5 ms·

If I eat an apple, am I eating vegan food? If you call anything that isn't carnivore food as "vegan" food, then you're labelling like 90% of our food as "vegan

by jbob2000 7y ago

If I eat an apple, am I eating vegan food? If you call anything that isn't carnivore food as "vegan" food, then you're labelling like 90% of our food as "vegan". That's obviously ridiculous, so I think it's more accurate to call food "vegan" when it's being eaten by someone who is respecting vegan principles. What I mean to say is that I think "vegan food" is defined by the eater, not the makeup of the food. Edit: I would like to understand what I could have changed about my comment if you felt it did not contribute to the discussion.

tobr 7y ago
Is it Greek food only if it’s eaten by a Greek? Is an apple Greek food if there are apples in Greece?
TotempaaltJ 7y ago
Yeah, I'd say an apple is vegan food. A lot of snacks and things _are_ vegan (or vegetarian). The interesting thing is vegan/vegetarian _full meals_, which I'd guess is a much lower percentage.
mumblemumble 7y ago
> If I eat an apple, am I eating vegan food? Well, apples are plants, and the adjective "vegan", when applied to foods, basically just means "plants and fungi", so, by definition, yes. Trivially yes. But an apple isn't a very interesting case. What's more interesting is what TFA is talking about: an increase in orders of entire meals that contain no animal products from restaurants. It wasn't that long ago that it wasn't even possible to do such a thing at the vast majority of restaurants in Western countries. It may not indicate an increase in the number of people who eat mostly or only vegan food, but it certainly indicates changing attitudes about what qualifies as a proper meal.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
I think you have it backwards. Vegan food is meant to show not only is it free of meat, but that it's also free of animal ingredients that might not be shown on the menu, such as butter. An apple would be suitable for a vegan, so could be labelled (needlessly) as such. A vegan is one who eats food according to those standards. If a takeaway menu picks out those options that are entirely meat free, and also free of animal fats etc. They'll label that as vegan regardless of knowing or declining if a non-vegan orders it. Maybe they just like that dish. I quite often do order vegan dishes, Indian takeaways especially, despite remaining a meat eater overall.
- chosenbreed37 7y ago
  Slightly tangential but I noticed that the one of the cleaning fluids in the bathroom said "Suitable for vegans"...:-)
  - astura 7y ago
    Many (but not all) dietary vegans are also holistic vegans, meaning they choose cleaning products, clothing, beauty products without animal ingredients and aren't tested on animals.
  - zrobotics 7y ago
    Same thing as 'vegan' imitation leather products: a vegan doesn't intend on eating their wallet or belt, but they won't buy genuine leather goods for ethical reasons. Thus, a vegan belt. For the same reason, a vegan would avoid animal fat based soaps. Still humorous though, reminds me of the bleach drinking memes.
    - jl6 7y ago
      I genuinely expect Apple to sell an upcoming iPhone as vegan.
      - zrobotics 7y ago
        Considering all the different chemicals used in its manufacture, it is entirely possible that an iPhone isn't vegan. Depending on how strict you are, plastic isn't vegan. The crude oil used could be considered an animal byproduct, as it is possibly derived from prehistoric animals ;)
emmp 7y ago
It sure is. I wouldn't call it a satisfying meal though. It's not particularly meaningful to anyone to say that an apple on a restaurant menu is vegan (if such a restaurant even exists)
tekkk 7y ago
So if a carnivore orders vegan food at restaurant, it stops being vegan? Well does that make sense? In my opinion if restaurant offers only apples as the "vegan option" i think it's correct to call it vegan food. But since i guess vegan is not well defined property of food, as it's more commonly used to describe the people practising veganism, i'd draw the line in "food served or prepared that adheres vegan principles".
mytailorisrich 7y ago
To me, 'vegan food' is a dish that would normally contain animal products and has been contrived to remove them.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  It’s interesting, under your definition whether something is vegan depends on who is making it. If your family just happens to make a 4-bean salad without meat, then for you that’s omnivorous. If I make the exact same salad, but my family growing up typically would have put bacon in it, then that same salad becomes “vegan food” because for me it’s a contrivance. It’s a relativistic definition of what’s vegan and what’s not.
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    "Vegan" refers to people, not food. Food is only "suitable for vegans". There are many, many traditional dishes that do not contain meat or even any animal products. I see no reason to suddenly label them "vegetarian" or "vegan". But when people work hard to make a burger without any animal products then it does make some sense to call the result "vegan food" in that it was made specifically to suit vegan people.
    - okmokmz 7y ago
      > "Vegan" refers to people, not food. Food is only "suitable for vegans". Partially correct. Vegan, the noun, refers to a person who does not eat or use animal products. Vegan, the adjective, means using or containing no animal products. >There are many, many traditional dishes that do not contain meat or even any animal products. I see no reason to suddenly label them "vegetarian" or "vegan". They are vegan by definition >But when people work hard to make a burger without any animal products then it does make some sense to call the result "vegan food" in that it was made specifically to suit vegan people. Perhaps that is your modern interpretation of what "vegan" means, but it is not accurate. Hummus, for example, is a vegan dish regardless of having never contained animal products, and regardless of whether or not the person eating it is vegan.
okmokmz 7y ago
>If I eat an apple, am I eating vegan food? Unless that apple is an animal byproduct, yes, technically it is vegan (as are all other fruits and vegetables). Realistically though, no one calls single pieces of fruits and vegetables vegan, it's more commonly used to refer to dishes >I think it's more accurate to call food "vegan" when it's being eaten by someone who is respecting vegan principles. So if I order and eat Thai food it is American food because I'm American, but if I was Thai it would be Thai food? >What I mean to say is that I think "vegan food" is defined by the eater, not the makeup of the food. By definition, it is defined by the makeup of the food
jobigoud 7y ago
> What I mean to say is that I think "vegan food" is defined by the eater, not the makeup of the food. A lot of the debate under your comment is stemming from the difference between vegan people and vegan food. In French we have three words. Vegatarien, Vegetalien, Vegan. Vegetalien means vegan but it's only used in the context of what food the person eats. While vegan was more about the lifestyle and not wearing leather/fur, etc. Although recently the term vegan is used for food more and more, it's simpler.

tobr 7y ago

Is it Greek food only if it’s eaten by a Greek? Is an apple Greek food if there are apples in Greece?

TotempaaltJ 7y ago

Yeah, I'd say an apple is vegan food. A lot of snacks and things _are_ vegan (or vegetarian). The interesting thing is vegan/vegetarian _full meals_, which I'd guess is a much lower percentage.

mumblemumble 7y ago

> If I eat an apple, am I eating vegan food? Well, apples are plants, and the adjective "vegan", when applied to foods, basically just means "plants and fungi", so, by definition, yes. Trivially yes. But an apple isn't a very interesting case. What's more interesting is what TFA is talking about: an increase in orders of entire meals that contain no animal products from restaurants. It wasn't that long ago that it wasn't even possible to do such a thing at the vast majority of restaurants in Western countries. It may not indicate an increase in the number of people who eat mostly or only vegan food, but it certainly indicates changing attitudes about what qualifies as a proper meal.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

I think you have it backwards. Vegan food is meant to show not only is it free of meat, but that it's also free of animal ingredients that might not be shown on the menu, such as butter. An apple would be suitable for a vegan, so could be labelled (needlessly) as such. A vegan is one who eats food according to those standards. If a takeaway menu picks out those options that are entirely meat free, and also free of animal fats etc. They'll label that as vegan regardless of knowing or declining if a non-vegan orders it. Maybe they just like that dish. I quite often do order vegan dishes, Indian takeaways especially, despite remaining a meat eater overall.

chosenbreed37 7y ago
Slightly tangential but I noticed that the one of the cleaning fluids in the bathroom said "Suitable for vegans"...:-)
- astura 7y ago
  Many (but not all) dietary vegans are also holistic vegans, meaning they choose cleaning products, clothing, beauty products without animal ingredients and aren't tested on animals.
- zrobotics 7y ago
  Same thing as 'vegan' imitation leather products: a vegan doesn't intend on eating their wallet or belt, but they won't buy genuine leather goods for ethical reasons. Thus, a vegan belt. For the same reason, a vegan would avoid animal fat based soaps. Still humorous though, reminds me of the bleach drinking memes.
  - jl6 7y ago
    I genuinely expect Apple to sell an upcoming iPhone as vegan.
    - zrobotics 7y ago
      Considering all the different chemicals used in its manufacture, it is entirely possible that an iPhone isn't vegan. Depending on how strict you are, plastic isn't vegan. The crude oil used could be considered an animal byproduct, as it is possibly derived from prehistoric animals ;)

emmp 7y ago

It sure is. I wouldn't call it a satisfying meal though. It's not particularly meaningful to anyone to say that an apple on a restaurant menu is vegan (if such a restaurant even exists)

tekkk 7y ago

So if a carnivore orders vegan food at restaurant, it stops being vegan? Well does that make sense? In my opinion if restaurant offers only apples as the "vegan option" i think it's correct to call it vegan food. But since i guess vegan is not well defined property of food, as it's more commonly used to describe the people practising veganism, i'd draw the line in "food served or prepared that adheres vegan principles".

mytailorisrich 7y ago

To me, 'vegan food' is a dish that would normally contain animal products and has been contrived to remove them.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
erikpukinskis 7y ago
It’s interesting, under your definition whether something is vegan depends on who is making it. If your family just happens to make a 4-bean salad without meat, then for you that’s omnivorous. If I make the exact same salad, but my family growing up typically would have put bacon in it, then that same salad becomes “vegan food” because for me it’s a contrivance. It’s a relativistic definition of what’s vegan and what’s not.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  "Vegan" refers to people, not food. Food is only "suitable for vegans". There are many, many traditional dishes that do not contain meat or even any animal products. I see no reason to suddenly label them "vegetarian" or "vegan". But when people work hard to make a burger without any animal products then it does make some sense to call the result "vegan food" in that it was made specifically to suit vegan people.
  - okmokmz 7y ago
    > "Vegan" refers to people, not food. Food is only "suitable for vegans". Partially correct. Vegan, the noun, refers to a person who does not eat or use animal products. Vegan, the adjective, means using or containing no animal products. >There are many, many traditional dishes that do not contain meat or even any animal products. I see no reason to suddenly label them "vegetarian" or "vegan". They are vegan by definition >But when people work hard to make a burger without any animal products then it does make some sense to call the result "vegan food" in that it was made specifically to suit vegan people. Perhaps that is your modern interpretation of what "vegan" means, but it is not accurate. Hummus, for example, is a vegan dish regardless of having never contained animal products, and regardless of whether or not the person eating it is vegan.

okmokmz 7y ago

>If I eat an apple, am I eating vegan food? Unless that apple is an animal byproduct, yes, technically it is vegan (as are all other fruits and vegetables). Realistically though, no one calls single pieces of fruits and vegetables vegan, it's more commonly used to refer to dishes >I think it's more accurate to call food "vegan" when it's being eaten by someone who is respecting vegan principles. So if I order and eat Thai food it is American food because I'm American, but if I was Thai it would be Thai food? >What I mean to say is that I think "vegan food" is defined by the eater, not the makeup of the food. By definition, it is defined by the makeup of the food

jobigoud 7y ago

> What I mean to say is that I think "vegan food" is defined by the eater, not the makeup of the food. A lot of the debate under your comment is stemming from the difference between vegan people and vegan food. In French we have three words. Vegatarien, Vegetalien, Vegan. Vegetalien means vegan but it's only used in the context of what food the person eats. While vegan was more about the lifestyle and not wearing leather/fur, etc. Although recently the term vegan is used for food more and more, it's simpler.