4 ms·

No fuel gauge, has dipstick in the tank. Tank is up front. Manual window washer pump. Wipers normal resting position is part the way up, obscuring view out t

No fuel gauge, has dipstick in the tank. Tank is up front. Manual window washer pump. Wipers normal resting position is part the way up, obscuring view out the windscreen. 500 cc two stroke motor, later upgraded to 600cc Indicators don't cancel when the steering wheel returns to centre. Apparently there's still about 34,000 of them registered in Germany. ---- It hadn't occurred to me that early cars might have used two stroke engines. That would have made for some fairly disgusting city air.

pedrocr 7y ago
You can still buy cars with two stroke engines today. In Europe they're these mini cars sold to teenagers and old people because they don't require a full driving license.
- detaro 7y ago
  I suspect even there two-stroke is getting rare, as it is in motorbikes. E.g. I think here in Germany it's basically impossible to get a new model of two-stroke vehicle licensed.
  - pedrocr 7y ago
    I'm thinking of these things: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classification) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_clas... With a limitation of 50cc capacity a four-stroke may be hard. But they should all be replaced by the electric subclass very easily these days.
    - C1sc0cat 7y ago
      It still not quite there yet for all uses of a 50cc and its quite a bit more expensive eg the Vespa Electrica
  - phillc73 7y ago
    Two-stroke engines don't have to be environmentally a poorer choice than four-stoke engines. Evinrude's e-tec two-stroke outboard engines are quite popular and have received awards for low emission levels.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evinrude_Outboard_Motors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evinrude_Outboard_Motors
    - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
      I wasn't aware of this: With direct fuel injection and a sump-based lubrication system, a two-stroke engine produces air pollution no worse than a four-stroke, and it can achieve higher thermodynamic efficiency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_engine#Applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_engine#Applications
  - C1sc0cat 7y ago
    That's what I thought, you have not been able to buy a traditional two stroke scooter in the EU for several years now
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  Interesting. I've tried a few searches and haven't found anything. Are you able to provide more information to refine my search, or do you know the names of any of these cars?
  - ahje 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classification) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classi...
  - ptaipale 7y ago
    The microcars over here in Finland are often brands Aixam or Ligier or, well, Microcar. These are French manufacturers. Top speed is limited to 45 km/h, and they are smaller than Trabant, but otherwise they resemble it in many respects. They cost as much as small real cars, and are vastly poorer in practically all respects (serviceability, fuel consumption, driveability, equipment, collision safety). Finnish government plans to enable "normal" cars to be equipped with speed limiters to 60 km/h so that a 16-year-old with a minicar license can drive them. EU is not happy.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
      Thank you.
raxxorrax 7y ago
> That would have made for some fairly disgusting city air. Indeed. You can smell one of them for miles. Some say they like it but on the other hand some people sniff adhesives.
- jwr 7y ago
  Also, you can see a trail of white smoke behind the car: fumes from the burned oil are white. [For the uninitiated: 2-stroke engines require adding oil to fuel, as there is no separate oil chamber, so when you fill up the tank, you need to add a pre-determined amount of oil]
  - bigiain 7y ago
    I dunno about Trabants, but one of my motorcycles is a two stroke (a Cagiva Mito) and except when it's cold and on the choke, you definitely can't see any smoke coming out it's exhaust. It's certainly burning the oil, it goes through about 1 litre of oil every 1000km or so. It runs an oil pump, so there's a separate tank for fuel and oil, and the pump mixes them before the carburetor.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    This isn't strictly true. As was pointed out to me elsewhere here today, Evinrude use a point-oiling system[1] that, combined with direct injection, results in air pollution no worse than a four-stroke, and it can achieve higher thermodynamic efficiency.[2] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evinrude_Outboard_Motors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evinrude_Outboard_Motors 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_engine#Emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_engine#Emissions
  - whenchamenia 7y ago
    I have a few 2 stroke bikes. Neither smoke while running, but the race engine can ocassionally burp a bit with rapid throttle changes. The stock 1970s engine does not even smoke on startup. I usually replace the auto-oilers with premix for reliability. If an oil-injection system fails, signifigant engine wear occurs.
- 7y ago

pedrocr 7y ago

You can still buy cars with two stroke engines today. In Europe they're these mini cars sold to teenagers and old people because they don't require a full driving license.

detaro 7y ago
I suspect even there two-stroke is getting rare, as it is in motorbikes. E.g. I think here in Germany it's basically impossible to get a new model of two-stroke vehicle licensed.
- pedrocr 7y ago
  I'm thinking of these things: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classification) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_clas... With a limitation of 50cc capacity a four-stroke may be hard. But they should all be replaced by the electric subclass very easily these days.
  - C1sc0cat 7y ago
    It still not quite there yet for all uses of a 50cc and its quite a bit more expensive eg the Vespa Electrica
- phillc73 7y ago
  Two-stroke engines don't have to be environmentally a poorer choice than four-stoke engines. Evinrude's e-tec two-stroke outboard engines are quite popular and have received awards for low emission levels.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evinrude_Outboard_Motors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evinrude_Outboard_Motors
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    I wasn't aware of this: With direct fuel injection and a sump-based lubrication system, a two-stroke engine produces air pollution no worse than a four-stroke, and it can achieve higher thermodynamic efficiency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_engine#Applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_engine#Applications
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  That's what I thought, you have not been able to buy a traditional two stroke scooter in the EU for several years now
TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
Interesting. I've tried a few searches and haven't found anything. Are you able to provide more information to refine my search, or do you know the names of any of these cars?
- ahje 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classification) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classi...
- ptaipale 7y ago
  The microcars over here in Finland are often brands Aixam or Ligier or, well, Microcar. These are French manufacturers. Top speed is limited to 45 km/h, and they are smaller than Trabant, but otherwise they resemble it in many respects. They cost as much as small real cars, and are vastly poorer in practically all respects (serviceability, fuel consumption, driveability, equipment, collision safety). Finnish government plans to enable "normal" cars to be equipped with speed limiters to 60 km/h so that a 16-year-old with a minicar license can drive them. EU is not happy.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    Thank you.

raxxorrax 7y ago

> That would have made for some fairly disgusting city air. Indeed. You can smell one of them for miles. Some say they like it but on the other hand some people sniff adhesives.

jwr 7y ago
Also, you can see a trail of white smoke behind the car: fumes from the burned oil are white. [For the uninitiated: 2-stroke engines require adding oil to fuel, as there is no separate oil chamber, so when you fill up the tank, you need to add a pre-determined amount of oil]
- bigiain 7y ago
  I dunno about Trabants, but one of my motorcycles is a two stroke (a Cagiva Mito) and except when it's cold and on the choke, you definitely can't see any smoke coming out it's exhaust. It's certainly burning the oil, it goes through about 1 litre of oil every 1000km or so. It runs an oil pump, so there's a separate tank for fuel and oil, and the pump mixes them before the carburetor.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  This isn't strictly true. As was pointed out to me elsewhere here today, Evinrude use a point-oiling system[1] that, combined with direct injection, results in air pollution no worse than a four-stroke, and it can achieve higher thermodynamic efficiency.[2] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evinrude_Outboard_Motors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evinrude_Outboard_Motors 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_engine#Emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_engine#Emissions
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  I have a few 2 stroke bikes. Neither smoke while running, but the race engine can ocassionally burp a bit with rapid throttle changes. The stock 1970s engine does not even smoke on startup. I usually replace the auto-oilers with premix for reliability. If an oil-injection system fails, signifigant engine wear occurs.
7y ago