5 ms·

>being forced to show off a shiny but pathetically impossible to maintain product because it would simply break if handled normally is really stretching it to t

by FDSGSG 7y ago

>being forced to show off a shiny but pathetically impossible to maintain product because it would simply break if handled normally is really stretching it to the limits. What product are you referring to?

ksaj 7y ago
Touché. I didn't even realize in being so specific about one product, I pretty much encapsulated all of Apple's current products. My ancient Mac Pro has been awesome, and outlasted the PeeCees I got in the same time period and since, except for one Dell that seems to be a serious overachiever. My Gen 2 iPod Touch still works, while none of my subsequent iPhones or iPod/iPads do, despite their increasing prettiness. Every apple device I've purchased outside those two devices have been terrible in terms of quality. They were all awesome on purchase day, but quickly downhill thereafter. Every. one. For example (I have a few, but will just stick to one), I cannot get over how bad Apple keyboards are. Just look at them the wrong way with a damp cleaning rag in your hand, and they'll never work properly again. Clearly designed to be tossed once they yellow. Meanwhile I have PeeCee keyboards from Y2K era that work just fine and are easily cleaned. I have this one USB keyboard from an old Power Mac that I treat dearly because it has outlasted the hell out of every other Mac keyboard I've ever owned. They've been the worst keyboards I've ever experienced. No tactile feature or pseudo-technical salespitch makes any one of them a good deal. The icon markings on that keyboard don't even match what the OS does with them anymore, but I won't part with it as long as I have an Apple computer that needs a keyboard, because the prospect of getting yet another one of their newer models is simply not worth it. Phew. Thanks for your comment. It made me laugh and then instantly come face to face with regret.
- jacobolus 7y ago
  > USB keyboard from an old Power Mac that I treat dearly because it has outlasted the hell out of every other Mac keyboard I've ever owned Let me recommend the Macintosh keyboards from the late 1980s (M0116 and M0115). 30 years later most of them (if they weren’t scrapped sometime) are still working just fine, and are very pleasant to use. The Alps SKCM keyswitches used can get a bit scratchy feeling if they have been sitting out in a dusty place for 20 years, but even in mediocre condition are nicer (and more electrically robust/reliable) than any keyswitches sold at scale today. To get these keyboards requires some kind of ADB -> USB protocol converter, but those aren’t too hard to find. The various rubber dome USB Mac keyboards sold from 2000–2005 are cheap garbage by comparison.
  - AlgorithmicTime 7y ago
    Eh, Alps SKCM are nice, but buckling springs are better, and still produced by Unicomp. Also, it's kind of a renaissance of keyboard switches right now. Kaihua is putting out some interesting designs.
  - kadoban 7y ago
    They're nicer than _any_ keyswitches sold today? That seems hard to believe, are you excluding so-called mechanical switches? There's a wide variety of those out there today, and even just sticking to Cherry MX and knockoffs, they're _quite_ pleasant and there's a variety of feels, sounds, travel distances, etc. available. It's really quite a nice time to be a typist.
    - PascLeRasc 7y ago
      Alps are mechanical switches, and they're still used in some modern keyboards. Vintage Apple Alps keyboards go for quite a bit on eBay.
      - kadoban 7y ago
        Sure, it's just I personally find the current quite extreme variety of keyboard switches gives a lot of room for preference. It seems surprising that you'd have to go back that far to find something ideal. I mean if you like them best, certainly your prerogative, just found it interesting.
      - jacobolus 7y ago
        Alps SKCM switches have not been used in anything new in the past 2.5 decades.
    - jacobolus 7y ago
      There are some other similarly nice keyboard switches from the 1980s and early 90s (and some nicer ones from the 70s; keyboards have generally been on a steady decline for the past 40–50 years, as cost cutting dominated other considerations). None still sold in large numbers today. Cherry MX are much less pleasant, IMO, and also not nearly so electrically reliable. (The Alps SKCM contact mechanism is much more complicated and better sealed. They have an extremely clean electrical signal.) There was a much bigger variety of available keyboard switches in the 1980s than today.

by FDSGSG 7y ago

ksaj 7y ago

Touché. I didn't even realize in being so specific about one product, I pretty much encapsulated all of Apple's current products. My ancient Mac Pro has been awesome, and outlasted the PeeCees I got in the same time period and since, except for one Dell that seems to be a serious overachiever. My Gen 2 iPod Touch still works, while none of my subsequent iPhones or iPod/iPads do, despite their increasing prettiness. Every apple device I've purchased outside those two devices have been terrible in terms of quality. They were all awesome on purchase day, but quickly downhill thereafter. Every. one. For example (I have a few, but will just stick to one), I cannot get over how bad Apple keyboards are. Just look at them the wrong way with a damp cleaning rag in your hand, and they'll never work properly again. Clearly designed to be tossed once they yellow. Meanwhile I have PeeCee keyboards from Y2K era that work just fine and are easily cleaned. I have this one USB keyboard from an old Power Mac that I treat dearly because it has outlasted the hell out of every other Mac keyboard I've ever owned. They've been the worst keyboards I've ever experienced. No tactile feature or pseudo-technical salespitch makes any one of them a good deal. The icon markings on that keyboard don't even match what the OS does with them anymore, but I won't part with it as long as I have an Apple computer that needs a keyboard, because the prospect of getting yet another one of their newer models is simply not worth it. Phew. Thanks for your comment. It made me laugh and then instantly come face to face with regret.

jacobolus 7y ago
> USB keyboard from an old Power Mac that I treat dearly because it has outlasted the hell out of every other Mac keyboard I've ever owned Let me recommend the Macintosh keyboards from the late 1980s (M0116 and M0115). 30 years later most of them (if they weren’t scrapped sometime) are still working just fine, and are very pleasant to use. The Alps SKCM keyswitches used can get a bit scratchy feeling if they have been sitting out in a dusty place for 20 years, but even in mediocre condition are nicer (and more electrically robust/reliable) than any keyswitches sold at scale today. To get these keyboards requires some kind of ADB -> USB protocol converter, but those aren’t too hard to find. The various rubber dome USB Mac keyboards sold from 2000–2005 are cheap garbage by comparison.
- AlgorithmicTime 7y ago
  Eh, Alps SKCM are nice, but buckling springs are better, and still produced by Unicomp. Also, it's kind of a renaissance of keyboard switches right now. Kaihua is putting out some interesting designs.
- kadoban 7y ago
  They're nicer than _any_ keyswitches sold today? That seems hard to believe, are you excluding so-called mechanical switches? There's a wide variety of those out there today, and even just sticking to Cherry MX and knockoffs, they're _quite_ pleasant and there's a variety of feels, sounds, travel distances, etc. available. It's really quite a nice time to be a typist.
  - PascLeRasc 7y ago
    Alps are mechanical switches, and they're still used in some modern keyboards. Vintage Apple Alps keyboards go for quite a bit on eBay.
    - kadoban 7y ago
      Sure, it's just I personally find the current quite extreme variety of keyboard switches gives a lot of room for preference. It seems surprising that you'd have to go back that far to find something ideal. I mean if you like them best, certainly your prerogative, just found it interesting.
    - jacobolus 7y ago
      Alps SKCM switches have not been used in anything new in the past 2.5 decades.
  - jacobolus 7y ago
    There are some other similarly nice keyboard switches from the 1980s and early 90s (and some nicer ones from the 70s; keyboards have generally been on a steady decline for the past 40–50 years, as cost cutting dominated other considerations). None still sold in large numbers today. Cherry MX are much less pleasant, IMO, and also not nearly so electrically reliable. (The Alps SKCM contact mechanism is much more complicated and better sealed. They have an extremely clean electrical signal.) There was a much bigger variety of available keyboard switches in the 1980s than today.