6 ms·

I spent a few minutes of DuckDuckGo'ing but couldn't find anything... does anyone know if there's a way to see how/if these fines are actually being paid? UPDA

I spent a few minutes of DuckDuckGo'ing but couldn't find anything... does anyone know if there's a way to see how/if these fines are actually being paid? UPDATE: Looks like most fines are paid to the US Treasury. [1][2] There seems to be some info on this page, but it appears to be only for sanctions violations (OFAC): https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/CivPen/Pages/civpen-index2.aspx https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/CivPen/Pa... [1] https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/11/05/good-question-where-does-money-from-government-fines-go/ https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/11/05/good-question-wher... [2] https://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/When-government-fines-companies-who-gets-cash-3189724.php https://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/When-govern...

satya71 7y ago
The fine is also tax-deductible.
- mey 7y ago
  Do larger companies optimize when they pay fines to adjust their tax burden?
- krustyburger 7y ago
  Which is especially irksome because Alphabet pays such a low rate already.
  - Naga 7y ago
    Taxes are assessed at a percentage of income. If a fine is deductible, you have lower income, and your taxes are lower, yes. But you paid the government for that right! If your tax rate is 30% and you pay a $1000 fine, you save $300 in taxes. But you paid $1000 for that right!
    - Ntrails 7y ago
      > If your tax rate is 30% and you pay a $1000 fine, you save $300 in taxes. But you paid $1000 for that right! What it actually means is that your effective net punishment/fine is $700, irrespective of the headline number. Which matters if the numbers are designed to be impactful.
      - erikpukinskis 7y ago
        You’re advocating for having three categories in corporate accounting instead of two: revenue, costs, and penalties? Ostensibly the courts would factor in tax benefits to their calculations for punitive damages, under the current system. I don’t believe there are any limits on what punitive damages can account for, beyond “make it hurt”. Not sure if this is a fine written into law though, which would not be able to easily account for tax differences.
        bryanrasmussen 7y ago
        not being an accountant as I understand it in my country fines to the tax ministry are not tax deductible. So if this is the case in other countries there would be some legal precedence for saying "fines for this type of offense are not tax deductible"
        throwaway_law 7y ago
        Its still just two categories revenue/costs. Not all costs are legitimate business expenses and tax deductible. Certainly, penalties that follow as a result of violations of law should not be tax deductible business expenses.
        tick_tock_tick 7y ago
        Every single cost is. The only thing corps are taxed on is profit if you pay a fine you made less profit there isn't some hidden bullshit.
        nothrabannosir 7y ago
  - akavi 7y ago
    If Alphabet pays a low rate, then the benefit of a tax deduction's reduced, so I'm not sure I understand the "especially" here.
    - outside1234 7y ago
      Because it effectively still makes the fine lower?
    - FussyZeus 7y ago
      Because penalties for bad behavior shouldn't come out of your tax burden? I dunno if that's what GP meant but it's certainly horrendously unethical enough for me.
- nvr219 7y ago
  The tax-deduction is also cursed
- llama052 7y ago
  This irritates me more than it should, but again I'm not getting tax-deductions for speeding tickets or fines.
- noname120 7y ago
  Do you know where I could find more information about this? This is very surprising to me.
- hansthehorse 7y ago
  If the settlement was made "without admitting wrongdoing" it will be tax deductible. If it's a fine for breaking the law it isn't.

satya71 7y ago

The fine is also tax-deductible.

mey 7y ago
Do larger companies optimize when they pay fines to adjust their tax burden?
krustyburger 7y ago
Which is especially irksome because Alphabet pays such a low rate already.
- Naga 7y ago
  Taxes are assessed at a percentage of income. If a fine is deductible, you have lower income, and your taxes are lower, yes. But you paid the government for that right! If your tax rate is 30% and you pay a $1000 fine, you save $300 in taxes. But you paid $1000 for that right!
  - Ntrails 7y ago
    > If your tax rate is 30% and you pay a $1000 fine, you save $300 in taxes. But you paid $1000 for that right! What it actually means is that your effective net punishment/fine is $700, irrespective of the headline number. Which matters if the numbers are designed to be impactful.
    - erikpukinskis 7y ago
      You’re advocating for having three categories in corporate accounting instead of two: revenue, costs, and penalties? Ostensibly the courts would factor in tax benefits to their calculations for punitive damages, under the current system. I don’t believe there are any limits on what punitive damages can account for, beyond “make it hurt”. Not sure if this is a fine written into law though, which would not be able to easily account for tax differences.
      - bryanrasmussen 7y ago
        not being an accountant as I understand it in my country fines to the tax ministry are not tax deductible. So if this is the case in other countries there would be some legal precedence for saying "fines for this type of offense are not tax deductible"
      - throwaway_law 7y ago
        Its still just two categories revenue/costs. Not all costs are legitimate business expenses and tax deductible. Certainly, penalties that follow as a result of violations of law should not be tax deductible business expenses.
        tick_tock_tick 7y ago
        Every single cost is. The only thing corps are taxed on is profit if you pay a fine you made less profit there isn't some hidden bullshit.
        nothrabannosir 7y ago
- akavi 7y ago
  If Alphabet pays a low rate, then the benefit of a tax deduction's reduced, so I'm not sure I understand the "especially" here.
  - outside1234 7y ago
    Because it effectively still makes the fine lower?
  - FussyZeus 7y ago
    Because penalties for bad behavior shouldn't come out of your tax burden? I dunno if that's what GP meant but it's certainly horrendously unethical enough for me.
nvr219 7y ago
The tax-deduction is also cursed
llama052 7y ago
This irritates me more than it should, but again I'm not getting tax-deductions for speeding tickets or fines.
noname120 7y ago
Do you know where I could find more information about this? This is very surprising to me.
hansthehorse 7y ago
If the settlement was made "without admitting wrongdoing" it will be tax deductible. If it's a fine for breaking the law it isn't.