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Jeffrey Epstein’s Donations Create a Schism at M.I.T.’s Media Lab
- RickJWagner 7y ago"he used an earthier term". Nice phrasing. It gets the message across, but allows polite consideration. I hope we see more writing of this kind (again).
- spraak 7y agoI'm left wondering what the term is Edit: I did check the tweet. I was trying to point out that it's not clear what the "earthier" term is, in disagreement with the parent post.
- NateEag 7y agoThe tweet they linked tells you: https://mobile.twitter.com/Joi/status/770625716?s=20 https://mobile.twitter.com/Joi/status/770625716?s=20
- spraak 7y agoSorry, yes I checked the tweet. I was trying to point out that it's not clear what the "earthier" term is, in disagreement with the parent post.
- Pinckney 7y ago"asshole" Personally, I hate this Bowdlerization from the Times. It changes the meaning of the tweet, and it's not even the worst case where I've seen their desire for propriety interfere with their core mission of informing their readers about the world. If their readers are uncomfortable with words like asshole, maybe a source like Time for Kids would be more appropriate for them.
- Deimorz 7y agoStrongly disagree. It's ridiculous to see a prominent newspaper act afraid of writing a naughty word in an article related to Jeffrey Epstein, sex-trafficking, and other similar subjects. It's worse that they changed someone's quote. If they didn't want to print "asshole" they should have either found a way to "bleep" it, or just not used that quote. Changing what someone said shouldn't even be considered.
- NikkiA 7y agoPerhaps the nytimes is worried about being sued by rich pedophiles.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- alexryan 7y agoI cannot think of anything more terrifying than high IQ sociopaths.
- yjftsjthsd-h 7y agoReally? I'm more scared of the reverse: Sincerely well-meaning people who fail to fully consider their actions and therefore end up pushing terrible ideas with extreme force because they are so convinced that they're right. "Think of the children!" (destroys privacy, institutionalizes censorship) "Save the environment!" (switches to a product that turns out to have higher total impact) "Stop the pedophiles!" (organizes witch hunt and throws out burden of proof) “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” ― C. S. Lewis --- EDIT: Realized I should point out - the dig at pedophile witch hunts isn't meant as a commentary on this article, it's just a generic example.
- alexryan 7y agoIt’s a fair point and a genuine real phenomenon. However, in my experience, people with low PCR-L scores who make bad decisions when in emotional states are likely to change their position when they realize they have inadvertently harmed the innocent. Genuine psychopaths, on the other hand, are incurable predators.
- alexryan 7y agoIt’s a fair point and a genuinely real phenomenon. However, in my experience, people with low PCL-R scores who make bad decisions when in emotional states are likely to change their position when they realize they have inadvertently harmed the innocent. Genuine psychopaths, on the other hand, are incurable predators.
- solveit 7y ago
- stickfigure 7y agoThis is dumb. If Charles Manson wants to give your institution money, take it and do something positive with it.
- serioussecurity 7y agoEpstein would use his connection to these institutions as cover with peers, and as a way to find clients. There's evidence this includes Marvin Minsky.
- mymythisisthis 7y agoHe died in 2016 at 87 years of age. Epstein's peak years of operation were in the late 90s? That makes Minsky around 69/70 when he would have been using Epstein's girls. I wonder if Minksky just thought it was a run of the mill escort service?
- NateEag 7y agoAnd then three years later find yourself defending his character sincerely, because after all, he's given so much to help the great causes you have undertaken. Yes, there were those indiscretions and terrible rumors, but surely you should encourage the good in this man! A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
- losvedir 7y ago> And then three years later find yourself defending his character sincerely, because after all, he's given so much to help the great causes you have undertaken. Source? I tend to agree with OP that MIT is fine in taking the money. But if they went on and defended him later then obviously that's beyond the pale.
- mturmon 7y agoTaking the money will create a desire to defend the donor. In some idealized world, this doesn't have to happen, but in the real world, it will. For instance, eventually the donor will come to town and want a tour of the lab he donated to, or dinner with the dean at the faculty club. You started out with money, and now you have a relationship. From all accounts, Epstein in particular was a master at this. It also creates a link (which is bi-directional) between the prestigious institution and the donor. This association, after all, is part of the reason people give to institutions like MIT and not to their local community college. Some of the prestige "rubs off".
- kwindla 7y agoMIT Technology Review article with more details about the Media Lab all hands meeting referenced in the Times story: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614264/mit-media-lab-jeffrey-epstein-joi-ito-nicholas-negroponte-funding-sex-abuse/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614264/mit-media-lab-jeff...
- gaogao 7y agohttps://www.technologyreview.com/s/614264/mit-media-lab-jeffrey-epstein-joi-ito-nicholas-negroponte-funding-sex-abuse/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614264/mit-media-lab-jeff... has some more details about the meeting. Found it a slightly better read than this one.
- johntiger1 7y agoIf I was MIT, I'd be more worried about the connection between Minsky and Epstein. Money is one thing, but can MIT dissociate from a (renowned) faculty member who steered the field of AI?
- geofft 7y agoRelevantly, Minsky is dead and Negroponte and Ito aren't. That means that the form of disassociating with him is different (they can't fire him/ask him to resign anymore, and there are no calls to do so), and moreover he's subconsciously judged as a "product of his time."
- stjohnswarts 7y agoAnyone who judges an entire University and student body over one faculty member is a abject moron.
- droithomme 7y agoI also have issues with what they did to Aaron Swartz. And I don't like that Minsky was a pedophile. Pedophiles of that stature seldom work alone. Who else there is a pedophile? Why are MIT students so much more likely to commit suicide? http://reappropriate.co/2015/05/asian-american-student-suicide-rate-at-mit-is-quadruple-the-national-average/ http://reappropriate.co/2015/05/asian-american-student-suici... https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/03/16/suicide-rate-mit-higher-than-national-average/1aGWr7lRjiEyhoD1WIT78I/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/03/16/suicide-rate-mi... > Between 1964-2000, a study found that 47 students died by suicide on the MIT campus, which translates to a rate of 14.6 deaths per 100,000 students — roughly twice the national average (7.5 per 100,000) for college-aged students. Among undergraduates, that rate was even higher: a shocking 21.2 deaths by suicide per 100,000 students.
- liability 7y agoStress I'd guess. How does the MIT suicide rate compare to similarly high profile and difficult schools?
- acbart 7y agoNegroponte really boofed up with the One-Laptop-Per-Child project. It had a lot of good intentions, but it's such a textbook example of misguided tech folks inserting themselves into an education setting. From this article, sounds like another strike for him.
- Gibbon1 7y agoTalking to teachers I know, no one, especially tech people believes they know what they are doing.
- vnchr 7y agoEpstein’s One-Lap-Per-Child project was far more misguided. The standard demonstrated here for accepting of donations is disgusting.
- scruple 7y agoI would normally never tell someone this because it's generally very unimportant... But, in this case I think it's probably warranted, so that you know for the future. The word "boof" [0] has come to mean something very different in recent times. [0]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boof#Verb_2 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boof#Verb_2
- liability 7y agoIs this sort of slang not similar to 'fucked up' or 'screwed the pooch'?
- scruple 7y agoSlang as in the definitions given in the link I provided? No, that slang and the common usage of the word you see associated with it today online and in younger generations is not at all similar to 'fucked up' or 'screwed the pooch.'
- jacobolus 7y agoWhere by “younger generations” you mean “people younger than 60” (source: Supreme Court Justice Boofing Bart O'Kavanaugh’s high school yearbook)
- jtlienwis 7y agoTaking money from a man that was convicted of earning money from sexually exploiting children makes taking money from a bank robber look virtuous.
- stickfigure 7y agoEh? He was convicted of giving money to children in exchange for sex. There have been accusations that he got his start by embezzling from Wexner, but as far as anyone can tell so far, the bulk of Epstein's wealth is "legitimate".
- baudehlo 7y agoI really hope you re-evaluate this comment. You italicized “giving”, I assume to imply something. This man was clearly a monster, and I don’t need a court to tell me that.
- hnaccy 7y agoThe implication I assume is that his money including this donation was not earned via child prostitution and was not as such inherently dirty or tainted. It'd be an even worse look if MIT was directly using money earned from child abuse.
- saagarjha 7y ago…what you just mentioned is still very illegal.
- droithomme 7y ago> the bulk of Epstein's wealth is "legitimate" OK, how did he earn it? He didn't invest anywhere despite his claims to be running a hedge fund. Most of his assets were transfers from Wexler, or donations from leveraged associates laundered through charities. I've not seen any path through which he had any legitimate income or earnings at all.
- sp332 7y agoI figured he took money from other people to let them abuse the girls.
- crb002 7y agoSure the media lab can earmark the funds to human trafficking research. Got lemons? Make lemonade.
- sp332 7y agoThe division right now isn't about the money, it's about Joi Ito and his decision to legitimize Epstein and invite him to be around the Lab. In addition to the risks he already took, there's the question of whether he can be trusted to exhibit better judgement in the future or not.
- geofft 7y agoHere are the results of some human trafficking research I did just now: Epstein was awful, everyone knew he was awful, and nobody in polite society should have associated with him. OK, what do you want to do with the rest of the money? Develop an app that tells you not to pal around with pedophiles? Maybe we'll make a green laptop with an OLED screen and give it to children so we know who not to let the pedophile near? Seriously, what needs to be researched here? The gap is not a lack of research, it's a lack of moral resolve to do what everyone knows the right thing is.
- viraptor 7y ago> OK, what do you want to do with the rest of the money? ... Seriously, what needs to be researched here? These efforts / organisations know and could likely use some help: https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/justice-policy-center/projects/human-trafficking-research-portfolio https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/justice-policy-center/p...
- seph-reed 7y agoWhy would anyone direct their anger in regards to the Epstein case towards MIT? Surely, there are some billionaire child rapists more worthy of such attention.
- Animats 7y ago"Negroponte said that he prided himself on knowing over 80% of the billionaires in the US on a first-name basis." He went to Choate, the prep school. "There is no door in this entire country that cannot be opened by a Choate graduate" - John Lupton, director of development at Choate.
- gumby 7y agoThat was already set up by the time he got to Choate; e.g. his roommate at La Rosey is now the Aga Kahn. He grew up embedded in that world. Source: I used to work for Nicholas and in fact lived in one of his houses for a while.
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- itoshouldgo 7y agoIt is time for Joichi Ito to be removed or he can voluntarily resign. I've had it with the character and misguided decisions for some time.
- duxup 7y ago>Nicholas Negroponte, a prominent architect who helped found the lab in 1985, told the crowd that he had met Mr. Epstein at least once since Mr. Epstein’s 2008 guilty plea in Florida for soliciting a minor for prostitution, and had advised Mr. Ito about the donations. >“I told Joi to take the money,” he said, “and I would do it again.” Was that supposed to....help?
- rasz 7y agoNegroponte also took Microsoft money fracturing OLPC initiative http://www.olpcnews.com/software/windows/windows_xp_on_the_xo.html http://www.olpcnews.com/software/windows/windows_xp_on_the_x...
- dumbfoundded 7y agoIt's a tricky subject. I lean for taking the money. I used to work in the media lab and honestly, it seems like a decent place. Pretty much everyone there is giving up a much larger salary at a FANG company to work on interesting things. Did the Media Lab help Mr. Epstein rape more children in any way by taking the money? Probably not. Evil people can do good things. The world is complicated. If people really want to start tracking the provenance of funding, perhaps we should start with investigating larger sums. No one in Silicon Valley seems to have any trouble taking money from Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund.
- kelnos 7y agoI... kinda don't see what the big deal is? The article is kinda a mess and it's really hard for me to see what actual justification (or anti-justification) it's trying to push. Yes, Epstein was a scumbag. Did Ito know he was a scumbag when he took the money? And even if he did, would taking the money put him, the Media Lab, or anyone who worked there in a compromised or awkward position in the future? Was the money itself tainted in some way, derived from scumbag activities? If not (I couldn't really glean whether or not this was the case from the article), then... so what? Money is money, and it's hard enough already to raise money for "out there" research, even with MIT's reputation. At the very least, you could know that a scumbag's money was being used to do something actually good.
- jacobolus 7y agoThis was after Epstein’s 2008 guilty plea for child prostitution (not to mention several civil suits for child prostitution settled out of court). Rumors of Epstein’s large-scale child sex ring were widespread. > would taking the money put him, the Media Lab, or anyone who worked there in a compromised or awkward position in the future? Many researchers don’t want their paycheck to come from a child prostitution kingpin who made a career blackmailing rich pedophiles who had raped his child sex slaves.
- ryacko 7y agoThere are several ways to approach the matter. Negroponte took the worst possible way to approach it after Ito made a long speech. >“I told Joi to take the money,” he said, “and I would do it again.” That statement implies he doesn’t care at all. There are other ways to handle it, like he does care, but there’s nothing he can do about it, or have an excuse that Epstein had no control over the use of the funds (if true), but to say something like “Yeah, big deal, I’d do business with the guy again” is tactless.
- luckylion 7y ago> That statement implies he doesn’t care at all. Not necessarily, he might care and weigh options and consequences and come to a different conclusion than you, me or most people. If he still comes to that conclusion today, "I would do it again" is the obvious answer.
- aaron695 7y agoAlways great to see people virtual signal (once told it's ok to) they think the idea that a criminal who is punished should continue to be punished past the legal system using mob justice. Throw in obviously out of context quotes and win! Taking money and doing good is a way to simple idea in this complex society, can't tweet about that.
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- ykevinator 7y agoThe media lab is a self indulgent stain on an otherwise perfect institution, and secondly, take the money. This morality contest has got to stop.
- jaclaz 7y agoNot exactly a brand new doubt/question, only for the record: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecunia_non_olet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecunia_non_olet
- joelx 7y agoIf you are doing something that is a good cause, you should take money wherever you can get it without any ethical concerns. I would much rather have the MIT media lab to have that money than Jeffrey Epstein. The only thing to watch out for is to make sure you are not rehabilitating an evil person's reputation. But if it donation is made anonymously or quietly, it should be okay.
- Qo2 7y agoSay the media lab takes his money, and then decides that they don't want to be associated with him or his alleged activities. Should they give it back? Should they set it aside? Throw it into a temple? Something else? Was it even really his (Epstein's) to begin with? Genuinely curious, here.