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I see people throwing ideas and most of these ideas rely on politicians and/or govt doing something. Is there a non govt or non politician dependent way of sol

I see people throwing ideas and most of these ideas rely on politicians and/or govt doing something. Is there a non govt or non politician dependent way of solving inequality? facebook connected the world not govt or politicians. Google made knowledge and information available to the whole world not a politician or a govt. (I understand there are down sides to these companies products but so is there to govts/politicians) Even as a thought experiment I would like to see some ideas here to solve inequality in way that just keeps the politician and govt out of it (cos all they do is make the common people foolishly quarrel against each other while they retain power and do what they think is right)

seanmcdirmid 7y ago
A political solution that doesn’t involve politicians or the government will just create its own politicians and government to sustain it. Look what happened during the American and French revolutions, or the Russian revolution. It always starts out as “we don’t need that” and in the end you simply recreate that.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  Of all things there’s even a Family Guy episode about just that. They abolish the town government in a tea party/libertarian bid and just end up re-implementing everything to attain some modicum of order, agreement, and convenience for everyone.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  See also: Bitcoin
  - tim333 7y ago
    Bitcoin seems a tool for increasing inequality rather than the other way around.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      I’m referring to the way the Bitcoin world has had a crash course in why the modern financial system has the moving parts it does. Like centralized exchanges.
- xkcd-sucks 7y ago
  Recreate stuff with similar features, but some differences -- At least they're new and easier to change than the old ones. Maybe these institutions have a finite useful lifespan and need to be put out of our misey when they outlive it
Iv 7y ago
> Is there a non govt or non politician dependent way of solving inequality? The guillotine? No, I mean seriously, if you rule out the political process, you just leave violence as a way to change things. It is to prevent that that government and then democracy were invented. If you consider this process broken, you are screwed and need to revolt. Concentration of wealth is a well-known and well-accepted side effect of market economies. This is supposed to be offset by income taxes and wealth taxes. The economics does not have incentive laid out to smoothen inequalities. If you rule out the political process, what do you have left?
opportune 7y ago
The legal and police system that protects wealthy people's private property rights is already the government doing something
DoreenMichele 7y ago
Is there a non govt or non politician dependent way of solving inequality? My background is as a homeschooling mom of twice exceptional kids. I'm also twice exceptional. I think the rise in inequality is partly due to higher survival rates of people with, for example, incurable genetic disorders and other serious problems. We also have a lot of people surviving serious health crises that would have simply killed them in a previous era, but it means they are now permanently impaired and less productive. Personal handicaps are a significant risk factor for homelessness. Being homeless typically means you are among the poorest of the poor, so it works well as a proxy for factors impacting extreme inequality. I run a number of websites trying to address such issues. I'm also involved to done degree with local non profits. I think it can be done, but, like anything, "ideas are cheap, implementation is hard." (Or whatever that saying is on HN about how ideas alone don't make for successful startups.)
novok 7y ago
Most large organizations, governmental or not, start gaining many of the same issues of governments. I really feel a lot of the issues people have with government is really the issues people have with large organizations and misaligned incentives playing out. 'Scaling large organizations' is a hard problem.
michaelmrose 7y ago
Making a Facebook post or a YouTube video on the topic of inequality inherently does nothing no matter how many likes you get. This is actually a trap in fact because it saps your energy without accomplishing anything. It's like a banquette of delicious food laid out which provides no nutrition so that fools gorge themselves while starving to death. Their bodies stinking and rotting on the periphery of the feast. If you think the existing politicians are worthless then your Facebook post should be about replacing them with ones that are worth something. Our political process is the only way we set the ground rules for this game and if someone else sets the rules you can't win if they don't want to let you. You have already given up the only actual power you have. Take it back.
idrios 7y ago
I know that what you're going for is to solve inequality by working within the means of the established political system, and that you're wondering if there could be something like a startup or company that somehow makes a profit by reducing inequality. After all, when starting a company the first problem anyone should solve is "What is the need" and economic inequality is a pretty big need. Unfortunately, I just don't think every problem can be solved through that lens. Companies can earn money by creating something of value, or by making something cheaper. Facebook connecting the world together was creating new value, and Google making information easily/freely available was a drastic reduction in the cost of discovering information. Both of those services created value. The problem of economic inequality is not a problem of needing more value, it's a problem of poor distribution of value. That's a problem companies are not good at solving. Companies are usually terrible at solving those problems. The other side I see you going for is that the government seems unreliable, so you'd rather there was a solution -- ideally one that's scalable -- that didn't rely on forces outside of your control. My best guess would be volunteer work and activism, which doesn't have to go through the government. Supporting local businesses and encouraging your neighbors to do so helps your local economy. Food banks and homeless shelters are great, and so are public libraries. Big brother/sister programs, little league sports coaching, volunteering at after school programs -- all good ways to help.
- ListeningPie 7y ago
  Solving inequality with a profit generating business would change drastically change our society. The closest example I can think of is Kiva. They provide micro loans for new businesses that cannot access traditional banking services. For us the lender, it is temporary charity as we get no interest, but Kiva field agents collect interest.
closeparen 7y ago
Convince smart and capable people to avoid creating value. A really good entertainment technology or recreational drug could help. Propagate cultural norms against trying too hard/selling out. There are probably some ed-tech startup ideas that would gain adoption by playing well to cultural biases while making children less likely to succeed. You could also try to make capital markets skittish and reduce investment in productive enterprises by engineering a crash or perpetrating many large scale, hard-to-detect frauds. Inequality is produced by engines of value creation whose fruits accrue more to some than others. The simplest way to reduce it is to break them.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

A political solution that doesn’t involve politicians or the government will just create its own politicians and government to sustain it. Look what happened during the American and French revolutions, or the Russian revolution. It always starts out as “we don’t need that” and in the end you simply recreate that.

52-6F-62 7y ago
Of all things there’s even a Family Guy episode about just that. They abolish the town government in a tea party/libertarian bid and just end up re-implementing everything to attain some modicum of order, agreement, and convenience for everyone.
ceejayoz 7y ago
See also: Bitcoin
- tim333 7y ago
  Bitcoin seems a tool for increasing inequality rather than the other way around.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    I’m referring to the way the Bitcoin world has had a crash course in why the modern financial system has the moving parts it does. Like centralized exchanges.
xkcd-sucks 7y ago
Recreate stuff with similar features, but some differences -- At least they're new and easier to change than the old ones. Maybe these institutions have a finite useful lifespan and need to be put out of our misey when they outlive it

Iv 7y ago

> Is there a non govt or non politician dependent way of solving inequality? The guillotine? No, I mean seriously, if you rule out the political process, you just leave violence as a way to change things. It is to prevent that that government and then democracy were invented. If you consider this process broken, you are screwed and need to revolt. Concentration of wealth is a well-known and well-accepted side effect of market economies. This is supposed to be offset by income taxes and wealth taxes. The economics does not have incentive laid out to smoothen inequalities. If you rule out the political process, what do you have left?

opportune 7y ago

The legal and police system that protects wealthy people's private property rights is already the government doing something

DoreenMichele 7y ago

Is there a non govt or non politician dependent way of solving inequality? My background is as a homeschooling mom of twice exceptional kids. I'm also twice exceptional. I think the rise in inequality is partly due to higher survival rates of people with, for example, incurable genetic disorders and other serious problems. We also have a lot of people surviving serious health crises that would have simply killed them in a previous era, but it means they are now permanently impaired and less productive. Personal handicaps are a significant risk factor for homelessness. Being homeless typically means you are among the poorest of the poor, so it works well as a proxy for factors impacting extreme inequality. I run a number of websites trying to address such issues. I'm also involved to done degree with local non profits. I think it can be done, but, like anything, "ideas are cheap, implementation is hard." (Or whatever that saying is on HN about how ideas alone don't make for successful startups.)

novok 7y ago

Most large organizations, governmental or not, start gaining many of the same issues of governments. I really feel a lot of the issues people have with government is really the issues people have with large organizations and misaligned incentives playing out. 'Scaling large organizations' is a hard problem.

michaelmrose 7y ago

Making a Facebook post or a YouTube video on the topic of inequality inherently does nothing no matter how many likes you get. This is actually a trap in fact because it saps your energy without accomplishing anything. It's like a banquette of delicious food laid out which provides no nutrition so that fools gorge themselves while starving to death. Their bodies stinking and rotting on the periphery of the feast. If you think the existing politicians are worthless then your Facebook post should be about replacing them with ones that are worth something. Our political process is the only way we set the ground rules for this game and if someone else sets the rules you can't win if they don't want to let you. You have already given up the only actual power you have. Take it back.

idrios 7y ago

I know that what you're going for is to solve inequality by working within the means of the established political system, and that you're wondering if there could be something like a startup or company that somehow makes a profit by reducing inequality. After all, when starting a company the first problem anyone should solve is "What is the need" and economic inequality is a pretty big need. Unfortunately, I just don't think every problem can be solved through that lens. Companies can earn money by creating something of value, or by making something cheaper. Facebook connecting the world together was creating new value, and Google making information easily/freely available was a drastic reduction in the cost of discovering information. Both of those services created value. The problem of economic inequality is not a problem of needing more value, it's a problem of poor distribution of value. That's a problem companies are not good at solving. Companies are usually terrible at solving those problems. The other side I see you going for is that the government seems unreliable, so you'd rather there was a solution -- ideally one that's scalable -- that didn't rely on forces outside of your control. My best guess would be volunteer work and activism, which doesn't have to go through the government. Supporting local businesses and encouraging your neighbors to do so helps your local economy. Food banks and homeless shelters are great, and so are public libraries. Big brother/sister programs, little league sports coaching, volunteering at after school programs -- all good ways to help.

ListeningPie 7y ago
Solving inequality with a profit generating business would change drastically change our society. The closest example I can think of is Kiva. They provide micro loans for new businesses that cannot access traditional banking services. For us the lender, it is temporary charity as we get no interest, but Kiva field agents collect interest.

closeparen 7y ago

Convince smart and capable people to avoid creating value. A really good entertainment technology or recreational drug could help. Propagate cultural norms against trying too hard/selling out. There are probably some ed-tech startup ideas that would gain adoption by playing well to cultural biases while making children less likely to succeed. You could also try to make capital markets skittish and reduce investment in productive enterprises by engineering a crash or perpetrating many large scale, hard-to-detect frauds. Inequality is produced by engines of value creation whose fruits accrue more to some than others. The simplest way to reduce it is to break them.