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A long time ago, USPS signed an insane sweetheart deal for free shipping from China, thinking that it would help US companies ship to China. But for many reason

A long time ago, USPS signed an insane sweetheart deal for free shipping from China, thinking that it would help US companies ship to China. But for many reasons (labor laws, environmental laws, go subsidies) outsidee of shipping costs, US-China post package shipping (not heavy industry whatever), is absolutely massively imbalanced. Chinese shippers massive privilege over US domestic shippers (shipping to ISo customers) was the main side effect. US shipping costs more than Chinese manufacturer + shipping, despite shipping from China being obviously more expensive in real world resources.

trhway 7y ago
>despite shipping from China being obviously more expensive in real world resources. 3 weeks container shipping on a super container ship vs. even cheapest truck shipping ?
- lonelappde 7y ago
  The Chinese shippment also has to use a truck to get from Port.
  - trhway 7y ago
    1. around half of US population (and even bigger share purchasing/consuming capacity wise) live on a coast not far from a major port. 2. container ship is 10g/tonne-km of CO2, ground truck 60g/tonne-km of CO2 3. Shanghai to LA - 10000km, Shanghai to New York - 17000km So, it is simple math that container delivery from Shanghai plus 100-200km or even more of truck delivery from the port beats any cross-US truck delivery (for the US West it beats even half-cross-US truck delivery). Of course when it comes to the math vs. ideological politics - last season of Veep was brilliant about it :)
  - hinkley 7y ago
    Do you remember that article a couple years ago about pollution at the Port in LA? They've done a bunch to reduce ship emissions in dock but the truckers are popping up on the radar. The short-haul truckers at the Port in LA are all independent owner-operators, which sounds like a cool libertarian/capitalist ideal until you figure out that new trucks are super expensive so the operators are almost exclusively buying used trucks, often quite old (and grandfathered into emissions rules). And as we all know from personal experience, there's a lot of soot that comes from a heavy diesel when it accelerates from a dead stop. And there are no large necks to wring so now you're in the awkward situation of having to go after little guys.
    - trhway 7y ago
      The short haul trucks is primary use case for going electric.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  A lot of it is actually airmail.
- compsciphd 7y ago
  container ship shipping from US to Middle East was cheaper for me than shipping my stuff from NYC to California (and similar shipment from east coast to middle east was less tha half the price of shipping from California). Boat is much cheaper than truck overall.
- bkor 7y ago
  > 3 weeks container shipping on a super container ship vs. even cheapest truck shipping ? Container shipping is ridiculously cheap. See e.g. https://www.joc.com/maritime-news/capacity-cuts-keeping-asia-europe-rates-afloat_20190415.html https://www.joc.com/maritime-news/capacity-cuts-keeping-asia.... Seems around 640 USD from Shanghai to North Europe as per above article/source. This for a 20 foot container. A lot of containers are 40 foot. US has loads of 45 foot containers. If you'd go very far inland you wouldn't use a truck though; either a barge (inland vessel) or a train.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Just FYI: EEE-class ships carry ~18000 20' equivalent containers. That's $11.5m per journey. Presumably they make a profit on the journey to N. Europe, and take a loss on the return.
Scoundreller 7y ago
The USPS signed an agreement for ePacket, but most of the packages are being shipped under UPU rules that most countries in the world are signatories to. USPS fares better under ePacket packages than the UPU tarifed packages.

trhway 7y ago

>despite shipping from China being obviously more expensive in real world resources. 3 weeks container shipping on a super container ship vs. even cheapest truck shipping ?

lonelappde 7y ago
The Chinese shippment also has to use a truck to get from Port.
- trhway 7y ago
  1. around half of US population (and even bigger share purchasing/consuming capacity wise) live on a coast not far from a major port. 2. container ship is 10g/tonne-km of CO2, ground truck 60g/tonne-km of CO2 3. Shanghai to LA - 10000km, Shanghai to New York - 17000km So, it is simple math that container delivery from Shanghai plus 100-200km or even more of truck delivery from the port beats any cross-US truck delivery (for the US West it beats even half-cross-US truck delivery). Of course when it comes to the math vs. ideological politics - last season of Veep was brilliant about it :)
- hinkley 7y ago
  Do you remember that article a couple years ago about pollution at the Port in LA? They've done a bunch to reduce ship emissions in dock but the truckers are popping up on the radar. The short-haul truckers at the Port in LA are all independent owner-operators, which sounds like a cool libertarian/capitalist ideal until you figure out that new trucks are super expensive so the operators are almost exclusively buying used trucks, often quite old (and grandfathered into emissions rules). And as we all know from personal experience, there's a lot of soot that comes from a heavy diesel when it accelerates from a dead stop. And there are no large necks to wring so now you're in the awkward situation of having to go after little guys.
  - trhway 7y ago
    The short haul trucks is primary use case for going electric.
Scoundreller 7y ago
A lot of it is actually airmail.
compsciphd 7y ago
container ship shipping from US to Middle East was cheaper for me than shipping my stuff from NYC to California (and similar shipment from east coast to middle east was less tha half the price of shipping from California). Boat is much cheaper than truck overall.
bkor 7y ago
> 3 weeks container shipping on a super container ship vs. even cheapest truck shipping ? Container shipping is ridiculously cheap. See e.g. https://www.joc.com/maritime-news/capacity-cuts-keeping-asia-europe-rates-afloat_20190415.html https://www.joc.com/maritime-news/capacity-cuts-keeping-asia.... Seems around 640 USD from Shanghai to North Europe as per above article/source. This for a 20 foot container. A lot of containers are 40 foot. US has loads of 45 foot containers. If you'd go very far inland you wouldn't use a truck though; either a barge (inland vessel) or a train.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Just FYI: EEE-class ships carry ~18000 20' equivalent containers. That's $11.5m per journey. Presumably they make a profit on the journey to N. Europe, and take a loss on the return.

Scoundreller 7y ago

The USPS signed an agreement for ePacket, but most of the packages are being shipped under UPU rules that most countries in the world are signatories to. USPS fares better under ePacket packages than the UPU tarifed packages.