5 ms·

I would say the ratio of a circle circumference to its diameter is naturally occurring.

by infradig 7y ago

Someone 7y ago
Yes, that is π in Euclidean space, but that is rare (¿nonexistent?) according to our current understanding of nature.
coldtea 7y ago
Are there circles in nature?
- sverige 7y ago
  (Looks at sun, closes eyes.) Yes.
  - billpg 7y ago
    That's an ellipse.
    - sverige 7y ago
      Really? You can tell that by looking at it with the naked eye and no scientific instruments? Are such instruments 'natural'? Wherever did we get the idea of 'circle' from then?
      - coldtea 7y ago
        >You can tell that by looking at it with the naked eye and no scientific instruments? How is that relevant? We didn't ask if someone can consider or see with naked eye something that looks like a circle, but whether circles do exist in nature. And we have the "scientific instruments" to check up on the sun (which has a very small, but existing, buldge in the equator, and which also has an uneven exterior with flares and all kinds of motion). >Wherever did we get the idea of 'circle' from then? From objects resembling circles, like cut tree trunks, the moon at night, and so on. Same place we got the idea of line, while there are no lines in nature (for one, because everything we see line-like, is just a line segment: lines extend to infinity).
        sverige 7y ago
        So, and really just for the sake of argument, if we could look at the sun with one of its poles at the center, it would still be elliptical? Or if we could somehow see cross-sections of atoms are elliptical and not circular too? If so, how do you know that?
        coldtea 7y ago
        >So, and really just for the sake of argument, if we could look at the sun with one of its poles at the center, it would still be elliptical? Missed the part where the sun's surface also isn't seamless, but an"uneven exterior with flares and all kinds of motion"? >Or if we could somehow see cross-sections of atoms are elliptical and not circular too? I seriously doubt it, as from what we know atoms don't look like little balls and aren't solid objects themselves -- they consist of electrons, protons, and neutrons, in orbits, and are "fuzzy". They're drawn as little balls for illustration purposes.
    - majewsky 7y ago
      FWIW, pi also appears in the formula for the area of an ellipse.
- SkyBelow 7y ago
  There are plenty of waves in nature, which use trigonometric functions to define them which share a relationship with e and π. e and π themselves cannot exist in nature (per our current understanding) because our current reality isn't infinitely precise so any circle that exists won't be a perfect circle.

I would say the ratio of a circle circumference to its diameter is naturally occurring.

Someone 7y ago

Yes, that is π in Euclidean space, but that is rare (¿nonexistent?) according to our current understanding of nature.

coldtea 7y ago

Are there circles in nature?

sverige 7y ago
(Looks at sun, closes eyes.) Yes.
- billpg 7y ago
  That's an ellipse.
  - sverige 7y ago
    Really? You can tell that by looking at it with the naked eye and no scientific instruments? Are such instruments 'natural'? Wherever did we get the idea of 'circle' from then?
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >You can tell that by looking at it with the naked eye and no scientific instruments? How is that relevant? We didn't ask if someone can consider or see with naked eye something that looks like a circle, but whether circles do exist in nature. And we have the "scientific instruments" to check up on the sun (which has a very small, but existing, buldge in the equator, and which also has an uneven exterior with flares and all kinds of motion). >Wherever did we get the idea of 'circle' from then? From objects resembling circles, like cut tree trunks, the moon at night, and so on. Same place we got the idea of line, while there are no lines in nature (for one, because everything we see line-like, is just a line segment: lines extend to infinity).
      - sverige 7y ago
        So, and really just for the sake of argument, if we could look at the sun with one of its poles at the center, it would still be elliptical? Or if we could somehow see cross-sections of atoms are elliptical and not circular too? If so, how do you know that?
        coldtea 7y ago
        >So, and really just for the sake of argument, if we could look at the sun with one of its poles at the center, it would still be elliptical? Missed the part where the sun's surface also isn't seamless, but an"uneven exterior with flares and all kinds of motion"? >Or if we could somehow see cross-sections of atoms are elliptical and not circular too? I seriously doubt it, as from what we know atoms don't look like little balls and aren't solid objects themselves -- they consist of electrons, protons, and neutrons, in orbits, and are "fuzzy". They're drawn as little balls for illustration purposes.
  - majewsky 7y ago
    FWIW, pi also appears in the formula for the area of an ellipse.
SkyBelow 7y ago
There are plenty of waves in nature, which use trigonometric functions to define them which share a relationship with e and π. e and π themselves cannot exist in nature (per our current understanding) because our current reality isn't infinitely precise so any circle that exists won't be a perfect circle.