7 ms·
The other interesting question to consider is: how long do consumers want to run the same fridge? How likely is the fridge to be damaged in some other way that
by secabeen 7y ago
The other interesting question to consider is: how long do consumers want to run the same fridge? How likely is the fridge to be damaged in some other way that causes the extra life of the 50-year fan to be wasted away in a refuse dump or recycling center? There's a balancing act to do, between too short a lifetime, wherein the customer is not ready to replace the fridge yet when it dies, and too long a lifetime, where resources are spent to make something last a long time, and it gets thrown away anyways. The original video didn't estimate a lifetime for that motor, but I would expect about 15 years is a standard lifetime for that motor, and that about fits with people wanting to replace their fridge at about every 15 years. Sure, some will go to 20 years, and others will fail at 10, but putting a 50 year motor in a fridge is a form of waste. (There's also the angle of increasing efficiency, that also pushes towards a more frequent replacement cycle than 50+ years)
- DaiPlusPlus 7y agoConsidering that fridges today have built-in 24” touchscreen displays running Android and cavity cameras so you can see inside your fridge when you’re at the supermarket - the useful life of a fridge is probably on the order of 1-2 years before Google obsoletes the firmware and Samsung shuts-down the video feed relay service.
- nkozyra 7y agoI've messed with these in stores and just been blown away at what a useless feature this is. Ah, yes, an appliance running Android Cupcake what a fabulous idea. It's clear that some items have hit peak functionality and manufacturers are just bolting on nonsense to keep up the facade of "luxury." But I'm sorry, running Spotify on my fridge is hokey, gauche and entirely unnecessary.
- eclipxe 7y agoThat’s the point.
- nkozyra 7y agoThe problem is they've just run out of ideas. Just being gauche and gaudy isn't enough to qualify; typically there's either enhanced utility or extravagance and an old-ass version of Android running on my fridge is neither.
- pkulak 7y agoSame with cars now too. What's the point of a leather dashboard and doors? How could that possibly be better than plastic? Or ambient lighting? Or heated arm rests?
- wallace_f 7y agoBuying status. Related: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good
- DaiPlusPlus 7y ago> What's the point of a leather dashboard and doors? Aesthetics, then passenger comfort. It's certainly a _nicer_ feeling when you rest your hand on quality materials in the passenger cabin. That said, I drive a Tesla Model X with the all-white interior - Tesla is famously vegan - so it's all pleather - and it made me a pleather convert (it's just unfortunate most pleathers you see are cheap and nasty and wear-down too quickly). > ambient lighting That's not a luxury feature - some form of ambient lighting is standard in every car I've been in. It's essential to help you navigate the passenger cabin in the dark without turning on the dome-light which can dazzle or distract the driver, such as seeing where the glovebox is or other controls. > Or heated arm rests? Same reason we have heated-seats and heated steering wheels: passenger comfort in cold weather. Also useful for people with poor circulation where being stationary (in a car seat) gets really uncomfortable.
- pkulak 7y agoWho rests their hands on the dash? And I don't mean normal interior lighting, I mean the kind that is light piping all over the dash and doors that can be set to any color of the rainbow.
- x0x0 7y agoLeather is easier to clean. You'll regret cloth everywhere if you have have dogs that ride in the car, kids, or you enjoy getting dirty. Leather wipes clean.
- 7y ago
- tobr 7y agoI wanted to buy a new microwave oven recently. Every single model I could find committed at least two of the following crimes: - Loud, ear piercing beeps on every opportunity. Why would anyone need to hear a beep every time they press a button? Imagine if an iPad did that. - Speaking of buttons: over-complicated controls, for something that should be two dials and one button - Ugly, spaceship like industrial design that has no place in a home - Inner surfaces with holes and protrusions that would be difficult to clean - Bright glowing green or blue LEDs that are always on, contributing to indoors light pollution There were a few expensive models that were less terrible (red lights, softer beeps (still beeps, mind you!), OK controls) but they were all too big to fit in my kitchen. My conclusion is that these manufacturers have no clue and no culture to figure out what a “luxury” product would look like today. They still think people find LED screens, chromed plastic and digital buttons impressive.
- NIL8 7y agoThese are all things that drive me crazy! Minimizing and simplifying would be easy and save these companies heaps of money. I hope somebody will fix these things soon. Then, they can move on to fixing the clicking mouse.
- spditner 7y agoRegarding the piercing beeps - I popped open the case on mine and put a piece of tape over the piezo buzzer speaker, which brought the volume down to just the right level.
- tobr 7y agoI’ve had the same thought, but dismantling a microwave radiation emitter doesn’t seem like a bright idea unless you know what you’re doing.
- throwawaycanada 7y agoYou can usually turn off the beeps.
- cr0sh 7y ago
- wil421 7y agoI went Fridge shopping yesterday at Home Depot and only 2 out of the 20 models we looked at had Touchscreens.
- reaperducer 7y agoat Home Depot You just answered your own question right there.
- wil421 7y agoIf I look at Best Buy and Lowe’s it’s pretty much the same. Samsung and LG have more useless features than any of the others combined.
- maxerickson 7y agoCan you explain? They aren't a discount retailer or anything like that, which you seem to be implying.
- amalter 7y agoAnother sample point and a different concern... We just bought a new refrigerator this weekend, replacing the $3500 2011 Bosch that came with the apartment. The Bosch burned out the compressor’s ECU - a $350 part that with labor would have been an $800 repair. We comparison shopped all the appliance stores in NYC and ended up with a $2k Samsung side by side (not my favorite brand, but it fit in our tight galley kitchen) PC Richard had only a single model with a touchscreen on the floor (Samsung French door). Best Buy and Home Depot had maybe one more from LG. So on one hand, the concern that every refrigerator will have a useless touchscreen seems unfounded. But... I was reading through the manual and was surprised to find instructions for connecting the appliance to my wifi. (MAC address available two hex digits at a time flashed through the temperature gauges) Ostensibly this is to provide a channel for electric demand response (they even documented the api). It also connects up with Samsung’s SmartHome ecosystem (why??) I have no doubt there is a full Android stack hidden what appeared to be a normal “dumb appliance”. These hidden smart appliances are going to be great attack surfaces. I’m sure soon enough they’ll automate the wifi connection by making a back channel the nearest lightbulb or something. Of course who’s following CVEs on their mesh connected toaster?
- cr0sh 7y agoHeh - I should do something like that for my cheap home fridge: 1. JB weld some magnets to the back of a cheap Android tablet and stick it on the front. 2. Build a small RasPi Zero W cam with an LED light, running MotionEyeOS, pipe it's feed out to the internet... $60.00 later and some sweat equity - I could have the same setup, and not have to worry about it going "obsolete"...
- dsfyu404ed 7y agoA fridge is overhead to most people. It's not worth more than the bare minimum in terms of resource allocation (money, time, attention). It's like a sink or toilet or some other home fixture. As long as it works most people will keep using it unless the cost of replacement is so low that you can do it on little more than a whim. The only time people replace them is when they break or if you're high class you replace it when you renovate the room because keeping it would "look dated" or some such.
- TeMPOraL 7y agoAppliances don't magically disappear when they're replaced. When your "built to last five+ decades" fridge hits 15 and you want a newer model, you can sell or give it to someone else, who'll pull another 15 years out of it. There's plenty of people who don't care or can't afford to care about their appliances being in mint condition. As long as the fridge still cools, they'll take it. And after something finally dies, that fridge could still be taken apart and used to repair other models. As for the increasing efficiency angle, I'm not buying it. I have a strong feeling that all efficiency gains are eaten by manufacturing. E.g. imagine you replace a fridge every 5 years, and each one is 2x as efficient as the previous one. I can't imagine how this uses less energy than running the first (least efficient) fridge for 15 years, once you account for the energy costs of designing, making and shipping the two newer fridges.
- Scoundreller 7y ago> As for the increasing efficiency angle, I'm not buying it. It used to be true(r). As you keep halving electricity consumption with each generation of products, eventually it isn't worth replacing just to save electricity, even if the new appliance is cheaper than the previous generation. The problem with fridges is... they're almost all used 24/7. Re-using old inefficient devices is fine/encourage-worthy in low-duty cycle applications, but there's just a lot less usage variability with fridges.
- crankylinuxuser 7y agoYeah but you trade a few watts for a pile of electronics with custom Asics, and "no user serviceable parts inside". And then combine that with a board 1/2 the cost of a new device. Software and smarts SUCK on things that should be boring and reliable. Worse yet, this is also directly related to the climate catastrophe issue. What would our world look like if we maximized for durability and repair? I'll give you all a hint: we maximized for cost. And vehicle, appliance, junkyards, and trash dumps show it. It's high time we make these companies with "manufactured limited reliability" to pay directly.
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoFridges have a need to be cool 24/7, but not run 24/7. It's quite remarkable how sparsely insulated they are compared to 1980s kit. It's very clear that insulation depth has undergone the same transition to "as little as we can get away with" as shown with the motor in the video. Efficiency gains have come from better compressors, and to a lesser extent increasing use of built in drawers and compartments, to stop all the cold pouring out the moment you open the door. Were they still insulated well, particularly as we have better materials to choose from, running costs could be reduced far more... The real aim of modern appliance production seems to be to sell you the extended warranty/service contract.
- Spooky23 7y agoThese companies do predictive reliability engineering that targets 5-7 years. That aligns with how long people own homes and their liability for repairs. There’s no waste associated with putting an electric motor in a durable good that would potentially last 25-50 years. If that were the engineering goal, they would be able to achieve it while adding a very marginal cost to the bom. The goal is to produce consistent, known failure rates that maximize revenue for new sales and high margin service plans. The appliance maker does not pay for disposal, recycling or any other indirect cost that isn’t imposed by regulatory requirements.
- dzhiurgis 7y ago> marginal cost to the bom and far from marginal cost to engineering
- Spooky23 7y agoSpending money to make things break isn’t free either.
- kube-system 7y ago> There’s no waste associated with putting an electric motor in a durable good that would potentially last 25-50 years. If that were the engineering goal, they would be able to achieve it while adding a very marginal cost to the bom. Now, when you don’t stop at just the condenser motor, and apply that line of reasoning to every part on the BOM, your appliance now costs double the competition. You can buy these appliances today, they’re designed for commercial use.