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Welcome to the private free-market Stasi. You can try to opt out by not using Facebook or Ring cameras, but your friends and neighbors opt you in without your

Welcome to the private free-market Stasi. You can try to opt out by not using Facebook or Ring cameras, but your friends and neighbors opt you in without your permission.

yters 7y ago
Indeed. Mass surveillance. Police brutality. Weapons confiscation. Seems to be a pattern. Both sides of the political spectrum are enabling different portions of this pattern.
- inscionent 7y ago
  Who is confiscating weapons?
  - crazy1van 7y ago
    Sometimes it's called a "mandatory buy-back" like in Australia.
  - cc439 7y ago
    The police via Red Flag laws which are incredibly easy to abuse.
    - DiseasedBadger 7y ago
      It's worrying that Hacker News isn't mature enough to admit to the Dayton Ohio shooter's politics and affiliations. I don't think HN, as a population, are on the side of democracy, liberalism, or freedom.
    - inscionent 7y ago
      The police are using red flag laws to seize weapons because the 'private free-market Stasi' told them to? Red flag laws are mostly used to prevent suicides and domestic violence. They are formal proceedings and due process of law. If the problem is with the law, organize and change it.
      - rbritton 7y ago
        There is no due process. Due process would be (1) a hearing prior to your property being confiscated; and (2) the ability to face your accuser. None of these happen with any existing red flag laws and violate multiple items in the Bill of Rights. Additionally, in most states' implementations of these laws, there are no codified repercussions for false reportings. It's effectively legalized SWATting. They have led to the death of one man in Maryland [0] and an erroneous confiscation of one man in Florida [1] so far. [0]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/maryland-officers-serving-red-flag-gun-removal-order-fatally-shoot-armed-man/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/maryland-officers-serving-red-f... [1]: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2019/08/19/red-flag-law-failure-guy-is-stripped-of-his-gunsbecause-of-another-mans-criminal-activity-n2551921 https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2019/08/19/red-fla...
        LorenPechtel 7y ago
        That first one sounds like someone that should have been red flagged--I wouldn't call that a failure of the system. The police were there, he had put the gun down and then picked it up again. Yeah, family members said he wouldn't hurt anyone. It's very common for family members to side with abusers over victims. The second, however, is the sort of problem that plague red flag laws.
      - mieseratte 7y ago
        > They are formal proceedings and due process of law. A number of states involve no due-process prior to confiscation and require you to hire an attorney and file suit if your initial request for return of property are denied. Having been "red flagged" by a vindictive ex, and in a "Red State" too boot, this is no joke.
      - LorenPechtel 7y ago
        You have fallen for the hype. Red flag laws are a very bad implementation of a good idea.
  - DiseasedBadger 7y ago
    That's the law that every US politician started talking about, after that leftist socialist kid shotup Ohio.
- pjc50 7y ago
  One of those things is not like the others.
  - mieseratte 7y ago
    What's not like the others? I see a list of common activities of government overreach.
- DiseasedBadger 7y ago
  Hence the laws that every US politician started talking about, after that leftist socialist kid shotup Ohio.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
catacombs 7y ago
> Stasi Did you know the Stasi was the largest spy organization in modern history? More than 50,000 people worked for them. In a group of 12 people, two to three are often informants.
- panarky 7y ago
  In today's private free-market Stasi, you'd be lucky if a group of 12 people has two or three who are not informants.
  - refurb 7y ago
    Your hyperbole really undercuts your (reasonable) argument.
    - Dirlewanger 7y ago
      Absolutely nothing hyperbole about it. You haven't been paying attention if you think it is. Our phones have numerous parties (besides the telcos) all slurping up their own version of data about our lives. We have 0 ability to opt out of any of it. Retorting with "just don't use a mobile phone" is fine, but it's also not practical. Why should we be subject to all this surveillance? Go ahead and continue to downvote me, you fucking corporate shills. The truth hurts, I know.
      - dang 7y ago
        > Go ahead and continue to downvote me, you fucking corporate shills. The truth hurts, I know. We've had to ask you multiple times before to stop breaking the site guidelines. If you keep doing it, we're going to have to ban you. I don't want to ban you, so would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post in the intended spirit? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - authoritarian 7y ago
      It's still reasonable, because he isn't talking about traditional spies. The majority of the population seems to be plugged into Facebook, Google, and other companies that are essentially surveillance organizations. By interacting with people who have no concern for their own privacy, you will end up being surveilled as well. If you are a contact in their phone or email that will be harvested, if you go to their house and they have smart devices you will likely be recorded (audio and or video), if you go anywhere with them there will be location data, if they take and post any pictures or videos with you that's another source of data. He is correct that the majority of the population are now "informants", although they are informing for companies like Facebook rathter than directly for the government

Welcome to the private free-market Stasi. You can try to opt out by not using Facebook or Ring cameras, but your friends and neighbors opt you in without your permission.

yters 7y ago

Indeed. Mass surveillance. Police brutality. Weapons confiscation. Seems to be a pattern. Both sides of the political spectrum are enabling different portions of this pattern.

inscionent 7y ago
Who is confiscating weapons?
- crazy1van 7y ago
  Sometimes it's called a "mandatory buy-back" like in Australia.
- cc439 7y ago
  The police via Red Flag laws which are incredibly easy to abuse.
  - DiseasedBadger 7y ago
    It's worrying that Hacker News isn't mature enough to admit to the Dayton Ohio shooter's politics and affiliations. I don't think HN, as a population, are on the side of democracy, liberalism, or freedom.
  - inscionent 7y ago
    The police are using red flag laws to seize weapons because the 'private free-market Stasi' told them to? Red flag laws are mostly used to prevent suicides and domestic violence. They are formal proceedings and due process of law. If the problem is with the law, organize and change it.
    - rbritton 7y ago
      There is no due process. Due process would be (1) a hearing prior to your property being confiscated; and (2) the ability to face your accuser. None of these happen with any existing red flag laws and violate multiple items in the Bill of Rights. Additionally, in most states' implementations of these laws, there are no codified repercussions for false reportings. It's effectively legalized SWATting. They have led to the death of one man in Maryland [0] and an erroneous confiscation of one man in Florida [1] so far. [0]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/maryland-officers-serving-red-flag-gun-removal-order-fatally-shoot-armed-man/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/maryland-officers-serving-red-f... [1]: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2019/08/19/red-flag-law-failure-guy-is-stripped-of-his-gunsbecause-of-another-mans-criminal-activity-n2551921 https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2019/08/19/red-fla...
      - LorenPechtel 7y ago
        That first one sounds like someone that should have been red flagged--I wouldn't call that a failure of the system. The police were there, he had put the gun down and then picked it up again. Yeah, family members said he wouldn't hurt anyone. It's very common for family members to side with abusers over victims. The second, however, is the sort of problem that plague red flag laws.
    - mieseratte 7y ago
      > They are formal proceedings and due process of law. A number of states involve no due-process prior to confiscation and require you to hire an attorney and file suit if your initial request for return of property are denied. Having been "red flagged" by a vindictive ex, and in a "Red State" too boot, this is no joke.
    - LorenPechtel 7y ago
      You have fallen for the hype. Red flag laws are a very bad implementation of a good idea.
- DiseasedBadger 7y ago
  That's the law that every US politician started talking about, after that leftist socialist kid shotup Ohio.
pjc50 7y ago
One of those things is not like the others.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  What's not like the others? I see a list of common activities of government overreach.
DiseasedBadger 7y ago
Hence the laws that every US politician started talking about, after that leftist socialist kid shotup Ohio.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

catacombs 7y ago

> Stasi Did you know the Stasi was the largest spy organization in modern history? More than 50,000 people worked for them. In a group of 12 people, two to three are often informants.

panarky 7y ago
In today's private free-market Stasi, you'd be lucky if a group of 12 people has two or three who are not informants.
- refurb 7y ago
  Your hyperbole really undercuts your (reasonable) argument.
  - Dirlewanger 7y ago
    Absolutely nothing hyperbole about it. You haven't been paying attention if you think it is. Our phones have numerous parties (besides the telcos) all slurping up their own version of data about our lives. We have 0 ability to opt out of any of it. Retorting with "just don't use a mobile phone" is fine, but it's also not practical. Why should we be subject to all this surveillance? Go ahead and continue to downvote me, you fucking corporate shills. The truth hurts, I know.
    - dang 7y ago
      > Go ahead and continue to downvote me, you fucking corporate shills. The truth hurts, I know. We've had to ask you multiple times before to stop breaking the site guidelines. If you keep doing it, we're going to have to ban you. I don't want to ban you, so would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post in the intended spirit? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - authoritarian 7y ago
    It's still reasonable, because he isn't talking about traditional spies. The majority of the population seems to be plugged into Facebook, Google, and other companies that are essentially surveillance organizations. By interacting with people who have no concern for their own privacy, you will end up being surveilled as well. If you are a contact in their phone or email that will be harvested, if you go to their house and they have smart devices you will likely be recorded (audio and or video), if you go anywhere with them there will be location data, if they take and post any pictures or videos with you that's another source of data. He is correct that the majority of the population are now "informants", although they are informing for companies like Facebook rathter than directly for the government