7 ms·

Can someone translate / explain this ?

by stuaxo 7y ago

oskarth 7y ago
五大訴求，缺一不可。 Five big demands, can’t do without any of them. 五 5 大 big 訴求 demands 缺一不可 fixed expression “none is dispensable” (缺 lack 一 one 不 no 可 can/possible) The five demand in question are the ones there is broad consensus on, see other threads.
anthony_doan 7y ago
Explanation part: The Hong Kong protestors have five demands. According to this subreddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czhs4q/the_five_demands_of_the_protest/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czhs4q/the_five_d...) the five demands are: 1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill 徹底撤回送中修例 2. A commission of inquiry into alleged police brutality 成立獨立調查委員會追究警隊濫暴 3. Retracting the classification of protesters as “rioters” 取消暴動定性 4. Amnesty for arrested protesters 撤銷對今為所有反送中抗爭者控罪 5. Dual universal suffrage, meaning for both the Legislative Council and the Chief Executive 以行政命令解散立法會立即實行雙真普選
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> Can someone translate / explain [five demands, not one less]? From the article: “Apart from the formal withdrawal of the legislation, the protesters have asked for the government to set up a commission of inquiry to investigate police conduct in tackling the protests, grant amnesty to those who have been arrested, stop characterising the protests as riots, and restart the city’s stalled political reform process.” All that said, this is just a slogan. Different protesters put weight on different elements of this menu. Each concession takes people off the street. Given how reasonable many of the demands are, it makes sense for someone to be an adult in the room to Xi’s pettiness.
- bjourne 7y ago
  What is the logic in demanding a general amnesty? There are lots of videos showing protesters rioting, throwing firebombs and the police and so on.
- ackbar03 7y ago
  Third and Fourth are ridiculous. I'm sorry but you don't set things on fire on the streets, bite people's finger off, throw petrol bombs, tie up people at the airport and say hey guys please grant amnesty, this wasn't a riot. Please grow up and take responsibility. If you choose to make those actions you take the consequences for them. Fifth, I can understand and dialogue can start and bickering in legislation, whatever, depending on definition this is achievable, but if you expect a democracy overnight then I have a strong urge to post a link to a music video. Hense, as per my comments below, demanding all five demands to be satisfied is not constructive and to some degree immature.
  - indymike 7y ago
    It is not an amnesty. It is a necessary condition for a return to peace. There is zero incentive to stop for the protesters if they are going to be jailed for protesting. The alternative is an ever escalating oppression-protest cycle.
    - poukofiru 7y ago
      The incentive is to avoid the PRC Army.
      - somebodythere 7y ago
        I believe this was covered by > The alternative is an ever escalating oppression-protest cycle. Anyway, I don't believe recreating June 4 is a wise move for PRC at this time. The whole world is watching.
  - nailer 7y ago
    You're correct, assault is assault and should be punished. Incidentally, most of the more intense violence I've witnessed has been from the HK police: a quick selection from the front page of https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz2dba/hong_kong_police_breaking_subdued_protesters/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz2dba/hong_kong_... - https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czgvb7/emily_lau_this_is_hong_kong_this_is_not_tiananmen/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czgvb7/emily_lau_... - https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz93rd/suspected_cervical_injury_a_young_guy_was_held/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz93rd/suspected_... - https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz797d/man_punches_reporter_in_the_facecops_dont_give_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz797d/man_punche... - https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz4fjm/why_continue_to_lie_again_and_again_when_theres/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz4fjm/why_contin... But categorizing 2 million people who participated in the protests (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48656471 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48656471) as rioters is ridiculous.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  The problem is that some of these demands are unrealistic and some are downright unreasonable. Full democracy is a legitimate demand but one that you need to be extremely optimistic, to say the least, to believe that the central government will agree to budge on. On the other hand, demands regarding rioting are unreasonable. There objectively has been rioting going on and no government will accept to send the message that it is acceptable to throw petrol bombs or to ransack government buildings, or to use violence in general. The only leeway in these cases is usually the penalty courts hand: Very heavy to send a message or relatively light to appease. If the economy suffers too much, there will be real internal pressure against protesters, especially against any violence. If the bill is indeed withdrawn it allows protesters to stop while claiming a victory. This does not mean giving up on broader democratic demands but allows them to catch their breath and ponder a long term strategy.
  - ajmurmann 7y ago
    > On the other hand, demands regarding rioting are unreasonable How else are you supposed to fight against a dictator for life in a system that's not a democracy?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - Aeolun 7y ago
      I think this example has been set by the UN time and time again now. You send them a strongly worded letter.
  - phkahler 7y ago
    Wait. You think wanting the government to change (democracy) is a legitimate demand, but wanting them to stop calling protests riots is unreasonable?
    - my_username_is_ 7y ago
      Not the person you're replying to, but in some ways it is. Part of Hong Kong Basic Law (their Constitution, which was adopted during the handover process) stipulates that "the ultimate aim" is elections by universal suffrage for both the Chief Executive as well as the Legislative Council. So the demand for universal suffrage is simply asking the government to make good on their promises from 1990/1997. One of the reasons that the extradition bill caused such an uproar in the city is that Hong Kong citizens are protected by rule of law in a way that doesn't exist in China. The law has clear definitions and punishment for rioting, and the actions of some protesters could very well fall into that category. So to ask for all rioting charges to be dropped is asking for the government to give in to mob rule. (Caveat—I don't think the rioting charge would be as big of a deal as it is if it didn't carry a 10 year prison sentence. But it's hard for the protesters to ask for anything less than blanket amnesty... Without looking at a specific case, where do you draw the line? What sort of punishment is reasonable?)
JackeJR 7y ago
it directly translates to "5 requests, not 1 is missable". What it means is that the 5 requests of the protestors are non-negotiable.
PavlovsCat 7y ago
1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill 2. A commission of inquiry into alleged police brutality 3. Retracting the classification of protesters as “rioters” 4. Amnesty for arrested protesters 5. Dual universal suffrage, meaning for both the Legislative Council and the Chief Executive from https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czhs4q/the_five_demands_of_the_protest/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czhs4q/the_five_d... Another thread discussing the demands, though I'm sure there's more on that sub: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cqnxh9/the_5_demands_and_the_main_power_of_the_protestors/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cqnxh9/the_5_dema...

Can someone translate / explain this ?

by stuaxo 7y ago

Can someone translate / explain this ?

五大訴求，缺一不可。 Five big demands, can’t do without any of them. 五 5 大 big 訴求 demands 缺一不可 fixed expression “none is dispensable” (缺 lack 一 one 不 no 可 can/possible) The five demand in question are the ones there is broad consensus on, see other threads.

anthony_doan 7y ago

Explanation part: The Hong Kong protestors have five demands. According to this subreddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czhs4q/the_five_demands_of_the_protest/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czhs4q/the_five_d...) the five demands are: 1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill 徹底撤回送中修例 2. A commission of inquiry into alleged police brutality 成立獨立調查委員會追究警隊濫暴 3. Retracting the classification of protesters as “rioters” 取消暴動定性 4. Amnesty for arrested protesters 撤銷對今為所有反送中抗爭者控罪 5. Dual universal suffrage, meaning for both the Legislative Council and the Chief Executive 以行政命令解散立法會立即實行雙真普選

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> Can someone translate / explain [five demands, not one less]? From the article: “Apart from the formal withdrawal of the legislation, the protesters have asked for the government to set up a commission of inquiry to investigate police conduct in tackling the protests, grant amnesty to those who have been arrested, stop characterising the protests as riots, and restart the city’s stalled political reform process.” All that said, this is just a slogan. Different protesters put weight on different elements of this menu. Each concession takes people off the street. Given how reasonable many of the demands are, it makes sense for someone to be an adult in the room to Xi’s pettiness.

bjourne 7y ago
What is the logic in demanding a general amnesty? There are lots of videos showing protesters rioting, throwing firebombs and the police and so on.
ackbar03 7y ago
Third and Fourth are ridiculous. I'm sorry but you don't set things on fire on the streets, bite people's finger off, throw petrol bombs, tie up people at the airport and say hey guys please grant amnesty, this wasn't a riot. Please grow up and take responsibility. If you choose to make those actions you take the consequences for them. Fifth, I can understand and dialogue can start and bickering in legislation, whatever, depending on definition this is achievable, but if you expect a democracy overnight then I have a strong urge to post a link to a music video. Hense, as per my comments below, demanding all five demands to be satisfied is not constructive and to some degree immature.
- indymike 7y ago
  It is not an amnesty. It is a necessary condition for a return to peace. There is zero incentive to stop for the protesters if they are going to be jailed for protesting. The alternative is an ever escalating oppression-protest cycle.
  - poukofiru 7y ago
    The incentive is to avoid the PRC Army.
    - somebodythere 7y ago
      I believe this was covered by > The alternative is an ever escalating oppression-protest cycle. Anyway, I don't believe recreating June 4 is a wise move for PRC at this time. The whole world is watching.
- nailer 7y ago
  You're correct, assault is assault and should be punished. Incidentally, most of the more intense violence I've witnessed has been from the HK police: a quick selection from the front page of https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz2dba/hong_kong_police_breaking_subdued_protesters/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz2dba/hong_kong_... - https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czgvb7/emily_lau_this_is_hong_kong_this_is_not_tiananmen/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czgvb7/emily_lau_... - https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz93rd/suspected_cervical_injury_a_young_guy_was_held/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz93rd/suspected_... - https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz797d/man_punches_reporter_in_the_facecops_dont_give_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz797d/man_punche... - https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz4fjm/why_continue_to_lie_again_and_again_when_theres/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cz4fjm/why_contin... But categorizing 2 million people who participated in the protests (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48656471 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48656471) as rioters is ridiculous.
mytailorisrich 7y ago
The problem is that some of these demands are unrealistic and some are downright unreasonable. Full democracy is a legitimate demand but one that you need to be extremely optimistic, to say the least, to believe that the central government will agree to budge on. On the other hand, demands regarding rioting are unreasonable. There objectively has been rioting going on and no government will accept to send the message that it is acceptable to throw petrol bombs or to ransack government buildings, or to use violence in general. The only leeway in these cases is usually the penalty courts hand: Very heavy to send a message or relatively light to appease. If the economy suffers too much, there will be real internal pressure against protesters, especially against any violence. If the bill is indeed withdrawn it allows protesters to stop while claiming a victory. This does not mean giving up on broader democratic demands but allows them to catch their breath and ponder a long term strategy.
- ajmurmann 7y ago
  > On the other hand, demands regarding rioting are unreasonable How else are you supposed to fight against a dictator for life in a system that's not a democracy?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - Aeolun 7y ago
    I think this example has been set by the UN time and time again now. You send them a strongly worded letter.
- phkahler 7y ago
  Wait. You think wanting the government to change (democracy) is a legitimate demand, but wanting them to stop calling protests riots is unreasonable?
  - my_username_is_ 7y ago
    Not the person you're replying to, but in some ways it is. Part of Hong Kong Basic Law (their Constitution, which was adopted during the handover process) stipulates that "the ultimate aim" is elections by universal suffrage for both the Chief Executive as well as the Legislative Council. So the demand for universal suffrage is simply asking the government to make good on their promises from 1990/1997. One of the reasons that the extradition bill caused such an uproar in the city is that Hong Kong citizens are protected by rule of law in a way that doesn't exist in China. The law has clear definitions and punishment for rioting, and the actions of some protesters could very well fall into that category. So to ask for all rioting charges to be dropped is asking for the government to give in to mob rule. (Caveat—I don't think the rioting charge would be as big of a deal as it is if it didn't carry a 10 year prison sentence. But it's hard for the protesters to ask for anything less than blanket amnesty... Without looking at a specific case, where do you draw the line? What sort of punishment is reasonable?)

JackeJR 7y ago

it directly translates to "5 requests, not 1 is missable". What it means is that the 5 requests of the protestors are non-negotiable.

PavlovsCat 7y ago

1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill 2. A commission of inquiry into alleged police brutality 3. Retracting the classification of protesters as “rioters” 4. Amnesty for arrested protesters 5. Dual universal suffrage, meaning for both the Legislative Council and the Chief Executive from https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czhs4q/the_five_demands_of_the_protest/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czhs4q/the_five_d... Another thread discussing the demands, though I'm sure there's more on that sub: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cqnxh9/the_5_demands_and_the_main_power_of_the_protestors/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cqnxh9/the_5_dema...