4 ms·

The problem with diversity programs in education is that they are half baked, if you wanted to truly solve the root causes of racial discrepancies in education

The problem with diversity programs in education is that they are half baked, if you wanted to truly solve the root causes of racial discrepancies in education you'd need reform at the elementary school level. School districts are too tightly coupled with housing for stakeholders to advocate for reform at that level. If you design programs that try to tackle these discrepancies without aiming at the root cause you get mishaps like this.

mises 7y ago
How do you propose to decouple elementary schools and houses? Busing? We saw what kind of a disaster that was [0] [1]. Personally, I think on-line schooling is a better option. Internet is becoming broadly available, and it seems that serving every one the same curriculum (albeit with some adaptivity to what a student is doing better or worse on) seems the most viable way to make sure each student gets the same education, I would think. Then maybe provide a smaller staff at local schools with tutoring and counseling. Online education does a good job [2], and has had good results, even in the third world [3] [4]. It of course needs further development, but I see no reason why it couldn't be a strong contender to mitigate this issue. [0]: https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/02/how-the-lefts-embrace-of-busing-hurt-the-cause-of-integration.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/02/how-the-lefts-embra... [1]: https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/10/06/496411024/why-busing-didnt-end-school-segregation https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/10/06/496411024/why-bus... [2]: http://news.mit.edu/2014/study-shows-online-courses-effective-0924 http://news.mit.edu/2014/study-shows-online-courses-effectiv... [3]: https://borgenproject.org/online-education-in-developing-countries/ https://borgenproject.org/online-education-in-developing-cou... [4]: https://www.onlinecoursereport.com/democratizing-education-online-education-and-the-developing-world/ https://www.onlinecoursereport.com/democratizing-education-o...
- nradov 7y ago
  Online schooling only works for motivated, disciplined students. Most children need to have a qualified teacher in the same room in order to learn effectively. That especially applies to subjects that students don't enjoy, but which they need to learn in order to function in society.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - mises 7y ago
    Maybe the question we ought to be asking, then, is, "Why are our youth not motivated to study?" This seems to be true across all background, excepting one: first-generation Americans. I was certainly motivated to study, even things I didn't like. I knew it was my path to a better life. The "second-generation problem" is well-documented [0], and so the obvious question is: what can we do to inculcate that same motivation in our youth? To make them self-directed? On that, I am not sure. [0]: https://dyske.com/paper/1258 https://dyske.com/paper/1258, https://www.jstor.org/stable/2547418 https://www.jstor.org/stable/2547418
- skinnymuch 7y ago
  As a teen and kid I had huge self esteem and shyness issues. I’d have basically no friends (at age 18) if I did online school.
malandrew 7y ago
> if you wanted to truly solve the root causes of racial discrepancies in education you'd need reform at the elementary school level. You'd probably also have to reform family life for many individuals as well, not just elementary school. Are they from a single parent household? Do they have books at home? Do their parents read to them? Do their parents help out with homework and make sure their children are doing their homework? School is not the only aspect contributing to someone's education. Parental involvement is also a huge factor and cultural differences contribute here. See my previous comment about the importance of culture and values and their impact on success here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20810810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20810810

mises 7y ago

How do you propose to decouple elementary schools and houses? Busing? We saw what kind of a disaster that was [0] [1]. Personally, I think on-line schooling is a better option. Internet is becoming broadly available, and it seems that serving every one the same curriculum (albeit with some adaptivity to what a student is doing better or worse on) seems the most viable way to make sure each student gets the same education, I would think. Then maybe provide a smaller staff at local schools with tutoring and counseling. Online education does a good job [2], and has had good results, even in the third world [3] [4]. It of course needs further development, but I see no reason why it couldn't be a strong contender to mitigate this issue. [0]: https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/02/how-the-lefts-embrace-of-busing-hurt-the-cause-of-integration.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/02/how-the-lefts-embra... [1]: https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/10/06/496411024/why-busing-didnt-end-school-segregation https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/10/06/496411024/why-bus... [2]: http://news.mit.edu/2014/study-shows-online-courses-effective-0924 http://news.mit.edu/2014/study-shows-online-courses-effectiv... [3]: https://borgenproject.org/online-education-in-developing-countries/ https://borgenproject.org/online-education-in-developing-cou... [4]: https://www.onlinecoursereport.com/democratizing-education-online-education-and-the-developing-world/ https://www.onlinecoursereport.com/democratizing-education-o...

nradov 7y ago
Online schooling only works for motivated, disciplined students. Most children need to have a qualified teacher in the same room in order to learn effectively. That especially applies to subjects that students don't enjoy, but which they need to learn in order to function in society.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mises 7y ago
  Maybe the question we ought to be asking, then, is, "Why are our youth not motivated to study?" This seems to be true across all background, excepting one: first-generation Americans. I was certainly motivated to study, even things I didn't like. I knew it was my path to a better life. The "second-generation problem" is well-documented [0], and so the obvious question is: what can we do to inculcate that same motivation in our youth? To make them self-directed? On that, I am not sure. [0]: https://dyske.com/paper/1258 https://dyske.com/paper/1258, https://www.jstor.org/stable/2547418 https://www.jstor.org/stable/2547418
skinnymuch 7y ago
As a teen and kid I had huge self esteem and shyness issues. I’d have basically no friends (at age 18) if I did online school.

malandrew 7y ago

> if you wanted to truly solve the root causes of racial discrepancies in education you'd need reform at the elementary school level. You'd probably also have to reform family life for many individuals as well, not just elementary school. Are they from a single parent household? Do they have books at home? Do their parents read to them? Do their parents help out with homework and make sure their children are doing their homework? School is not the only aspect contributing to someone's education. Parental involvement is also a huge factor and cultural differences contribute here. See my previous comment about the importance of culture and values and their impact on success here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20810810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20810810