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We run 7 independent repair shops, so on its face this is great news for us. I did sign us up for this program, and we are beginning the process today of gettin

We run 7 independent repair shops, so on its face this is great news for us. I did sign us up for this program, and we are beginning the process today of getting at least 1-2 people at all of our locations to be certified. There is lots of good news here for us; the biggest being that we can get official parts...finally! Although aftermarket parts have come a long way. We now stock iPhone batteries that have larger capacity than the original. (Yes, truly a larger capacity. We do 30,000+ repairs a year...we are not messing around with batteries that just say they have a larger capacity.) The biggest problem I potentially see is profit margins. AASP's have long struggled because Apple wants to squeeze all of the profit out of their business. If you pay $149 to get your iPhone 8 screen replaced, but Apple charges us $135 for the screen, we can't realistically make any money off of that. We charge $69 to replace an iPhone 8 screen currently, so there's also a potential negative on the consumer side of having to pay more to get screens replaced. It does, however, appear that Apple will let providers in this program also offer third-party screens, which is a big change from the current AASP program. All in all, as someone whose business is directly affected by this, I'm mildly optimistic. As long as Apple understands that repair shops need to be profitable too, this can be a really good thing for both sides.

ProAm 7y ago
Can't you just charge different prices for Official Apple Certified parts vs aftermarket. Should keep your profit margins the same.
- ericabiz 7y ago
  No one knows for sure at this point...by reading this press release, you have as much information as we do. It's our hope that we can do that, but if people come in and pick the Apple screen, we'd like to make as much margin as we currently do on the aftermarket screens.
  - Despegar 7y ago
    I don't think that's realistic. You're getting genuine parts from Apple, not parts that fell off a truck in China. If you want the same margin, raise your prices.
    - devilmoon 7y ago
      that's what he's saying?
- McAtNite 7y ago
  Personally I’d be shocked if Apple allows an independent repair provider to provide both OEM and third party parts. Their terms are pretty broad on their application page but they explicitly state they reserve the right to cancel your access for any reason. I can’t seem to find more detailed terms, but I’m willing to bet there’s something in their terms that would prevent this.
  - derefr 7y ago
    > Personally I’d be shocked if Apple allows an independent repair provider to provide both OEM and third party parts. How exactly would they know? Just run two corporate entities out of one shop, with the grey-market one registered to a nearby PO box.
    - kennywinker 7y ago
      “Hello, how much to replace the screen on an iPhone X?”
    - ralmeida 7y ago
      Just because it's not easily enforceable doesn't mean shops will accept knowingly breaking their terms with Apple. And, as mentioned in a sibling comment, there are ways to do it, like an auditor posing as a customer, or simply compelling them to say under oath if they are doing this or not (in which case the situation goes from breach of contract to lying under oath).
  - ProAm 7y ago
    People will just continue to use non-Apple parts then no? If Apple expects customers to buy a new phone every 2 years, why would they spend a significant more amount of money for a few extra months of usage? If there is a $150 difference between an Apple screen and non-Apple screen, Im going non-Apple
    - dzhiurgis 7y ago
      > Apple expects customers to buy a new phone every 2 years Sorry what? My iPhones last 3-4 years, but software support is for around 5 years.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  That sounds like a non-issue that can be solved with separate corperate entities. Bubba's phone repair and Jimbo's phone repair can both operate out of the same location owned by a third party and enter into a contract that lets them suitibly share resources. Small businesses do this kind of thing all the time. You can imagine if you have a company that does landscaping and takes down trees would want the landscaping under a different LLC to reduce costs (insurance, regulatory compliance, etc) and limit liability from the tree cutting side of the business.
ghostly_s 7y ago
Well, just to provide my anecdotal experience with aftermarket repairs, I got my cracked iphone screen replaced at a local shop. They offer a "lifetime warranty" which in practice just means they have thus far installed four replacement parts, each of which has been faulty in a different fun way that doesn't become apparent until after I leave the shop. There is good reason for "certified replacement part" programs, especially in this industry, and customers will seek them out.
- freehunter 7y ago
  I had an iPhone 5s that I took to a local repair shop four times for a screen that was separating from the chassis. Four times they replaced the screen and within a week it started happening again. I fully support independent repair shops but I am willing to pay more for a quality job. Right now since Apple doesn’t certify third party repair shops, there’s just no way of knowing.
  - Despegar 7y ago
    >Apple doesn’t certify third party repair shops That's exactly what the AASP program is.
    - briandear 7y ago
      https://support.apple.com/aasp-program https://support.apple.com/aasp-program
  - altec3 7y ago
    I'm also willing to pay more for quality parts. I had one of those guys that drops by wherever you are and replaces your screen. The 3rd party screen he used was crap compared to the OEM screen. White balance was wrong and I couldn't view the phone with polarized sunglasses on.
    - dzhiurgis 7y ago
      > I couldn't view the phone with polarized sunglasses on. Same experience with $2 tempered glass screen protector I've got on yesterday. Also typing accuracy massively decreased.
rasz 7y ago
>beginning the process today of getting at least 1-2 people at all of our locations to be certified. so useful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6f_GUM1REg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6f_GUM1REg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1piWR4ZR7gE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1piWR4ZR7gE >We now stock iPhone batteries that have larger capacity than the original. (Yes, truly a larger capacity. We do 30,000+ repairs a year...we are not messing around with batteries that just say they have a larger capacity.) have you verified it by actually measuring? Can you show a discharge plot of such a battery new/~after a year next to Apple one? and the equipment used (constant load brand/model)? Its easy to say 'we send 30K units into the world and they seem fine'.
fillskills 7y ago
Knowing nothing about your business, I would humbly suggest not fighting on price but on other areas like speed, quality, customer service etc. The nearest apple store to me is 20 miles away. I would rather pay more money to have it fixed in a durable way closer to home. Just my 2 cents. Take them with a big grain of salt.
- wh0knows 7y ago
  I would say you are in the minority of consumers, most will just chase the lowest price. Additionally, most people will look at third-party repair shops as a way to get a discount from Apple's prices, not to pay more.
  - lutorm 7y ago
    Someone just chasing the lowest price wouldn't have bought an Apple device to begin with ...
    - adt2bt 7y ago
      That is most certainly not a true assumption. There are quite a few people who stretch their funds to just buy an iPhone and need to penny pinch when something in it breaks. They're still a valuable market.
    - reciprocity 7y ago
      Normally I'd agree but having some familiarity in this area, my observation is that there is a subset of Apple users who buy Apple products who don't think about any post-purchase costs (as with many other products associated with the "higher end / luxury" image in the mind of the customer, I'd imagine). A customer doesn't expect to be quoted >$1000 to replace a damaged screen on an iMac machine, nor do they expect to be told that their SSD can't be replaced because Apple uses their own proprietary connector [1]. Tons of legitimate things to not like about Apple particularly if you care about the right to repair your own machine. [2] > When Apple released their first “blade” solid state drive in the Late 2010 release of the MacBook Air, they still used established mSATA interface technology, but ditched the traditional SATA and mSATA form factors found in most laptops at that time, instead opting for a custom connector that’s never been used by another manufacturer before or since. With the 2010 MacBook Air, Apple began a new trend of developing proprietary connectors and form factors that eventually pervaded the entire Apple lineup and ushered in an era of drives that, while easily replaceable, were not so easy to find. Many people incorrectly assume the connectors are one of the M.2 variants found in many PCs, but to date, Apple has still never used a standard M.2 connector. And unlike M.2 pin arrangements, Apple’s connectors were never given distinguishing names, so from this point on I’ll just refer to the connectors by their pin arrangements as described in the image below. [1] https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-ultimate-guide-to-specs-and-upgrades#hdr-6 https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-ultimate-gu... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronics_right_to_repair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronics_right_to_repair
megaremote 7y ago
> If you pay $149 to get your iPhone 8 screen replaced, but Apple charges us $135 for the screen, we can't realistically make any money off of that. I mean, ok. Doesn't that just mean you aren't charging enough? Is apple charging you a percent of what you charge?
- dumbfoundded 7y ago
  No, I'm guessing the author is referring to official Apple stores. So in this example, an official Apple store offers a screen replacement for $149. Apple then announces they will sell official parts to independent shops. Apple will then offer an official screen for $135, leaving no room for the independent shop to make money unless the repair shop charges $170 (made-up number for example). The benefit for Apple may be two-fold. Apple will go from having the most ridiculously overpriced repairs to being the cheapest for official parts. Apple may also then justify making it extremely difficult to use non-official parts (as they're already doing). If you're optimistic, you can say Apple is doing this to make the customer experience better to help improve their stagnant phone sales. If you're cynical you can say it's a clever plot to eliminate independent repairs and force people to go to Apple stores.
  - Spivak 7y ago
    This seems weird to me because the official parts are better. If Apple was skimping out on their parts and selling them to shops at a huge premium then independent shops would have the advantage because they could repair your phone with higher quality 3rd-party parts for less. I might just not understand the market here but why would I assume that my local repair shop would be able to offer me labor at a cheaper rate than Apple's huge repair system?
    - nulbyte 7y ago
      I generally find third party repair is less in all sorts of cases. I'd sooner take my car to a mechanic I trust than an actual Hyundai shop where they'll tell me every expensive thing needs to be replaced. Just like a car manufacturer, Apple has incentive to inflate the prices, direct and third party, to their benefit and consumer detriment.
baybal2 7y ago
> We now stock iPhone batteries that have larger capacity than the original. (Yes, truly a larger capacity. We do 30,000+ repairs a year...we are not messing around with batteries that just say they have a larger capacity.) In light of this, you should check an absolutely bizarre legal case of Rolex vs Agarwal, where American judiciary basically said that trademark law trumps the first sale doctrine, and you have to remove all and every trademark from refurbished goods, on which any alteration is made. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9bfa5834-b8dc-475a-a4dc-171c25b0c062 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9bfa5834-b8dc...

ProAm 7y ago

Can't you just charge different prices for Official Apple Certified parts vs aftermarket. Should keep your profit margins the same.

ericabiz 7y ago
No one knows for sure at this point...by reading this press release, you have as much information as we do. It's our hope that we can do that, but if people come in and pick the Apple screen, we'd like to make as much margin as we currently do on the aftermarket screens.
- Despegar 7y ago
  I don't think that's realistic. You're getting genuine parts from Apple, not parts that fell off a truck in China. If you want the same margin, raise your prices.
  - devilmoon 7y ago
    that's what he's saying?
McAtNite 7y ago
Personally I’d be shocked if Apple allows an independent repair provider to provide both OEM and third party parts. Their terms are pretty broad on their application page but they explicitly state they reserve the right to cancel your access for any reason. I can’t seem to find more detailed terms, but I’m willing to bet there’s something in their terms that would prevent this.
- derefr 7y ago
  > Personally I’d be shocked if Apple allows an independent repair provider to provide both OEM and third party parts. How exactly would they know? Just run two corporate entities out of one shop, with the grey-market one registered to a nearby PO box.
  - kennywinker 7y ago
    “Hello, how much to replace the screen on an iPhone X?”
  - ralmeida 7y ago
    Just because it's not easily enforceable doesn't mean shops will accept knowingly breaking their terms with Apple. And, as mentioned in a sibling comment, there are ways to do it, like an auditor posing as a customer, or simply compelling them to say under oath if they are doing this or not (in which case the situation goes from breach of contract to lying under oath).
- ProAm 7y ago
  People will just continue to use non-Apple parts then no? If Apple expects customers to buy a new phone every 2 years, why would they spend a significant more amount of money for a few extra months of usage? If there is a $150 difference between an Apple screen and non-Apple screen, Im going non-Apple
  - dzhiurgis 7y ago
    > Apple expects customers to buy a new phone every 2 years Sorry what? My iPhones last 3-4 years, but software support is for around 5 years.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
That sounds like a non-issue that can be solved with separate corperate entities. Bubba's phone repair and Jimbo's phone repair can both operate out of the same location owned by a third party and enter into a contract that lets them suitibly share resources. Small businesses do this kind of thing all the time. You can imagine if you have a company that does landscaping and takes down trees would want the landscaping under a different LLC to reduce costs (insurance, regulatory compliance, etc) and limit liability from the tree cutting side of the business.

ghostly_s 7y ago

Well, just to provide my anecdotal experience with aftermarket repairs, I got my cracked iphone screen replaced at a local shop. They offer a "lifetime warranty" which in practice just means they have thus far installed four replacement parts, each of which has been faulty in a different fun way that doesn't become apparent until after I leave the shop. There is good reason for "certified replacement part" programs, especially in this industry, and customers will seek them out.

freehunter 7y ago
I had an iPhone 5s that I took to a local repair shop four times for a screen that was separating from the chassis. Four times they replaced the screen and within a week it started happening again. I fully support independent repair shops but I am willing to pay more for a quality job. Right now since Apple doesn’t certify third party repair shops, there’s just no way of knowing.
- Despegar 7y ago
  >Apple doesn’t certify third party repair shops That's exactly what the AASP program is.
  - briandear 7y ago
    https://support.apple.com/aasp-program https://support.apple.com/aasp-program
- altec3 7y ago
  I'm also willing to pay more for quality parts. I had one of those guys that drops by wherever you are and replaces your screen. The 3rd party screen he used was crap compared to the OEM screen. White balance was wrong and I couldn't view the phone with polarized sunglasses on.
  - dzhiurgis 7y ago
    > I couldn't view the phone with polarized sunglasses on. Same experience with $2 tempered glass screen protector I've got on yesterday. Also typing accuracy massively decreased.

rasz 7y ago

>beginning the process today of getting at least 1-2 people at all of our locations to be certified. so useful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6f_GUM1REg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6f_GUM1REg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1piWR4ZR7gE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1piWR4ZR7gE >We now stock iPhone batteries that have larger capacity than the original. (Yes, truly a larger capacity. We do 30,000+ repairs a year...we are not messing around with batteries that just say they have a larger capacity.) have you verified it by actually measuring? Can you show a discharge plot of such a battery new/~after a year next to Apple one? and the equipment used (constant load brand/model)? Its easy to say 'we send 30K units into the world and they seem fine'.

fillskills 7y ago

Knowing nothing about your business, I would humbly suggest not fighting on price but on other areas like speed, quality, customer service etc. The nearest apple store to me is 20 miles away. I would rather pay more money to have it fixed in a durable way closer to home. Just my 2 cents. Take them with a big grain of salt.

wh0knows 7y ago
I would say you are in the minority of consumers, most will just chase the lowest price. Additionally, most people will look at third-party repair shops as a way to get a discount from Apple's prices, not to pay more.
- lutorm 7y ago
  Someone just chasing the lowest price wouldn't have bought an Apple device to begin with ...
  - adt2bt 7y ago
    That is most certainly not a true assumption. There are quite a few people who stretch their funds to just buy an iPhone and need to penny pinch when something in it breaks. They're still a valuable market.
  - reciprocity 7y ago
    Normally I'd agree but having some familiarity in this area, my observation is that there is a subset of Apple users who buy Apple products who don't think about any post-purchase costs (as with many other products associated with the "higher end / luxury" image in the mind of the customer, I'd imagine). A customer doesn't expect to be quoted >$1000 to replace a damaged screen on an iMac machine, nor do they expect to be told that their SSD can't be replaced because Apple uses their own proprietary connector [1]. Tons of legitimate things to not like about Apple particularly if you care about the right to repair your own machine. [2] > When Apple released their first “blade” solid state drive in the Late 2010 release of the MacBook Air, they still used established mSATA interface technology, but ditched the traditional SATA and mSATA form factors found in most laptops at that time, instead opting for a custom connector that’s never been used by another manufacturer before or since. With the 2010 MacBook Air, Apple began a new trend of developing proprietary connectors and form factors that eventually pervaded the entire Apple lineup and ushered in an era of drives that, while easily replaceable, were not so easy to find. Many people incorrectly assume the connectors are one of the M.2 variants found in many PCs, but to date, Apple has still never used a standard M.2 connector. And unlike M.2 pin arrangements, Apple’s connectors were never given distinguishing names, so from this point on I’ll just refer to the connectors by their pin arrangements as described in the image below. [1] https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-ultimate-guide-to-specs-and-upgrades#hdr-6 https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-ultimate-gu... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronics_right_to_repair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronics_right_to_repair

megaremote 7y ago

> If you pay $149 to get your iPhone 8 screen replaced, but Apple charges us $135 for the screen, we can't realistically make any money off of that. I mean, ok. Doesn't that just mean you aren't charging enough? Is apple charging you a percent of what you charge?

dumbfoundded 7y ago
No, I'm guessing the author is referring to official Apple stores. So in this example, an official Apple store offers a screen replacement for $149. Apple then announces they will sell official parts to independent shops. Apple will then offer an official screen for $135, leaving no room for the independent shop to make money unless the repair shop charges $170 (made-up number for example). The benefit for Apple may be two-fold. Apple will go from having the most ridiculously overpriced repairs to being the cheapest for official parts. Apple may also then justify making it extremely difficult to use non-official parts (as they're already doing). If you're optimistic, you can say Apple is doing this to make the customer experience better to help improve their stagnant phone sales. If you're cynical you can say it's a clever plot to eliminate independent repairs and force people to go to Apple stores.
- Spivak 7y ago
  This seems weird to me because the official parts are better. If Apple was skimping out on their parts and selling them to shops at a huge premium then independent shops would have the advantage because they could repair your phone with higher quality 3rd-party parts for less. I might just not understand the market here but why would I assume that my local repair shop would be able to offer me labor at a cheaper rate than Apple's huge repair system?
  - nulbyte 7y ago
    I generally find third party repair is less in all sorts of cases. I'd sooner take my car to a mechanic I trust than an actual Hyundai shop where they'll tell me every expensive thing needs to be replaced. Just like a car manufacturer, Apple has incentive to inflate the prices, direct and third party, to their benefit and consumer detriment.

baybal2 7y ago

> We now stock iPhone batteries that have larger capacity than the original. (Yes, truly a larger capacity. We do 30,000+ repairs a year...we are not messing around with batteries that just say they have a larger capacity.) In light of this, you should check an absolutely bizarre legal case of Rolex vs Agarwal, where American judiciary basically said that trademark law trumps the first sale doctrine, and you have to remove all and every trademark from refurbished goods, on which any alteration is made. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9bfa5834-b8dc-475a-a4dc-171c25b0c062 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9bfa5834-b8dc...