Turbo will carry an MSRP of $153,510 at launch, while the Turbo S will cost $187,610. Both of those numbers are minus destination charge.""" I suppose that leaves room for a non-turbo (lol) Taycan closer to your prices sometime in the future.
- lutorm 7y ago
  What's the turbo doing?
  - eldenbishop 7y ago
    I (lol)ed because "turbo" and "turbo-s" are a naming convention from their conventional cars that is fairly non-sensical on an electric car given that they don't have turbochargers. Eg. Macan < Macan S < Macan Turbo Of course, the two non-turbo Macan models above both turbochargers so the moniker really just means "the fastest model" in Porsche speak.
    - detaro 7y ago
      The combustion non-turbo 911s also have turbochargers, so yes, long time marketing label, not feature description.
      - lutorm 7y ago
        hilarious :)
      - theluketaylor 7y ago
        Plus the GT2RS has a turbo but doesn't have a turbo trim. And the various GT3 cars don't have a turbo.
      - TylerE 7y ago
        That’s more a marketing thing and emissions driving them to use small turbo 4 cylinders. Up until 2-3 years ago the bae 911 was naturally aspirated

by adrr 7y ago

elonismycopilot 7y ago

Nurburing will be put to the test next week. To compare a 2014 model S or even p85 is pointless. Until then it is just another attempt at hand waving and cherry picking from Porsche.

dragontamer 7y ago
> Nurburing will be put to the test next week. Unlikely. The track is fully booked for a while. I know that Musk wants to get an apples-to-apples comparison between the two cars, but Musk needed to start working on this (starting with a Nurburing reservation) months ago. I'm sure they'll get a test-run in within a few months, but there's no way they'll get the info within a week.
AndrewBissell 7y ago
Lots of jeering on Twitter right now as Nürburgring is saying that Tesla does not have a lap reservation for them next week as Musk had claimed. https://twitter.com/RoadandTrack/status/1170044182808977408 https://twitter.com/RoadandTrack/status/1170044182808977408 > Porsche has tons of experience setting fast Nürburgring lap times, and a huge asset in the form of factory racer Lars Kern. The Model S Performance is a quick car, but Tesla has no prior experience attempting to lap the Nürburgring. It's hard to imagine the automaker could go out and beat Porsche on its first visit to the track. Maybe they're hoping Autopilot will set the track record? LOL

rconti 7y ago

Sure, and it's an ancient car, by EV standards. I'd hope that a Porsche that nobody has taken delivery of yet and costs way more is better. Last time I was at the track (in my BMW M car, mind you) we had a couple of Model 3 Performance cars, and a couple of Model S. I could pass the Model S with ease. I couldn't get close to the Model 3 Performance.

adrr 7y ago
Model 3 performance needs ceramic brakes for the ring. Car is too heavy for the Brembos and it is at the limit for brake size.
- kenhwang 7y ago
  The Taycan currently only comes with two brake options: carbon surface coated brakes or full carbon ceramic brakes.
  - giobox 7y ago
    Porsche have said in many interviews the coating is for cosmetics rather than performance. Like most electric cars, when driving “normally” you don’t really ever touch the brakes as the energy regen that kicks in when you step off the accelerator pedal slows the car down so effectively. Porsche were worried the discs would develop unsightly surface corrosion from lack of use for some drivers - the coating keeps them looking good.
    - compiler-guy 7y ago
      The Taycan freewheels when you take your foot off the accelerator and only regenerates when you hit the brakes. This is quite different than most other electric cars.
      - kenhwang 7y ago
        That's just a default configuration difference. You can configure it to do lift-off regen if you like. There's also a camera based auto-regen mode that can switch between coasting and regen based on the distance to the car in front. Philosophically, Porsche believes it's easier to drive a car fast when one pedal is solely responsible for accelerating and one for braking. Having the throttle be responsible for acceleration and light braking makes it difficult to modulate speed consistently. You can even see the philosophy at work on their gasoline cars, in Sport+ mode the anti-lag system pretty much removes engine braking.

eldenbishop 7y ago

From road and track: """At launch, Porsche will offer two versions of the Taycan—the Turbo and Turbo S. The Turbo will carry an MSRP of $153,510 at launch, while the Turbo S will cost $187,610. Both of those numbers are minus destination charge.""" I suppose that leaves room for a non-turbo (lol) Taycan closer to your prices sometime in the future.

lutorm 7y ago
What's the turbo doing?
- eldenbishop 7y ago
  I (lol)ed because "turbo" and "turbo-s" are a naming convention from their conventional cars that is fairly non-sensical on an electric car given that they don't have turbochargers. Eg. Macan < Macan S < Macan Turbo Of course, the two non-turbo Macan models above both turbochargers so the moniker really just means "the fastest model" in Porsche speak.
  - detaro 7y ago
    The combustion non-turbo 911s also have turbochargers, so yes, long time marketing label, not feature description.
    - lutorm 7y ago
      hilarious :)
    - theluketaylor 7y ago
      Plus the GT2RS has a turbo but doesn't have a turbo trim. And the various GT3 cars don't have a turbo.
    - TylerE 7y ago
      That’s more a marketing thing and emissions driving them to use small turbo 4 cylinders. Up until 2-3 years ago the bae 911 was naturally aspirated