4 ms·

What externalities are they not paying for that other airlines are? Or is this a complain against all airlines?

avip 7y ago
He’s provably referring to ghg emissions, and sure no one pays that (it’s also not something we can conceivably pay for)
- isostatic 7y ago
  Quite possible for Europe to charge landing fees based on ghg emissions for all planes arriving/departing.
  - avip 7y ago
    I’m all for charging fees (especially when the chargee is not me), but fees don’t put CO2 back in the ground.
    - isostatic 7y ago
      The point is they act as a deterrent. The money raised can be used to mitigate the effects of the emissions.
  - benatkin 7y ago
    That would be great. I think if they were being aggressive enough, there would probably be less demand for airport expansion, because there would be fewer flights. I don't currently see any way to curtail the carbon from the airline industry that wouldn't involve raising the price so drastically that people would fly less often.
- zaphod4prez 7y ago
  Cap and trade does in fact make it so that polluters pay for ghg emissions. Why do you say that we can't "conceivably pay for"?
ArnoVW 7y ago
Well, the issues I'm aware of: Ryanair pay their staff poorly. And that is not cheap enough, so they also employ them under employment law from "cheap countries", to try and circumvent income taxes and other charges of the local countries they service. Ryanair demand subsidies from local governments to fly to far-flung airports. They can hold these governments hostage, as often the airports fail if they stop their service. Of course, this could be seen as simply "bad management" by our local governments. And to finish, though this is something that applies to all airlines : no VAT or "eco" tax, that the rest of us have to pay.
- refurb 7y ago
  People seem to be using the economic word “externalities” as “things I don’t like”.
  - epylar 7y ago
    That is what externality means -- "a side effect or consequence of an industrial or commercial activity that affects other parties without this being reflected in the cost of the goods or services involved." (unless this person is affecting the cost somehow as a result of this dislike) In a sense, economics is entirely about what people like and dislike.
    - nameismypw 7y ago
      No, an externality is an impact you create that isn't a part of your business model. It can be positive or negative. Most of the time people talk about negative externalities these days, especially with airlines, they're talking about profiting from climate change. (Although I don't know that Ryanair is worse than anyone else.)
    - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
      So if we priced airlines in regards to all of their externalities, they would have to pay for climate change but would get a portion of the all revenue derived by business trips (ie. the time saved traveling by air compared to other modes of transport and what the employees traveling would have been able to produce during that time). I wonder if they would end up better off under that system.

avip 7y ago

He’s provably referring to ghg emissions, and sure no one pays that (it’s also not something we can conceivably pay for)

isostatic 7y ago
Quite possible for Europe to charge landing fees based on ghg emissions for all planes arriving/departing.
- avip 7y ago
  I’m all for charging fees (especially when the chargee is not me), but fees don’t put CO2 back in the ground.
  - isostatic 7y ago
    The point is they act as a deterrent. The money raised can be used to mitigate the effects of the emissions.
- benatkin 7y ago
  That would be great. I think if they were being aggressive enough, there would probably be less demand for airport expansion, because there would be fewer flights. I don't currently see any way to curtail the carbon from the airline industry that wouldn't involve raising the price so drastically that people would fly less often.
zaphod4prez 7y ago
Cap and trade does in fact make it so that polluters pay for ghg emissions. Why do you say that we can't "conceivably pay for"?

ArnoVW 7y ago

Well, the issues I'm aware of: Ryanair pay their staff poorly. And that is not cheap enough, so they also employ them under employment law from "cheap countries", to try and circumvent income taxes and other charges of the local countries they service. Ryanair demand subsidies from local governments to fly to far-flung airports. They can hold these governments hostage, as often the airports fail if they stop their service. Of course, this could be seen as simply "bad management" by our local governments. And to finish, though this is something that applies to all airlines : no VAT or "eco" tax, that the rest of us have to pay.

refurb 7y ago
People seem to be using the economic word “externalities” as “things I don’t like”.
- epylar 7y ago
  That is what externality means -- "a side effect or consequence of an industrial or commercial activity that affects other parties without this being reflected in the cost of the goods or services involved." (unless this person is affecting the cost somehow as a result of this dislike) In a sense, economics is entirely about what people like and dislike.
  - nameismypw 7y ago
    No, an externality is an impact you create that isn't a part of your business model. It can be positive or negative. Most of the time people talk about negative externalities these days, especially with airlines, they're talking about profiting from climate change. (Although I don't know that Ryanair is worse than anyone else.)
  - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
    So if we priced airlines in regards to all of their externalities, they would have to pay for climate change but would get a portion of the all revenue derived by business trips (ie. the time saved traveling by air compared to other modes of transport and what the employees traveling would have been able to produce during that time). I wonder if they would end up better off under that system.