7 ms·
How is she a victim?
by gdy 7y ago
How is she a victim?
- roland35 7y agoWhenever there is a huge power mismatch in a relationship - that is generally not a situation where you can't say someone is not coerced in any way. Especially when the person in question is the president of the United States!
- gdy 7y agoWhy not? Women are naturally attracted to men in power, others seek career advantages over coworkers through sex with their superiors.
- Ididntdothis 7y agoThat’s why in most companies it’s absolutely verboten for a manager to have any kind of romantic/sexual relationship with subordinates. This should apply to the president too. Having sex with an intern is just shameful and shows serious character issues.
- gdy 7y agoThis doesn't make her a victim, just an accomplice.
- reroute1 7y agoStill not necessarily victimizing anyone though
- roland35 7y agoEasy enough to say if your boss is not hitting on you! If you turn him down it could hurt your career... These are the types of things most men don't have to worry about.
- gingabriska 7y ago>These are the types of things most men don't have to worry about. My co-worker went got me fired because I didn't accept her advances. It's a long story but she accused me of hitting on her, when in reality she was hitting on me and I was just ignoring her. A bunch of other guys supported her (idk why, I didn't know those guys much but they supported her even tho she is a pathological lier.)
- gdy 7y ago#BelieveHer
- gdy 7y agoYou seem to be under illusion that women are morally better than men. That's sexist and, worse, wrong.
- dennisgorelik 7y agoMen are sexually attracted to women. Following your line of reasoning women should NOT use that sexual attraction to their advantage and should not have sexual relationships with men.
- eloff 7y agoIt's also generally not a situation where you can say someone was coerced in any way without knowing more details. They are two adults engaging in consensual activity. I seriously doubt she thought there would be negative consequences if she said no. More likely she thought she might stand to gain something if she went along with it, but that's hardly coercion. I don't know, I have somewhat different thinking about sex in professional settings. I tend to see women as more capable of using their own judgement in those situations and less needing of protection. That's not always the case though, like with Harvey Weinstein. Edit: comment if you disagree, downvotes won't change my opinion.
- gdy 7y agoThe goal is to collapse your comment and prevent other people from seeing it, not to change your opinion.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- dragontamer 7y agoI think you'd have to be a 90s kid to really understand. It was the Lewinsky affair, or the Lewinsky scandal. Lewinsky's name was attached to the event more so than even Bill Clinton. As such, it was Lewinsky's name who appeared in songs, raps, TV shows, movies, etc. etc. to describe the political drama at the time. https://genius.com/Saint-jhn-monica-lewinsky-lyrics https://genius.com/Saint-jhn-monica-lewinsky-lyrics Lewinsky also had to describe her sexual acts to Congress, publicly aired across television networks nationwide, before the age of social media. Lewinsky basically got to experience the entire "social media outrage" machine before social media even existed. EDIT: Of course, Bill Clinton just lied about it, so there's the whole Lewinsky is just "trying to get attention" angle as well going on. It was Lewinsky's word vs the President's. It was very much a a big political drama at the time, and Lewinsky drew the short-stick of the arrangement as the 22-year old intern. And again: the powers that be were the Republicans pushing to impeach the President, and Clinton who was lying to defend himself. Etc. etc. It was a very big scandal, but I don't think Lewinsky actually did anything wrong throughout it all. But her name was unfairly attached to the whole event.
- dmix 7y agoGot any examples of songs from the 1990s? That songs seems to be from this year.
- dragontamer 7y agoHmm, I just searched for the first song. I'm going to fully admit that I'm bad with music and don't listen to much. But 100% Lewinsky's name was used in a lot of stuff. Instead of listing lyrics myself... I searched around for maybe an article + writer who is better than me at this sort of thing. This article may be what you're looking for: https://www.thecut.com/2015/03/every-rap-song-that-mentions-monica-lewinsky.html https://www.thecut.com/2015/03/every-rap-song-that-mentions-...
- randogogogo 7y agoShe's joked on Twitter when people don't know who she is that her name has appeared in something like 400 songs.
- scarmig 7y agoArguably because of the power imbalance between intern and President. But definitely because of how Ken Starr and the national media treated her.
- gdy 7y agoThe comment was about her being a victim of Clinton, not media.
- Ididntdothis 7y agoBoth.
- pbhjpbhj 7y agoHa, in which direction was the power imbalance -- [old] men will risk their status and livelihood for a "pretty girl", and many a woman has used that to wield power over even the most politically powerful man.
- rifung 7y agoSome would argue that she was coerced because of the vast power difference in their respective positions. It's part of the reason you aren't supposed to have relationships with someone you manage.
- ikeyany 7y agoThen it's not a stretch then to say all workplace romances between staff members and the people under them are coercive.
- drblast 7y agoYep. It's not a stretch at all. In the military it's strictly forbidden and there are rules in place in case two people accidentally fall in love where there's a power imbalance. Sex/romance with a subordinate in any organization is such a bad idea for so many reasons. Possibility of coercion is one, favoritism and dissent among other subordinates is another.
- wizzairflyer 7y agoI agree on the idea, but where to draw the line? A direct report is definitely a bad idea, but what if it's someone who reports to one of your reports? Or someone who report to another manager? etc. At some point it should become ok. Completely forbidding people to find romance at the workplace would make it feel so gray, especially given the time you sink in it.
- gdy 7y agoPeople argue all kinds of things, it doesn't make them all true
- tbyehl 7y agoYou can debate if Lewinsky was a victim of Clinton but she absolutely was a victim of Linda Tripp, who had her own vendetta against the Clintons. Tripp manipulated her, secretly recorded their conversations, lied, betrayed her confidences, and served her up to the machinery that was working to take down Clinton.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Ididntdothis 7y agoTotally agree. From whatever I have read Tripp was the real villain there. What kind of person behaves like that?
- gdy 7y agoI almost agree, but Tripp didn't put that blue dress in the freezer.
- tbyehl 7y agoWhen Lewinsky told Tripp that she wanted to have the dress cleaned, Tripp manipulated her into preserving it.