8 ms·

I wouldn't assume it comes from an ethical origin. It's more about killing competition. As soon as the competition is dead they'll be talking about how non-viab

by tfha 7y ago

I wouldn't assume it comes from an ethical origin. It's more about killing competition. As soon as the competition is dead they'll be talking about how non-viable $21/hr is. Also, a high minimum wage for drivers really bumps the value of their self driving car arm.

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
But Uber's opponents seem to be arguing that $21/hr is too low, and it'd give drivers a worse deal than passing the law. If that's true, passing the law will kill Uber's competition even more effectively.
- munk-a 7y ago
  I don't follow, is this a "perfect is the enemy of the good" situation where they think the minimum wage should be higher and are opposing a half-step toward that? For political reasons that can make sense, it's hard to push for a minimum wage bump right after a different one, but I am unaware of other cab companies advocating for a higher minimum wage prior to this.
- enlyth 7y ago
  Considering a 40 hour work week, $21 hour comes out to about $3350 before tax monthly, is that really too low for driving around a car?
  - boring_twenties 7y ago
    It's $42k annually and that's before the insurance, maintenance, depreciation and fuel, so down to the mid-to-high 30's. That seems like it would be poverty level in many California cities.
    - enlyth 7y ago
      That's a fair point I didn't think about the car maintenance too much.
      - erobbins 7y ago
        Neither do most of the drivers, unfortunately. They are going to be the ones holding the bag at the end.
    - pushpop 7y ago
      Not to mention most of those hypothetical 40hrs a week (assuming they can get that much work) would be unsociable hours because that’s when demand is at its greatest (eg people leaving the pub).
    - vadym909 7y ago
      Family health insurance costs $24K/yr. Rent is atleast $24K/hr. Those 2 alone will kill you...
      - boring_twenties 7y ago
        > Rent is atleast $24K/hr Heh. I heard it was bad in CA but wow.
    - tootahe45 7y ago
      ..take a different job then?
  - badfrog 7y ago
    > is that really too low for driving around a car? Depends how you look at it. If you're looking purely at supply and demand of drivers, it's fine. If you think people working 40 hours a week should be able to afford decent housing and health insurance it's probably too low.
    - enlyth 7y ago
      I'm not familiar with US salaries I guess it greatly depends on the state/city you're in. But in the UK I don't think this amount is uncommon for some doctors or software developers, especially outside of London.
      - whamlastxmas 7y ago
        After tax it's probably closer to $2800, and health insurance is around $600/month for a pretty average plan. For a family of three this leaves you $1000 left over, and even the crappiest one bedrooms in California in small towns start around $1300/month.
      - TuringNYC 7y ago
        Comparing different countries’ wages just isn’t a good comparison. Consider the typical health insurance premium and student loan burden for US workers and you’ll already see why a UK comparison would be apples and oranges.
  - nefitty 7y ago
    A 30 minute ride already costs me about $18. I assume an hour ride would be around $40 or so. As a rider I would seriously wonder where those other $19 are going... Not to mention I would still feel the standard pressure to tip.
    - baddox 7y ago
      A 30 minute ride in the Bay Area can be close to $40 (with no peak pricing increases).
  - Jommi 7y ago
    You're assuming cab drivers only work 40 hours. That's wildly off base.
fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
>As soon as the competition is dead they'll be talking about how non-viable $21/hr is. Won't even have to do that, wait for inflation to take hold (I believe inflation is very likely to explode in the next few years) and just ride it out.
- notfromhere 7y ago
  hyperinflation has always "been around the corner" by every financial crank with a blog. It's not coming.
  - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
    I'm not talking about weimar republic style hyperinflation my feeling is more on the order of 5 - 12% (maybe not even by CPI standards). Essentially 1970's style stagflation again. CA wages are already high a few years of that and Uber will be back at baseline.
  - turtlecloud 7y ago
    What are you talking about? It’s already here. A home in Bay Area is close to 2 mil now lol.
    - xeromal 7y ago
      How much is a meal at mcdonalds?
    - Loughla 7y ago
      Why is a home in an unbelievably popular place to live, which is also full of massive amounts of new money, your measure of inflation? A home near me is about 100k for 2000 sq ft main floor. Does that mean inflation doesn't exist? What a weird argument.
    - notfromhere 7y ago
      that's localized inflation due to housing scarcity in the Bay, it's not hitting the economy as a whole.
oconnor663 7y ago
> I wouldn't assume it comes from an ethical origin. It's always hard to say where an idea in a company "comes from". We probably don't mean literally the human being who said it out loud first. Most ideas have been around for a long time before they become policy, waiting for circumstances to change or politics in the organization to favor them. If the politics in an organization favor an idea for a combination of reasons, both ethical and self-interested, it might not be fair to say which reason "gets the credit" for the idea.

by tfha 7y ago

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago

But Uber's opponents seem to be arguing that $21/hr is too low, and it'd give drivers a worse deal than passing the law. If that's true, passing the law will kill Uber's competition even more effectively.

munk-a 7y ago
I don't follow, is this a "perfect is the enemy of the good" situation where they think the minimum wage should be higher and are opposing a half-step toward that? For political reasons that can make sense, it's hard to push for a minimum wage bump right after a different one, but I am unaware of other cab companies advocating for a higher minimum wage prior to this.
enlyth 7y ago
Considering a 40 hour work week, $21 hour comes out to about $3350 before tax monthly, is that really too low for driving around a car?
- boring_twenties 7y ago
  It's $42k annually and that's before the insurance, maintenance, depreciation and fuel, so down to the mid-to-high 30's. That seems like it would be poverty level in many California cities.
  - enlyth 7y ago
    That's a fair point I didn't think about the car maintenance too much.
    - erobbins 7y ago
      Neither do most of the drivers, unfortunately. They are going to be the ones holding the bag at the end.
  - pushpop 7y ago
    Not to mention most of those hypothetical 40hrs a week (assuming they can get that much work) would be unsociable hours because that’s when demand is at its greatest (eg people leaving the pub).
  - vadym909 7y ago
    Family health insurance costs $24K/yr. Rent is atleast $24K/hr. Those 2 alone will kill you...
    - boring_twenties 7y ago
      > Rent is atleast $24K/hr Heh. I heard it was bad in CA but wow.
  - tootahe45 7y ago
    ..take a different job then?
- badfrog 7y ago
  > is that really too low for driving around a car? Depends how you look at it. If you're looking purely at supply and demand of drivers, it's fine. If you think people working 40 hours a week should be able to afford decent housing and health insurance it's probably too low.
  - enlyth 7y ago
    I'm not familiar with US salaries I guess it greatly depends on the state/city you're in. But in the UK I don't think this amount is uncommon for some doctors or software developers, especially outside of London.
    - whamlastxmas 7y ago
      After tax it's probably closer to $2800, and health insurance is around $600/month for a pretty average plan. For a family of three this leaves you $1000 left over, and even the crappiest one bedrooms in California in small towns start around $1300/month.
    - TuringNYC 7y ago
      Comparing different countries’ wages just isn’t a good comparison. Consider the typical health insurance premium and student loan burden for US workers and you’ll already see why a UK comparison would be apples and oranges.
- nefitty 7y ago
  A 30 minute ride already costs me about $18. I assume an hour ride would be around $40 or so. As a rider I would seriously wonder where those other $19 are going... Not to mention I would still feel the standard pressure to tip.
  - baddox 7y ago
    A 30 minute ride in the Bay Area can be close to $40 (with no peak pricing increases).
- Jommi 7y ago
  You're assuming cab drivers only work 40 hours. That's wildly off base.

fuzz4lyfe 7y ago

>As soon as the competition is dead they'll be talking about how non-viable $21/hr is. Won't even have to do that, wait for inflation to take hold (I believe inflation is very likely to explode in the next few years) and just ride it out.

notfromhere 7y ago
hyperinflation has always "been around the corner" by every financial crank with a blog. It's not coming.
- fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
  I'm not talking about weimar republic style hyperinflation my feeling is more on the order of 5 - 12% (maybe not even by CPI standards). Essentially 1970's style stagflation again. CA wages are already high a few years of that and Uber will be back at baseline.
- turtlecloud 7y ago
  What are you talking about? It’s already here. A home in Bay Area is close to 2 mil now lol.
  - xeromal 7y ago
    How much is a meal at mcdonalds?
  - Loughla 7y ago
    Why is a home in an unbelievably popular place to live, which is also full of massive amounts of new money, your measure of inflation? A home near me is about 100k for 2000 sq ft main floor. Does that mean inflation doesn't exist? What a weird argument.
  - notfromhere 7y ago
    that's localized inflation due to housing scarcity in the Bay, it's not hitting the economy as a whole.

oconnor663 7y ago

> I wouldn't assume it comes from an ethical origin. It's always hard to say where an idea in a company "comes from". We probably don't mean literally the human being who said it out loud first. Most ideas have been around for a long time before they become policy, waiting for circumstances to change or politics in the organization to favor them. If the politics in an organization favor an idea for a combination of reasons, both ethical and self-interested, it might not be fair to say which reason "gets the credit" for the idea.