5 ms·

Chromebooks have absolutely no place in the classrooms, I am dreading my kids entering what has become of this school system.

by quotha 7y ago

derefr 7y ago
Chromebooks specifically? What's the difference, if the point is just to get kids to interact with an online worksheet/test web-app; or to write a research report (a common reason a class period was spent in a computer lab ten years ago); or to just have their textbooks loaded onto them? For all of those activities, all you need is a web browser; it doesn't matter what it's running on. (Also, if you're clever, you can do things like finding a web-app that lets you use them as a substitute for those vote-clickers that some university lecturers use to gauge pre-lesson knowledgeability.)
- cliffy 7y ago
  Probably: Lock-in to Google's proprietary walled garden. Probably loaded with school spy-ware too. Unfortunately a lot of parents won't care, and the school system won't give them a choice either. However, it leads to shit like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School... The ideal is BYOD. If all you really need is a web browser, then let parents and kids decide what to use together. If you really give a shit about cheating use analog quizzes/tests. It's not perfect, but the old ways are easier to police.
  - derefr 7y ago
    > The ideal is BYOD. These aren't the student's devices; they're enterprise-MDM workstations that the kids happen to carry around. Think of them as a computer lab that the kids don't have to go to; not as Personal Computers per se. They're probably logged into them with a school-issued GSuite email rather than their personal Google Account, too, and told to not use these computers for non-school activity. (I'm not intimately familiar with the Chromebook education initiative, but if it's anything like Apple's initiative with iPads, then that's how it's set up.) And no, the school wouldn't ever be okay with not using Mobile Device Management; MDM is how they ensure that a classroom full of laptops all on a LAN together aren't spreading malware like the digital equivalent of a kindergarten in flu season; and how they ensure the devices don't get spyware installed onto them by someone else (some stranger; or someone's parents!) to steal kids' contact info and location details with the goal of kidnapping or worse. I'd actually think that BYOD would be worse in such a case, as you'd have to contaminate your personal device with an enterprise MDM profile in order to get it on the network. Better to just tell the kid that they can have a personal device, but they also have to have this school-managed device, and that they should think of them as separate things and not use one for the activities better suited to the other. (This also neatly solves the "school spy-ware" worry as well, because if the students are only doing school-work on their laptop and are just using their phones+ISP data plans to text/email/etc., then the school sees none of that.)
    - joezydeco 7y ago
      My district is using Google's edu initiative and it's pretty much precisely as you've described. They even filter email so kids can only mail inside the district's domain and can't accept outside email (although I've noticed I can share documents with my kids, which has come in handy).
geebee 7y ago
I'm a little disappointed with chromebooks as well. I was one of the kids who was a little disappointed when the first MacOS came out. Where was the command line? Where did I wrote code? The commodore64 did a lot more for kids who wanted to learn about computers, an affordable and highly hackable and programmable computer. I felt like the first Mac was a big step forward in terms of ease of use for the general consumer, but a step back from the AppleII in getting in there and really enjoying computing. Chromebooks put more, not less distance, between a kid and what I consider to be the interesting things about a computer. Think of it this way - google talks a lot about a critical skills shortage. Ok, so, would a kid who grows up using a Chromebook be more likely to develop these skills than a kid who uses a linux system, or Mac OS X? Or hell, even a windows system, at least it's relatively easy to get a bash shell working there. Nah, let's face it, the future of google's workforce is not going to be found among the the kids using google's educational products. Bet you google execs and high up engineers most definitely have their kids learning on something else, and they probably avoid too much exposure to any kind of electronics for a longer period of childhood than google pushes out there in the classroom.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  Indeed. And all of those frustrations people have using Windows computers end up teaching problem solving skills in a far more effective manner than anything you could put in a textbook.
  - filoleg 7y ago
    The thing is, it is a backwards way to look at things. Regular students shouldn't need to deal with frustrations of windows machines and learn all the skills needed to solve issues with OS just to perform their school-related tasks. I, personally, see the value in those skills, but for students who are not interested in it, it is just an unnecessary hassle and a source of frustration. It's like saying that having an easily repairable, but not that reliable or user-friendly, car is a good opportunity to learn problem-solving and basic vehicle maintenance skills. As someone not interested in that, I just want a reliable device that will drive me in comfort and convenience from point A to point B without making me worry about having to fix anything.
joezydeco 7y ago
My kids were in elementary school when the district transitioned from iPads to gApps for class projects. It was a definite plus. Kids could hop onto any machine that had a browser (even the older Win7 PCs) and continue to work. Does iOS even allow multiple logins or was that whole educational push a few years ago just FUD against Google? Doesn't matter, everyone has moved on anyway. The whole "OMG Chromebooks!" cry was drowned out when the cost savings was figured out, because the alternatives are $500 keyboardless iPads that can't be shared and monitorless $500 Dell PCs that can't be transported. The kids are now in secondary ed and use Docs/Slides/Classroom for their classwork. Remote collaboration is dead simple (again, more iCloud FUD from Apple), and nobody EVER forgets their classwork at school since it's always a login away.
NotSammyHagar 7y ago
I think the chromebooks are excellent if they are going to use computers, and they basically do everywhere. They don't have to worry about os upgrades, or virus, they are very safe for browsing. They work great with minimal resources. If the district wants to allow it, they can allow linux apps in a controlled safe way, supporting bash command line or whatever else they want to support.

Chromebooks have absolutely no place in the classrooms, I am dreading my kids entering what has become of this school system.

by quotha 7y ago

Chromebooks have absolutely no place in the classrooms, I am dreading my kids entering what has become of this school system.

derefr 7y ago

Chromebooks specifically? What's the difference, if the point is just to get kids to interact with an online worksheet/test web-app; or to write a research report (a common reason a class period was spent in a computer lab ten years ago); or to just have their textbooks loaded onto them? For all of those activities, all you need is a web browser; it doesn't matter what it's running on. (Also, if you're clever, you can do things like finding a web-app that lets you use them as a substitute for those vote-clickers that some university lecturers use to gauge pre-lesson knowledgeability.)

cliffy 7y ago
Probably: Lock-in to Google's proprietary walled garden. Probably loaded with school spy-ware too. Unfortunately a lot of parents won't care, and the school system won't give them a choice either. However, it leads to shit like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School... The ideal is BYOD. If all you really need is a web browser, then let parents and kids decide what to use together. If you really give a shit about cheating use analog quizzes/tests. It's not perfect, but the old ways are easier to police.
- derefr 7y ago
  > The ideal is BYOD. These aren't the student's devices; they're enterprise-MDM workstations that the kids happen to carry around. Think of them as a computer lab that the kids don't have to go to; not as Personal Computers per se. They're probably logged into them with a school-issued GSuite email rather than their personal Google Account, too, and told to not use these computers for non-school activity. (I'm not intimately familiar with the Chromebook education initiative, but if it's anything like Apple's initiative with iPads, then that's how it's set up.) And no, the school wouldn't ever be okay with not using Mobile Device Management; MDM is how they ensure that a classroom full of laptops all on a LAN together aren't spreading malware like the digital equivalent of a kindergarten in flu season; and how they ensure the devices don't get spyware installed onto them by someone else (some stranger; or someone's parents!) to steal kids' contact info and location details with the goal of kidnapping or worse. I'd actually think that BYOD would be worse in such a case, as you'd have to contaminate your personal device with an enterprise MDM profile in order to get it on the network. Better to just tell the kid that they can have a personal device, but they also have to have this school-managed device, and that they should think of them as separate things and not use one for the activities better suited to the other. (This also neatly solves the "school spy-ware" worry as well, because if the students are only doing school-work on their laptop and are just using their phones+ISP data plans to text/email/etc., then the school sees none of that.)
  - joezydeco 7y ago
    My district is using Google's edu initiative and it's pretty much precisely as you've described. They even filter email so kids can only mail inside the district's domain and can't accept outside email (although I've noticed I can share documents with my kids, which has come in handy).

geebee 7y ago

I'm a little disappointed with chromebooks as well. I was one of the kids who was a little disappointed when the first MacOS came out. Where was the command line? Where did I wrote code? The commodore64 did a lot more for kids who wanted to learn about computers, an affordable and highly hackable and programmable computer. I felt like the first Mac was a big step forward in terms of ease of use for the general consumer, but a step back from the AppleII in getting in there and really enjoying computing. Chromebooks put more, not less distance, between a kid and what I consider to be the interesting things about a computer. Think of it this way - google talks a lot about a critical skills shortage. Ok, so, would a kid who grows up using a Chromebook be more likely to develop these skills than a kid who uses a linux system, or Mac OS X? Or hell, even a windows system, at least it's relatively easy to get a bash shell working there. Nah, let's face it, the future of google's workforce is not going to be found among the the kids using google's educational products. Bet you google execs and high up engineers most definitely have their kids learning on something else, and they probably avoid too much exposure to any kind of electronics for a longer period of childhood than google pushes out there in the classroom.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
Indeed. And all of those frustrations people have using Windows computers end up teaching problem solving skills in a far more effective manner than anything you could put in a textbook.
- filoleg 7y ago
  The thing is, it is a backwards way to look at things. Regular students shouldn't need to deal with frustrations of windows machines and learn all the skills needed to solve issues with OS just to perform their school-related tasks. I, personally, see the value in those skills, but for students who are not interested in it, it is just an unnecessary hassle and a source of frustration. It's like saying that having an easily repairable, but not that reliable or user-friendly, car is a good opportunity to learn problem-solving and basic vehicle maintenance skills. As someone not interested in that, I just want a reliable device that will drive me in comfort and convenience from point A to point B without making me worry about having to fix anything.

joezydeco 7y ago

My kids were in elementary school when the district transitioned from iPads to gApps for class projects. It was a definite plus. Kids could hop onto any machine that had a browser (even the older Win7 PCs) and continue to work. Does iOS even allow multiple logins or was that whole educational push a few years ago just FUD against Google? Doesn't matter, everyone has moved on anyway. The whole "OMG Chromebooks!" cry was drowned out when the cost savings was figured out, because the alternatives are $500 keyboardless iPads that can't be shared and monitorless $500 Dell PCs that can't be transported. The kids are now in secondary ed and use Docs/Slides/Classroom for their classwork. Remote collaboration is dead simple (again, more iCloud FUD from Apple), and nobody EVER forgets their classwork at school since it's always a login away.

NotSammyHagar 7y ago

I think the chromebooks are excellent if they are going to use computers, and they basically do everywhere. They don't have to worry about os upgrades, or virus, they are very safe for browsing. They work great with minimal resources. If the district wants to allow it, they can allow linux apps in a controlled safe way, supporting bash command line or whatever else they want to support.