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Just an anecdote. I went to Beijing to watch the Olympics while I was in high school. During a volleyball game, I sat next to a local Chinese boy about my age a
by dumbfoundded 7y ago
Just an anecdote. I went to Beijing to watch the Olympics while I was in high school. During a volleyball game, I sat next to a local Chinese boy about my age and started talking with him.
Apparently, at some Chinese schools, they give all of the students an English name. Kind of like how American schools give you a Spanish name for Spanish class. His name was Adolf. I asked him if he knew any other famous Adolf's. Of course, he did.
I asked him about why the Chinese cheer so fervently against the Americans, even when they're not playing the Chinese. He said it was because Americans were friends with the Japanese. To play devil's advocate, I told him that the Americans fought the Japanese in WW2, significantly helping China, and dropped nukes on the Japanese. He told me it wasn't enough, the US should've eliminated Japan from the map.
I don't think my sample size is representative but I think it's a warning of how strong nationalism can be. In the US, we have relatively free flows of information and we still have a dangerous nationalist movement. I imagine it's much stronger in China where the government actively encourages it.
- devoply 7y agoJust watched this which calls CPC a mafia... Interview with Miles Kwok by Kyle Bass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cwXifDaCjE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cwXifDaCjE
- verroq 7y agoThe anti-American sentiment draws from the Boxer Rebellion and the Eight Nation Alliance that sacked the Summer Palace as well as America's support of the KMT during WW2. In the eyes of the Chinese, America eliminating Japan in WW2 doesn't absolve itself of its past grievances (nor its present ones i.e. playing world police and inserting itself into the South China Sea disputes).
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoAmerica supported both the KMT and communists, not to mention the soviets, during WW2. They didn’t really fall out with each other until the Korean War (at the start of which they decided to fully support the KMT after giving up on them after the war).
- toxik 7y agoCould you imagine if China was under democratic rule, like Taiwan today? It really gives me a sinking feeling knowing that there was a better option, and it might have won if the Japanese hadn't attacked China, and if the Soviet hadn't been allowed to fuel the CCP. Such a historical misstep.
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoChiang Kai Shek was no saint, he wasn’t pro democracy. USA pressure on Taiwan had a lot to do with how the island evolved after Chiang’s death (and his son happened to be a bit better than dad). Korea had a similar evolution, actually. The soviets were involved in fueling both the CPC and KMT, actually, in the early days anyways. The KMT even got lots of help from Germany before they made an alliance with Japan. While China would definitely be different, it’s not clear it would have been better.
- kccqzy 7y agoIn contrast I really think the root is an anti-Japanese sentiment instead of an anti-American one. For many centuries Japan had been considered a poorer and less powerful empire than the Chinese empire. But the Japanese had a successful Meiji restoration and surpassed China in industrial production and weaponry in the late 19th century. The Chinese lost a war to Japan. They still feel resented. The anti-Japanese sentiment goes further than the WWII.
- verroq 7y agoAnti-Japan is more about the atrocities committed during WW2. Anti-America is more against the imperialism China experienced during the "century of humiliation".
- apexalpha 7y ago>Apparently, at some Chinese schools, they give all of the students an English name. Kind of like how American schools give you a Spanish name for Spanish class. His name was Adolf. I asked him if he knew any other famous Adolf's. Of course, he did. I spent some time teaching English at a Chinese university and this just brought me back. You see you can't just make up new words in Chinese like you can in Latin based languages. In English I could type "menseratanos" here and even though you have never seen it you can (at least try) to pronounce it based on the individual letters. But Chinese doesn't work this way since you can't make up a new Chinese sign and just expect people to know what it represents. So to create names Chinese people combine existing words and end up with names native Americans used to have: "Grey wind", "Yellow sun", "Good Fortune" etc... Of course these all have more meaning to them in Chinese but you get the point. And therefor it is common to let Chinese people pick their own name for English class and... it is absolutely hilarious. Since they usually have as little exposure to the Western world as someone in the West has to the Chinese you will be left with a class named, and these are all real examples from my classes: - Beyonce (for a boy). - Vladimir - Putin - Vladimir Putin (would refuse to be called Vladimir or Putin). - Fog (as in tiny water droplets) - Adolf Hitler - Justin Bieber - Michael Jackson - Morning (the time of day) etc.. The Adolf Hitler kid I actually told to change it. When asked why he picked it he said: "he is great king". (after asking: he meant 'conqueror'). All in all living in China for a while is a fantastic experience.
- 5etho 7y agoThis adolf hitler kid got me good, it was some rular area? Do this kid have any grasp of western culture?
- apexalpha 7y agoSichuan, Chengdu. Not rural but inland. Their grasp of Western culture came mostly from Hollywood, Music, Basketball and the news. I actually debated it with other English teachers and some also had Adolf Hitler in their classes. So they might just be trolling their teacher, but many sincerely don't have the same ideas as Western people. They know Hitler because it is mentioned in History classes during WW2. But they definitely don't see him as the apex figure of all evil like people in the West.
- yodsanklai 7y ago> I don't think my sample size is representative but I think it's a warning of how strong nationalism can be Unfortunately, that's the kind of things you can hear anywhere in the world. > I imagine it's much stronger in China where the government actively encourages it. I wonder... I have a colleague of mine who grew up in a communism country. According to him, most people back then didn't really buy into government propaganda, which contrasts with modern democracies which rely on more subtle propaganda (Chomsky's "media control"). I really have no idea, it could well be that Chinese are on average less nationalist/warmonging than Americans for instance.
- inimino 7y ago> on average less nationalist/warmonging than Americans Less warmongering on average, but get them on the topic of Japan and things change. Vastly more nationalistic on average, and with a much larger population that is way more homogeneous in their politics and nationalism than you've ever seen anywhere in the US. Source: seven years in China.
- mcny 7y agoI got the same anti Japan vibe talking to thirty plus years old postgraduates from China but as I expressed to them I was hopeful that the younger generation would be kinder. Doesn't look like that's happening soon enough.
- codeswap 7y agoYou have to take into account that Japan was the ISIS of Asia. Bayoneting babies, sex slave, medical experiments on humans. In South Korea still dislike of Japan is greater than North Korea. And Japan is got off mostly free after ww2 unlike the German trials
- joyeuse6701 7y agoSure, there were no public trials to provide a catharsis for the crimes against humanity, still though, two atomic bombs on major cities vaporizing babies, men and women alike doesn't sound like 'mostly free'.
- scohesc 7y agoSometimes you just have to send a very strongly worded message in the form of nuclear fallout in order to get the point across. I don't think the Japanese would have given up as easily if a not insignificant portion of their country wasn't turned to glass in an instant.
- dumbfoundded 7y agoYeah, and it took 2 nukes! Plus the firebombing which killed just as many people.
- turk73 7y agoPretty sure Japan received enough punishment for its actions back then. It was a brutal war. Interesting historical note: Just after Japan surrendered, the British re-armed their Japanese prisoners in French Indochina (today's Viet Nam, etc) to fight the Viet Mihn. So the baby-bayonetters fought alongside British troops they had recently fought against in Burma. The Japanese troops gave a good account of themselves, too.
- avcdsuia 7y agoYou know the main purpose of nationalism in China is to justify goverment decrees right? They don't hate other countries by heart spontaneously, not like those in the US.