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I remember one of my acquaintances on Facebook shared a sad story of how the app they developed was stolen by Apple: it trackedyour iPhone activity. They went

I remember one of my acquaintances on Facebook shared a sad story of how the app they developed was stolen by Apple: it trackedyour iPhone activity. They went in detail about the “revolutionary” tech behind it: they made you set up a VPN on your phone so that they could track all of your net activity, from that they would estimate your screen time with the apps. There was a long set of paragraphs on how Apple is taking advantage of independent developers. I mean - I hate the fact that I can’t change the default browser to Firefox, too. But making the users set your logging VPN under the guise of “making your life healthier by knowing how much time you spend on the phone” is another level.

Zelphyr 7y ago
Setting up a VPN that tracks all of your network activity? That makes me queasy. Why should I trust these people to keep all that valuable network traffic data private for me? Apple didn't steal this idea. They may have implemented it in a better way given their low-level system access but, in this case, and in my opinion, I'd rather this be something the OS tracks for me for free by a company that doesn't make their money off the sale of my private personal data.
- kristofferR 7y ago
  It's a local VPN, all on device. Still a workaround, but data isn't being sent anywhere though.
  - msh 7y ago
    How can a VPN be local? If there is no vpn server at the other end is it really a VPN?
    - tinus_hn 7y ago
      The VPN is local if both the client and the server are local.
    - Crosseye_Jack 7y ago
      The phone itself is the VPN Server. Its a trick used for the app to look at some of the network traffic. Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 app does the same thing but for DNS, to capture the DNS requests from the phone you need to create a "local vpn", but not all your traffic is going though Cloudflare (yet, they do plan to add a VPN to the 1.1.1.1 app at some point). EDIT: All Custom DNS settings apps for mobile connections on iPhone (I forget if Android is the same) ate like this. I use nextdns and their app does the same.
      - msh 7y ago
        Thanks for the explanation
  - heavenlyblue 7y ago
    In their case it wasn't a local VPN.
    - kristofferR 7y ago
      True, I somehow though we were talking about the digital wellbeing apps that Apple copied and banned.
DevKoala 7y ago
I see what you did there :clap
- wutbrodo 7y ago
  I don't understand, what did he do there?
  - DevKoala 7y ago
    https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      That doesn't fit the description.
zenexer 7y ago
Judging by the replies to this, there seems to be some confusion about what’s being referenced. heavenlyblue is describing Apple’s crackdown on Facebook’s Project Atlas from Facebook’s perspective. Facebook developed a very intrusive app and utilized MDM to allow people to install it, since they couldn’t list it in the App Store. This isn’t the purpose of MDM, of course; when Apple found out, they revoked Facebook’s MDM certificate. Facebook wasn’t happy about this, especially since their internal company apps stopped working on iOS. I believe heavenlblue is pointing out that Apple’s strict rules and closed ecosystem have their benefits. I’m not sure I understand how that’s relevant to the article, though.
- pseudalopex 7y ago
  They're describing Screen Time and the third party apps it replaced. Project Atlas also used a VPN, but it was advertised as a paid study.
  - woadwarrior01 7y ago
    Yes indeed, they’re likely not talking about Project Atlas, but this story[1]. Also, the OP on that story, framing it as Apple stealing their idea is a bit of a stretch, IMO. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20206686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20206686
m-p-3 7y ago
Not to mention that Apple doesn't even provide monthly data usage per app, unless you reset your stats each time. Come on, Android had that feature since at least Android 4.0, if not earlier than that, and you can specific the day your billing cycle happens. Some apps like My Data Manager[1] requires the use of an loopback VPN to achieve that. [1]: https://apps.apple.com/app/my-data-manager-vpn-security/id477865384 https://apps.apple.com/app/my-data-manager-vpn-security/id47...
- dwaite 7y ago
  I think the data usage reset is a side effect of certain carriers not supporting the proper features. My T-Mobile US plan seems to reset itself every month.
OkGoDoIt 7y ago
But let’s say you want something that tracks your app usage, before Apple had built that into the operating system. There’s no good APIs to do that, certainly for privacy reasons because many app developers are sleazy, but having it not be possible at all is frustrating. The VPN workaround is definitely a hack, but if it accomplishes your goal then I think it’s pretty ingenious to do so. I love how iOS does many things to respect my privacy, and limits what app developers can do by default. I absolutely love that I can disable camera or location or whatever access on an app by app basis, because by default I don’t trust app developers. But there are some things I really wish I could do with my phone and I have no way to tell my phone to trust an app to do something that is extremely sensitive.
tomc1985 7y ago
That's exactly the sort of chicanery that makes me resent having development so accessible. The end justifies the means, whatever they are, with no regard for how those means are supposedly justified and achieved. Keep tech elitist, I say...
- kennywinker 7y ago
  the idea that elites behave more morally than non-elites (whatever they are) is so ridiculous I have to assume you're being sarcastic. low bar to entry just means LOTS of stuff happens, not that a larger percentage of bad stuff happens. the vpn skullduggery referenced by the OP was being done by facebook. you think they couldn't afford to pay an elite coder to do exactly that?
  - tomc1985 7y ago
    Yes but historically there's been a stronger sense of culture around engineering excellence, more channels for setting errant programmers straight, and they were considerably more accessible than they are now. While I agree with your statements about elites in general, all one has to do is look at how much less dangerous and more trustworthy the internet was circa 20 years ago (relative, I know, I'm not saying it was 100% safe or even 90% safe).

Zelphyr 7y ago

Setting up a VPN that tracks all of your network activity? That makes me queasy. Why should I trust these people to keep all that valuable network traffic data private for me? Apple didn't steal this idea. They may have implemented it in a better way given their low-level system access but, in this case, and in my opinion, I'd rather this be something the OS tracks for me for free by a company that doesn't make their money off the sale of my private personal data.

kristofferR 7y ago
It's a local VPN, all on device. Still a workaround, but data isn't being sent anywhere though.
- msh 7y ago
  How can a VPN be local? If there is no vpn server at the other end is it really a VPN?
  - tinus_hn 7y ago
    The VPN is local if both the client and the server are local.
  - Crosseye_Jack 7y ago
    The phone itself is the VPN Server. Its a trick used for the app to look at some of the network traffic. Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 app does the same thing but for DNS, to capture the DNS requests from the phone you need to create a "local vpn", but not all your traffic is going though Cloudflare (yet, they do plan to add a VPN to the 1.1.1.1 app at some point). EDIT: All Custom DNS settings apps for mobile connections on iPhone (I forget if Android is the same) ate like this. I use nextdns and their app does the same.
    - msh 7y ago
      Thanks for the explanation
- heavenlyblue 7y ago
  In their case it wasn't a local VPN.
  - kristofferR 7y ago
    True, I somehow though we were talking about the digital wellbeing apps that Apple copied and banned.

DevKoala 7y ago

I see what you did there :clap

wutbrodo 7y ago
I don't understand, what did he do there?
- DevKoala 7y ago
  https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    That doesn't fit the description.

zenexer 7y ago

Judging by the replies to this, there seems to be some confusion about what’s being referenced. heavenlyblue is describing Apple’s crackdown on Facebook’s Project Atlas from Facebook’s perspective. Facebook developed a very intrusive app and utilized MDM to allow people to install it, since they couldn’t list it in the App Store. This isn’t the purpose of MDM, of course; when Apple found out, they revoked Facebook’s MDM certificate. Facebook wasn’t happy about this, especially since their internal company apps stopped working on iOS. I believe heavenlblue is pointing out that Apple’s strict rules and closed ecosystem have their benefits. I’m not sure I understand how that’s relevant to the article, though.

pseudalopex 7y ago
They're describing Screen Time and the third party apps it replaced. Project Atlas also used a VPN, but it was advertised as a paid study.
- woadwarrior01 7y ago
  Yes indeed, they’re likely not talking about Project Atlas, but this story[1]. Also, the OP on that story, framing it as Apple stealing their idea is a bit of a stretch, IMO. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20206686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20206686

m-p-3 7y ago

Not to mention that Apple doesn't even provide monthly data usage per app, unless you reset your stats each time. Come on, Android had that feature since at least Android 4.0, if not earlier than that, and you can specific the day your billing cycle happens. Some apps like My Data Manager[1] requires the use of an loopback VPN to achieve that. [1]: https://apps.apple.com/app/my-data-manager-vpn-security/id477865384 https://apps.apple.com/app/my-data-manager-vpn-security/id47...

dwaite 7y ago
I think the data usage reset is a side effect of certain carriers not supporting the proper features. My T-Mobile US plan seems to reset itself every month.

OkGoDoIt 7y ago

But let’s say you want something that tracks your app usage, before Apple had built that into the operating system. There’s no good APIs to do that, certainly for privacy reasons because many app developers are sleazy, but having it not be possible at all is frustrating. The VPN workaround is definitely a hack, but if it accomplishes your goal then I think it’s pretty ingenious to do so. I love how iOS does many things to respect my privacy, and limits what app developers can do by default. I absolutely love that I can disable camera or location or whatever access on an app by app basis, because by default I don’t trust app developers. But there are some things I really wish I could do with my phone and I have no way to tell my phone to trust an app to do something that is extremely sensitive.

tomc1985 7y ago

That's exactly the sort of chicanery that makes me resent having development so accessible. The end justifies the means, whatever they are, with no regard for how those means are supposedly justified and achieved. Keep tech elitist, I say...

kennywinker 7y ago
the idea that elites behave more morally than non-elites (whatever they are) is so ridiculous I have to assume you're being sarcastic. low bar to entry just means LOTS of stuff happens, not that a larger percentage of bad stuff happens. the vpn skullduggery referenced by the OP was being done by facebook. you think they couldn't afford to pay an elite coder to do exactly that?
- tomc1985 7y ago
  Yes but historically there's been a stronger sense of culture around engineering excellence, more channels for setting errant programmers straight, and they were considerably more accessible than they are now. While I agree with your statements about elites in general, all one has to do is look at how much less dangerous and more trustworthy the internet was circa 20 years ago (relative, I know, I'm not saying it was 100% safe or even 90% safe).