4 ms·

There are many serious issues around how Lyft/Uber (and many others) treat their "employees" and I'm happy if things are moving in a direction to help them out.

by d1zzy 7y ago

There are many serious issues around how Lyft/Uber (and many others) treat their "employees" and I'm happy if things are moving in a direction to help them out. However, as a customer, Lyft/Uber has been HUGELY better than any previous taxi experience, in the San Francisco Bay Area. Before Uber was a thing, I tried getting a taxi in the Bay Area at 3 different times. Months apart. Calling different companies (that I found by searching "Bay Area taxi"). In ALL cases there were issues, huge issues: * the first one I called said he'll be there in 20 minutes(!!) but 30 minutes later he didn't show nor called. I call back and someone else answers and says they'll be there in 20 minutes, ofc 30 minutes later nobody showed up... * the second time I needed a taxi I called, said they will be there in 30 minutes and never showed or answered any subsequent calls * third time I think someone DID show up, after about 30 minutes (15 minutes later than they said they will) Absolutely horrible, unacceptable experience. With Lyft/Uber I never had any such issues and I took many more rides with those. Not to mention it was much cheaper (the latter likely has something to do with the main complains being raised now by their employees). Look, I fully support cab riders to get a living wage, even if that means significantly increasing my fare, but I do hope the new legislation doesn't result in going back to the pre-Lyft/Uber taxi experience because that was just insanely bad. Also, at least some of the drivers I talked to were doing this as an aside so it makes total sense for them to be contractors (one guy was temporarily in the Bay Area doing some construction work so he was Uber-ing on the side for extra money) so that is another issue that needs to be considered in legislation to still enable this type of use case.

r00fus 7y ago
I don’t think we can really put the genie back into the bottle there. Uber and Lyft have proven that app-based hailing is what people want. The costs will go up though.
nraynaud 7y ago
I suspect it’s one of those case where things are bad because it made no economic sense to make them better, a bit like airplane boarding. In the case of taxis, replacing them by Uber and lyft made no sense globally, because it was just exploiting the drivers, and using venture capital in an unsustainable manner.
wswope 7y ago
Shortly after Uber and Lyft became popular, they were forced out of Austin due to a scuffle around local regulation. It took very little time for some new competitors to start up, one of which (RideAustin), is still thriving. The cost is almost exactly the same, but far more money goes to the drivers, and the drivers tend to be far higher quality. If memory serves me right, they even adopted some user-friendly features like a female-only driver setting first too. You can have your cake and eat it too: there's no real dichotomy between Uber/Lyft and the taxi companies.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  It's worth noting that the original scuffle was about fingerprinting drivers, a regulation that they already comply with in New York City. The difference is that Uber and Lyft won't leave one of their biggest markets.
  - caseysoftware 7y ago
    No, "fingerprinting" was the issue the City marketed. The actual scuffle was because the City of Austin wanted ride-level trip data and a larger fee from the individual rides. Further, Mayor Adler's goal was a tax+security screening system for anyone who wanted to transact online. Those are his words, not mine. Quoted in the post below. I detailed some of it here: https://medium.com/@CaseySoftware/mayor-steve-adler-is-scamming-the-austin-tech-community-399d12b976e9 https://medium.com/@CaseySoftware/mayor-steve-adler-is-scamm...
    - bobthepanda 7y ago
      Ride-level data and per-trip fees are also a requirement in New York City. In fact, now minimum wages are required in New York for TNC drivers. The point still stands, is that Uber has never, and would not ever, actually threaten to leave bigger markets. And the data isn't some evil hoovering scheme, but it is incredibly helpful with city planning: > Like camera-wearing meerkats, taxis provided insight into the city’s transportation ecosystem. Are cabs speeding along a certain stretch of street? Time to review the street design. Getting stuck at the same intersection every rush hour? Maybe rethink the traffic light timing. https://www.wired.com/story/nyc-uber-lyft-ride-hail-data/ https://www.wired.com/story/nyc-uber-lyft-ride-hail-data/
dreamcompiler 7y ago
Before Uber and Lyft cabs were terrible everywhere except maybe London and Tokyo. Competition was sorely needed in this industry. I hope the competition continues even if the prices go up.
- pmart123 7y ago
  London cabs were brutally expensive though. The minivan service was typically very good compared to other cities.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  Beijing, Shanghai, and a few their Chinese cities were decent enough, as were the few Indian cities I went to and Bangkok. Many smaller SE Asian cities were horrible though, with western tourists seen as prime targets for the local taxi mafia.
- williamDafoe 7y ago
  In Japan the cabs cost NOTHING, like Uber and Lyft when they have a sale; I spent the 2nd half of June in Japan and never exceeded $10 in fare.
uptown 7y ago
Anecdotal, but I've had less than great experiences with both Uber and Lyft. The most common issue if that a driver will accept you as passenger, then somewhere along the way, they cancel you, leaving you start waiting again for a new driver. Presumably they got a closer/better fare wherever they were driving from, but it sucks to be strung along 2 or 3 times like that while waiting for a ride home.
markdown 7y ago
I can barely remember my interaction with anyone I met yesterday. How do you remember three distinct taxi (and therefore trivial) encounters from years ago? Do you work for Uber, or do you just have an amazing memory?
- ImprovedSilence 7y ago
  uh... really? you should get that memory thing checked out. I too have absolutely terrible pre-uber experiences (in the DC area). If one was out drinking in DC, and needed a cab back across the river to VA, you had to hope the cabbie had the doors unlocked, because they couldn't refuse a fair once you got in and sat in the car, otherwise they'd just drive away if you told them where you were going. And it was "cash only". Which I later learned was a load of BS, when I had a $100+ fare for work, cabbie happily pulled out the old cc scanner complete with carbon paper... Things didn't get better until my roommate introduced me to his "driver". Which is was just a guy with a Town Car that I could call, tell him where I'm going and when, and if he was available, he'd quote me a price (there was no meter or anything). And then there was the stress of is the cabbie I called for going to show up in time to get me to the airport at 6am. Uber/Lyft crushed it for all these reasons, and if the prices need to rise a little, sure fine. The example of a new company in Austin doing it's own little Austin thing is fine, but the other huge benefit of Uber is it travel. If I get off a plane in Europe, NYC, SF, small po-dunk town, whatever, I've now got a very frictionless path to getting myself some transportation. Don't gotta look up the local cab company, don't gotta mess with the local mass transit, all my billing info is setup and ready to go. Makes me wonder if everyone seemingly hating on them or wishing them harm is too young to remember how shitty things were before. On the "employee" side, I do know a number of people who drive for either or both company, but they all do it on the side, fwiw.
  - williamDafoe 7y ago
    You can't get a Lyft to the airport At 4:15 am ($30 fare). Been there, failed that.
- mindways 7y ago
  I'd wager because strong emotion tends to result in strong memories, and waiting for a needed ride that isn't showing up is stressful, particularly if you have no insight into where the right might be or if/when it's arriving. I have memories of several times I was stood up or unreasonably delayed by bad taxi service / rideshare service, and the higher-stress ones (e.g., when I was trying to catch a plane) are the most vivid. One's from over a decade ago - I can't remember where I was going, but I remember the room I was in, pacing back and forth, calling the taxi dispatcher for the 3rd time.
Johnny555 7y ago
The other problem is that there are a dozen or more cab companies in SF, so sometimes you'd call a cab from one company and see empty cars from other companies drive by. So you have to make the choice between alienating the company you called by taking a competing cab, or waiting and hoping that your called cab shows up.

by d1zzy 7y ago

r00fus 7y ago

I don’t think we can really put the genie back into the bottle there. Uber and Lyft have proven that app-based hailing is what people want. The costs will go up though.

nraynaud 7y ago

I suspect it’s one of those case where things are bad because it made no economic sense to make them better, a bit like airplane boarding. In the case of taxis, replacing them by Uber and lyft made no sense globally, because it was just exploiting the drivers, and using venture capital in an unsustainable manner.

wswope 7y ago

Shortly after Uber and Lyft became popular, they were forced out of Austin due to a scuffle around local regulation. It took very little time for some new competitors to start up, one of which (RideAustin), is still thriving. The cost is almost exactly the same, but far more money goes to the drivers, and the drivers tend to be far higher quality. If memory serves me right, they even adopted some user-friendly features like a female-only driver setting first too. You can have your cake and eat it too: there's no real dichotomy between Uber/Lyft and the taxi companies.

bobthepanda 7y ago
It's worth noting that the original scuffle was about fingerprinting drivers, a regulation that they already comply with in New York City. The difference is that Uber and Lyft won't leave one of their biggest markets.
- caseysoftware 7y ago
  No, "fingerprinting" was the issue the City marketed. The actual scuffle was because the City of Austin wanted ride-level trip data and a larger fee from the individual rides. Further, Mayor Adler's goal was a tax+security screening system for anyone who wanted to transact online. Those are his words, not mine. Quoted in the post below. I detailed some of it here: https://medium.com/@CaseySoftware/mayor-steve-adler-is-scamming-the-austin-tech-community-399d12b976e9 https://medium.com/@CaseySoftware/mayor-steve-adler-is-scamm...
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    Ride-level data and per-trip fees are also a requirement in New York City. In fact, now minimum wages are required in New York for TNC drivers. The point still stands, is that Uber has never, and would not ever, actually threaten to leave bigger markets. And the data isn't some evil hoovering scheme, but it is incredibly helpful with city planning: > Like camera-wearing meerkats, taxis provided insight into the city’s transportation ecosystem. Are cabs speeding along a certain stretch of street? Time to review the street design. Getting stuck at the same intersection every rush hour? Maybe rethink the traffic light timing. https://www.wired.com/story/nyc-uber-lyft-ride-hail-data/ https://www.wired.com/story/nyc-uber-lyft-ride-hail-data/

dreamcompiler 7y ago

Before Uber and Lyft cabs were terrible everywhere except maybe London and Tokyo. Competition was sorely needed in this industry. I hope the competition continues even if the prices go up.

pmart123 7y ago
London cabs were brutally expensive though. The minivan service was typically very good compared to other cities.
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
Beijing, Shanghai, and a few their Chinese cities were decent enough, as were the few Indian cities I went to and Bangkok. Many smaller SE Asian cities were horrible though, with western tourists seen as prime targets for the local taxi mafia.
williamDafoe 7y ago
In Japan the cabs cost NOTHING, like Uber and Lyft when they have a sale; I spent the 2nd half of June in Japan and never exceeded $10 in fare.

uptown 7y ago

Anecdotal, but I've had less than great experiences with both Uber and Lyft. The most common issue if that a driver will accept you as passenger, then somewhere along the way, they cancel you, leaving you start waiting again for a new driver. Presumably they got a closer/better fare wherever they were driving from, but it sucks to be strung along 2 or 3 times like that while waiting for a ride home.

markdown 7y ago

I can barely remember my interaction with anyone I met yesterday. How do you remember three distinct taxi (and therefore trivial) encounters from years ago? Do you work for Uber, or do you just have an amazing memory?

ImprovedSilence 7y ago
uh... really? you should get that memory thing checked out. I too have absolutely terrible pre-uber experiences (in the DC area). If one was out drinking in DC, and needed a cab back across the river to VA, you had to hope the cabbie had the doors unlocked, because they couldn't refuse a fair once you got in and sat in the car, otherwise they'd just drive away if you told them where you were going. And it was "cash only". Which I later learned was a load of BS, when I had a $100+ fare for work, cabbie happily pulled out the old cc scanner complete with carbon paper... Things didn't get better until my roommate introduced me to his "driver". Which is was just a guy with a Town Car that I could call, tell him where I'm going and when, and if he was available, he'd quote me a price (there was no meter or anything). And then there was the stress of is the cabbie I called for going to show up in time to get me to the airport at 6am. Uber/Lyft crushed it for all these reasons, and if the prices need to rise a little, sure fine. The example of a new company in Austin doing it's own little Austin thing is fine, but the other huge benefit of Uber is it travel. If I get off a plane in Europe, NYC, SF, small po-dunk town, whatever, I've now got a very frictionless path to getting myself some transportation. Don't gotta look up the local cab company, don't gotta mess with the local mass transit, all my billing info is setup and ready to go. Makes me wonder if everyone seemingly hating on them or wishing them harm is too young to remember how shitty things were before. On the "employee" side, I do know a number of people who drive for either or both company, but they all do it on the side, fwiw.
- williamDafoe 7y ago
  You can't get a Lyft to the airport At 4:15 am ($30 fare). Been there, failed that.
mindways 7y ago
I'd wager because strong emotion tends to result in strong memories, and waiting for a needed ride that isn't showing up is stressful, particularly if you have no insight into where the right might be or if/when it's arriving. I have memories of several times I was stood up or unreasonably delayed by bad taxi service / rideshare service, and the higher-stress ones (e.g., when I was trying to catch a plane) are the most vivid. One's from over a decade ago - I can't remember where I was going, but I remember the room I was in, pacing back and forth, calling the taxi dispatcher for the 3rd time.

Johnny555 7y ago

The other problem is that there are a dozen or more cab companies in SF, so sometimes you'd call a cab from one company and see empty cars from other companies drive by. So you have to make the choice between alienating the company you called by taking a competing cab, or waiting and hoping that your called cab shows up.