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> Also popular here because some folks imagine a new ecosystem of cheap Rpi type boards with no magical binary blobs. See, for example, lowrisc.org (though they

by slezyr 7y ago

> Also popular here because some folks imagine a new ecosystem of cheap Rpi type boards with no magical binary blobs. See, for example, lowrisc.org (though they seem far from shipping) I thought that the biggest blob in most linux systems is GPU driver and RISC-V doesn't solves this.

tyingq 7y ago
There's a mystery boot blob in the RPi that's pretty famous.
- wolfgke 7y ago
  This is because of the specific architecture of BCM2836, BCM2837, and BCM2711B0, which are rather VideoCore chips with appended ARM cores.
- imtringued 7y ago
  I'm not sure what you are talking about. There is no such thing as a mystery boot blob in the Raspberry Pi. It is well known that the video core chip is the main processor of the Raspberry Pi. It runs a proprietary RTOS called ThreadX. As an afterthought someone added a bunch of ARM cores to the Video Core chip which obviously has to cooperate with the main processor to do anything at all. https://www.heise.de/select/ct/2016/8/1460193213013079/contentimages/Raspi_Broadcom_mtk_IG.jpg https://www.heise.de/select/ct/2016/8/1460193213013079/conte...
  - tyingq 7y ago
    So you're saying there's source available for the boot binary?
wolfgke 7y ago
> I thought that the biggest blob in most linux systems is GPU driver and RISC-V doesn't solves this. It makes no sense to counter a hypetrain with intelligent arguments. :-) Of course, you are right.
ben-schaaf 7y ago
The AMD graphics drivers are completely open source.
- pb82 7y ago
  The drivers are, but not the firmware running on the GPU (i think it's called Video BIOS). I'm not sure if a completely free GPU exists. But this is not something that RISCV is concerned with.
  - floatboth 7y ago
    "Video BIOS" (these days, more likely an EFI GOP driver) runs on the CPU and provides display output before the OS is booted. On-GPU firmware is not that interesting or concerning, you can consider it part of the hardware.
    - rrss 7y ago
      > On-GPU firmware is not that interesting or concerning So people don't like it if kernel drivers are closed source, but if all the functionality is moved to firmware and the open kernel driver just pokes the closed firmware that does all the work it's fine? What? How does that logic work?
      - jtl999 7y ago
        Go ask the FSF with their questionable RYF certification. TLDR: As long as the firmware blobs are in ROM, who cares?
    - debatem1 7y ago
      Why is it neither interesting nor concerning? From a security perspective it would seem to be both-- hostile firmware could at the least read secrets from your screen, and I'd be shocked if it couldn't convince the corresponding kernel driver to misbehave in interesting ways. Not knowing what is actually in the blob, you have to assume it is at least potentially that malicious.
    - 7y ago

by slezyr 7y ago

tyingq 7y ago

There's a mystery boot blob in the RPi that's pretty famous.

wolfgke 7y ago
This is because of the specific architecture of BCM2836, BCM2837, and BCM2711B0, which are rather VideoCore chips with appended ARM cores.
imtringued 7y ago
I'm not sure what you are talking about. There is no such thing as a mystery boot blob in the Raspberry Pi. It is well known that the video core chip is the main processor of the Raspberry Pi. It runs a proprietary RTOS called ThreadX. As an afterthought someone added a bunch of ARM cores to the Video Core chip which obviously has to cooperate with the main processor to do anything at all. https://www.heise.de/select/ct/2016/8/1460193213013079/contentimages/Raspi_Broadcom_mtk_IG.jpg https://www.heise.de/select/ct/2016/8/1460193213013079/conte...
- tyingq 7y ago
  So you're saying there's source available for the boot binary?

wolfgke 7y ago

> I thought that the biggest blob in most linux systems is GPU driver and RISC-V doesn't solves this. It makes no sense to counter a hypetrain with intelligent arguments. :-) Of course, you are right.

ben-schaaf 7y ago

The AMD graphics drivers are completely open source.

pb82 7y ago
The drivers are, but not the firmware running on the GPU (i think it's called Video BIOS). I'm not sure if a completely free GPU exists. But this is not something that RISCV is concerned with.
- floatboth 7y ago
  "Video BIOS" (these days, more likely an EFI GOP driver) runs on the CPU and provides display output before the OS is booted. On-GPU firmware is not that interesting or concerning, you can consider it part of the hardware.
  - rrss 7y ago
    > On-GPU firmware is not that interesting or concerning So people don't like it if kernel drivers are closed source, but if all the functionality is moved to firmware and the open kernel driver just pokes the closed firmware that does all the work it's fine? What? How does that logic work?
    - jtl999 7y ago
      Go ask the FSF with their questionable RYF certification. TLDR: As long as the firmware blobs are in ROM, who cares?
  - debatem1 7y ago
    Why is it neither interesting nor concerning? From a security perspective it would seem to be both-- hostile firmware could at the least read secrets from your screen, and I'd be shocked if it couldn't convince the corresponding kernel driver to misbehave in interesting ways. Not knowing what is actually in the blob, you have to assume it is at least potentially that malicious.
  - 7y ago