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In reality, if the UK does not have a trade deal in place by the time it leaves the EU, it will still need to get one later and it will still contain the same r

In reality, if the UK does not have a trade deal in place by the time it leaves the EU, it will still need to get one later and it will still contain the same requirements on respecting existing commitments to the the Irish Border. And this also happens to be a condition of getting a US trade deal through. No Deal Brexit, is in fact, No Deal until utterly desperate for Any Deal. The idea that the UK could just not have to ever agree to a trade deal with the EU is the purest of fantasies, and the idea that leaving first and kicking the can down the road will strengthen the UK's negotiating position is almost as delusional.

nailer 7y ago
Conversely, the EU wishes to continue selling its goods to the UK - dairy, cars, prosecco, and everything else. This is a bilateral trade agreement. They want a deal. But if the UK can't walk away, the EU give us the worst deal possible as it is in the EU's interest to do so.
- kadoban 7y ago
  The EU can much more easily absorb the loss, and has more reason to care about the terms of the deal in terms of it matching the trade agreements with other partners of various levels. It also has more to lose if it gives the UK a sweetheart deal. Not a great bargaining position, really.
  - nailer 7y ago
    Indeed. Why weaken the UK's position any further by making the UK having to accept any deal?
faissaloo 7y ago
I see a very simple solution to the Irish Backstop: Give Ireland back.
- smacktoward 7y ago
  The hitch with that is that the Conservative government doesn't have a majority without the support of the Democratic Unionist Party of Northern Ireland, and the DUP's central, defining issue is that Northern Ireland is and should always remain part of the UK. So the government can't yield an inch on Ireland, because the minute they do the DUP will withdraw its support and the government will promptly collapse.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    They already collapsed (self-inflicted). Thanks to today's resignation and withdrawing the whip from all tonight's rebels, the government is now 20 votes short of a majority. Expect a vote for a general election tomorrow.
    - inflatableDodo 7y ago
      And don't be surprised if MPs vote against it.
      - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        Well if I were Labour lead, and seeing as the idiotic Fixed Term Parliament Act requires a super-majority to end a term early, I'd try and keep the impotent Johnson in office as long as possible. Three more years of a government unable to do anything should tear the Tories apart nicely, and perhaps see them unelectable for 30+ years. If they can't get a super-majority, I think they might be stuck with waiting until term, absurd and broken though that is. The Lib Dems weren't thinking at all when they pushed for fixed terms.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  To unify Northern Ireland with the Republic, I think there are a few people that have to be asked first. I mean, it would be somewhat in character for the UK to attempt to achieve that unilaterally and with no consultation, but I think that to try and just 'give it back' as a solution to Brexit is, while no doubt well intentioned, still representing a bit of a colonial point of view.

nailer 7y ago

Conversely, the EU wishes to continue selling its goods to the UK - dairy, cars, prosecco, and everything else. This is a bilateral trade agreement. They want a deal. But if the UK can't walk away, the EU give us the worst deal possible as it is in the EU's interest to do so.

kadoban 7y ago
The EU can much more easily absorb the loss, and has more reason to care about the terms of the deal in terms of it matching the trade agreements with other partners of various levels. It also has more to lose if it gives the UK a sweetheart deal. Not a great bargaining position, really.
- nailer 7y ago
  Indeed. Why weaken the UK's position any further by making the UK having to accept any deal?

faissaloo 7y ago

I see a very simple solution to the Irish Backstop: Give Ireland back.

smacktoward 7y ago
The hitch with that is that the Conservative government doesn't have a majority without the support of the Democratic Unionist Party of Northern Ireland, and the DUP's central, defining issue is that Northern Ireland is and should always remain part of the UK. So the government can't yield an inch on Ireland, because the minute they do the DUP will withdraw its support and the government will promptly collapse.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  They already collapsed (self-inflicted). Thanks to today's resignation and withdrawing the whip from all tonight's rebels, the government is now 20 votes short of a majority. Expect a vote for a general election tomorrow.
  - inflatableDodo 7y ago
    And don't be surprised if MPs vote against it.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      Well if I were Labour lead, and seeing as the idiotic Fixed Term Parliament Act requires a super-majority to end a term early, I'd try and keep the impotent Johnson in office as long as possible. Three more years of a government unable to do anything should tear the Tories apart nicely, and perhaps see them unelectable for 30+ years. If they can't get a super-majority, I think they might be stuck with waiting until term, absurd and broken though that is. The Lib Dems weren't thinking at all when they pushed for fixed terms.
inflatableDodo 7y ago
To unify Northern Ireland with the Republic, I think there are a few people that have to be asked first. I mean, it would be somewhat in character for the UK to attempt to achieve that unilaterally and with no consultation, but I think that to try and just 'give it back' as a solution to Brexit is, while no doubt well intentioned, still representing a bit of a colonial point of view.