4 ms·

Former Google employee says MeToo behavior 'institutionalized' at search giant

26 points by lladnar 7y ago

3xblah 7y ago
A dysfunctional legal department at Google. Who would have guessed? The founder/CEO Gates marrying someone in Marketing. The CEO of a software company I worked for having an affair with his secretary. This is what one had to tolerate to work in the software industry, and now has to tolerate to work in "tech". A complete absence of ethics and common sense. Pathetic. Other industries employing intelligent people are not like that, not to the same extent anyway.
- solipsism 7y ago
  Other industries employing intelligent people are not like that, not to the same extent anyway. Name one. The news here (if it's news to you) is that tech is not special like everyone once thought. Everyone thought tech was above that kind of thing. It turns out everyone in tech is just human, just like the rest of the world. The story here could not possible be more incredibly mundane and familiar and boring.
  - 3xblah 7y ago
    "Everyone thought tech was above that kind of thing." That is news to me. Based on experience with the software industry in the 1990's, there was no reason for me to think that companies like Google would be any different.
- cheez 7y ago
  Is this really how negatively you view the world? This is what I tell my kids about dating people at work. "You guys have spent the first few years of adult life getting to the same place. You probably have similar values as a result. You probably even have similar values in your upbringing. Now you want to tell me that you should ignore people who have similar values to you and go meet random people at a bar or otherwise make your romantic life more difficult? It sounds kind of stupid." I used to work in a family office where inter-employee relationships were more or less encouraged. And this was the reason. More to your point though, with men having affairs with women who are "lower in status" at the company, I refer you to the following research: https://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/attach/journals/aug16asrfeature.pdf https://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/attach/journals/a... TL;DR: main determinants of divorce are NOT sharing of household chores, or a wife's financial independence, it is the lack of a job for the husband. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/12/12/women-rate-the-strongest-men-as-the-most-attractive-study-finds/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2... TL;DR: women consider strong men more attractive These combine to show that women are generally more attracted to men who are "strong" and have a job. In the context of work, there is a social hierarchy of men by default and those higher up would be considered stronger. It's not like these women are "helpless" to choose their mates. They want strong men. Don't treat them like children.
- aaron695 7y ago
  > The CEO of a software company I worked for having an affair with his secretary. Why do you think you have a right to talk about other peoples sex lives? You even sound like you want to manage by force (hard or soft) other peoples sex lives within your moral code. Not sure of your point exactly but it seems to be to me a complete absence of ethics really. Quite a horrifying one in a world with a past and present of people being persecuted because of their sex lives.
- cafard 7y ago
  What industries have you worked in? Long ago I worked for a magazine company where the owner came in drunk one day and chased an editor around the layout room. A photographer who freelanced for the company had been a professor until he ran off with a nineteen-year-old student. I could go on.
scoobyyabbadoo 7y ago
Where do people find the time to fit all this sexual harassment on their schedules?? I feel like I'm always sprinting towards completing 3 different projects at any given time.
- RobLach 7y ago
  I guess that’s why you’re sprinting 3 instead of 2.
- chii 7y ago
  You might notice these harrassment cases are almost always someone high up in the org chart. They, I suspect, do not real work and thus have the time to conduct these activities.
luckylion 7y ago
What did she expect Google to do in her case? I understand she dated Drummond and had a consensual relationship with him, Google moved her to a different team (because there's a conflict of interest if somebody is the manager of their partner). After their relationship ended, it got ugly, but what is Google's supposed role in their custody battle? And how is that related to sexual harassment?
- pnw_hazor 7y ago
  Move the boss to another job, not the junior. At my firm, the partner is forced out if they are caught banging juniors or staff. In this case, moving the claimant to another position is text book retaliation because of the power mismatch.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    > In this case, moving the claimant to another position is text book retaliation because of the power mismatch. But the move happened before the break-up, so there really wasn't anything to retaliate for (other than "don't date within the company", which apparently isn't actually a problem at Google if what she writes is accurate). It's a very different story if the company got involved in the custody battle and took the exec's side, but I understand that's not what happened - when she was moved they were still on good terms. She quit shortly thereafter (because of the move), while still being on good terms with him.
    - blub 7y ago
      You misunderstood: the manager should be moved as punishment for them being stupid and screwing a subordinate. And yes, the move happens ASAP.
      - rdtwo 7y ago
        There is no legal reason that has to happen, in fact the subordinate can get moved to night shift for example and it’s still not considered retaliation.
blub 7y ago
Wow, if what she says in her original post is true, the guy is a regular sociopath. She claims he completely switched off his affection for the son and then used him as a tool against her. Then justified his philandering by giving Eric Schmidt as an example, and claiming it's his right as a powerful man. No wonder the company's abusing the privacy of everyone and was keen to support a totalitarian regime with such "leaders".
lmaophp 7y ago
Remember kids never date/marry into your workplace.

26 points by lladnar 7y ago

A dysfunctional legal department at Google. Who would have guessed? The founder/CEO Gates marrying someone in Marketing. The CEO of a software company I worked for having an affair with his secretary. This is what one had to tolerate to work in the software industry, and now has to tolerate to work in "tech". A complete absence of ethics and common sense. Pathetic. Other industries employing intelligent people are not like that, not to the same extent anyway.

solipsism 7y ago
Other industries employing intelligent people are not like that, not to the same extent anyway. Name one. The news here (if it's news to you) is that tech is not special like everyone once thought. Everyone thought tech was above that kind of thing. It turns out everyone in tech is just human, just like the rest of the world. The story here could not possible be more incredibly mundane and familiar and boring.
- 3xblah 7y ago
  "Everyone thought tech was above that kind of thing." That is news to me. Based on experience with the software industry in the 1990's, there was no reason for me to think that companies like Google would be any different.
cheez 7y ago
Is this really how negatively you view the world? This is what I tell my kids about dating people at work. "You guys have spent the first few years of adult life getting to the same place. You probably have similar values as a result. You probably even have similar values in your upbringing. Now you want to tell me that you should ignore people who have similar values to you and go meet random people at a bar or otherwise make your romantic life more difficult? It sounds kind of stupid." I used to work in a family office where inter-employee relationships were more or less encouraged. And this was the reason. More to your point though, with men having affairs with women who are "lower in status" at the company, I refer you to the following research: https://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/attach/journals/aug16asrfeature.pdf https://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/attach/journals/a... TL;DR: main determinants of divorce are NOT sharing of household chores, or a wife's financial independence, it is the lack of a job for the husband. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/12/12/women-rate-the-strongest-men-as-the-most-attractive-study-finds/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2... TL;DR: women consider strong men more attractive These combine to show that women are generally more attracted to men who are "strong" and have a job. In the context of work, there is a social hierarchy of men by default and those higher up would be considered stronger. It's not like these women are "helpless" to choose their mates. They want strong men. Don't treat them like children.
aaron695 7y ago
> The CEO of a software company I worked for having an affair with his secretary. Why do you think you have a right to talk about other peoples sex lives? You even sound like you want to manage by force (hard or soft) other peoples sex lives within your moral code. Not sure of your point exactly but it seems to be to me a complete absence of ethics really. Quite a horrifying one in a world with a past and present of people being persecuted because of their sex lives.
cafard 7y ago
What industries have you worked in? Long ago I worked for a magazine company where the owner came in drunk one day and chased an editor around the layout room. A photographer who freelanced for the company had been a professor until he ran off with a nineteen-year-old student. I could go on.

scoobyyabbadoo 7y ago

Where do people find the time to fit all this sexual harassment on their schedules?? I feel like I'm always sprinting towards completing 3 different projects at any given time.

RobLach 7y ago
I guess that’s why you’re sprinting 3 instead of 2.
chii 7y ago
You might notice these harrassment cases are almost always someone high up in the org chart. They, I suspect, do not real work and thus have the time to conduct these activities.

luckylion 7y ago

What did she expect Google to do in her case? I understand she dated Drummond and had a consensual relationship with him, Google moved her to a different team (because there's a conflict of interest if somebody is the manager of their partner). After their relationship ended, it got ugly, but what is Google's supposed role in their custody battle? And how is that related to sexual harassment?

pnw_hazor 7y ago
Move the boss to another job, not the junior. At my firm, the partner is forced out if they are caught banging juniors or staff. In this case, moving the claimant to another position is text book retaliation because of the power mismatch.
- luckylion 7y ago
  > In this case, moving the claimant to another position is text book retaliation because of the power mismatch. But the move happened before the break-up, so there really wasn't anything to retaliate for (other than "don't date within the company", which apparently isn't actually a problem at Google if what she writes is accurate). It's a very different story if the company got involved in the custody battle and took the exec's side, but I understand that's not what happened - when she was moved they were still on good terms. She quit shortly thereafter (because of the move), while still being on good terms with him.
  - blub 7y ago
    You misunderstood: the manager should be moved as punishment for them being stupid and screwing a subordinate. And yes, the move happens ASAP.
    - rdtwo 7y ago
      There is no legal reason that has to happen, in fact the subordinate can get moved to night shift for example and it’s still not considered retaliation.

blub 7y ago

Wow, if what she says in her original post is true, the guy is a regular sociopath. She claims he completely switched off his affection for the son and then used him as a tool against her. Then justified his philandering by giving Eric Schmidt as an example, and claiming it's his right as a powerful man. No wonder the company's abusing the privacy of everyone and was keen to support a totalitarian regime with such "leaders".

lmaophp 7y ago

Remember kids never date/marry into your workplace.