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What would be the concession from the Chinese? Or do they up the ante and impose more tariffs on incoming U.S. goods? Is this something that the Hacker News c

by aantix 7y ago

What would be the concession from the Chinese? Or do they up the ante and impose more tariffs on incoming U.S. goods? Is this something that the Hacker News community actually supports Trump on? More curious than anything - you just don't see a lot of support for any of his initiatives here. ? Why all the downvotes?

Zigurd 7y ago
The resolution should be restoration of reciprocity, like having China Post insist on commercial shippers having customs clearance arranged. Other trade war elements like getting out of TPP and bellicosity in general have cost vastly more than the value of stopping drop-shipping Chinese eBay sellers, which is negligible in US China trade.
- MrMorden 7y ago
  The US withdrawing from TPP directly resulted in a vastly-improved treaty. The problem is that the US didn't sign up to the new version.
  - Zigurd 7y ago
    That's not what I have seen in any description of TPP. It appears that withdrawing from it is pure vandalism of US interests that we now see in the trade war with China, happening outside the framework of TPP.
    - MrMorden 7y ago
      TPP instantly lost the bulk of the intellectual property chapter and a good amount of ISDS-related commitments when the US withdrew. Is there anything in the CPTPP signed version that's worse than the version the US wanted?
orthecreedence 7y ago
I support this, and I'm a rabid leftist. Things should cost what they cost. The only time government should interfere with pricing is to force companies to price in externalities.
- daveslash 7y ago
  "I'm a rabid leftist". I appreciate your candor, but if you think "things should cost what they cost", then you're not nearly as rabid as many of the rabid leftists that I've encountered.
  - scoobyyabbadoo 7y ago
    I think what is left and right have been evolving since the 60s. Leftism is being fought over now between anarcho-capitalists vs labor while the right is being fought over between big business vs nationalists.
    - kazinator 7y ago
      What is left and right has been misunderstood in evolving ways since the 60's anti-intellectualism set in.
      - jfengel 7y ago
        "Left" and "right" have been pretty arbitrary ever since the French Estates General set up their seating plan with monarchists on the right and republicans on the left. That fight, like all fights before and since, was really divided along multiple axes with overlapping but not identical motivations. I don't think there's a single thing to be misunderstood, so much as a rough analogy between many different kinds of political battles. Anti-intellectualism does seem to present a kind of newish element to that fight, though I suspect it's always been present in various guises. (I will say that I'm particularly unhappy with the version of it that has dominated for the past 30 years or so.)
        7y ago
jplayer01 7y ago
> What would be the concession from the Chinese? What concession? It's a clear market distortion that shipping rates across such distances are so ridiculously low. I'm not sure why anybody is supporting them. This isn't about Trump or not Trump, and always putting these issues in these terms is incredibly distracting from what's actually important. (And I say this as somebody who absolutely despises Trump.)
- entropea 7y ago
  >What concession? It's a clear market distortion that shipping rates across such distances are so ridiculously low. I'm not sure why anybody is supporting them. Come on, everyone supports ridiculously low costs on anything.
  - avar 7y ago
    You can't just mandate low costs by fiat. That's why it causes market distortion. You could also say mandate that say breakfast at a hotel should cost no more than $1. You'd get that, but you'd also pay for it via rising hotel prices that would need to subsidize that benefit some enjoy with a higher room fee that everyone would pay for. In this case lower shipping rates for some are subsidized with higher shipping rates for others, or in some other countries with the same problem corresponding state subsidies for the postal service paid for out of the general state budget.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  We don't know that they're below cost. Maybe the market distortion is that internal mail is so expensive. EDIT: whoops, untrue as below. Disregard this.
  - throwaway2048 7y ago
    We absolutely do know this, the UPU (universal postal union) has a mandate to subsidize mail rates from nations that are termed developing under its rules, like China.
viraptor 7y ago
There's a difference between agreeing on the idea, the execution, and supporting a person who says that idea. (and the story they try to sell with that idea) A lot of people likely agree the imbalance was hurting us businesses. But fewer agree with how it was done, or want to support Trump.
rc_kas 7y ago
99% of what Trump does is very stupid. This is the 1% of his actions that is not stupid.

by aantix 7y ago

Zigurd 7y ago

The resolution should be restoration of reciprocity, like having China Post insist on commercial shippers having customs clearance arranged. Other trade war elements like getting out of TPP and bellicosity in general have cost vastly more than the value of stopping drop-shipping Chinese eBay sellers, which is negligible in US China trade.

MrMorden 7y ago
The US withdrawing from TPP directly resulted in a vastly-improved treaty. The problem is that the US didn't sign up to the new version.
- Zigurd 7y ago
  That's not what I have seen in any description of TPP. It appears that withdrawing from it is pure vandalism of US interests that we now see in the trade war with China, happening outside the framework of TPP.
  - MrMorden 7y ago
    TPP instantly lost the bulk of the intellectual property chapter and a good amount of ISDS-related commitments when the US withdrew. Is there anything in the CPTPP signed version that's worse than the version the US wanted?

orthecreedence 7y ago

I support this, and I'm a rabid leftist. Things should cost what they cost. The only time government should interfere with pricing is to force companies to price in externalities.

daveslash 7y ago
"I'm a rabid leftist". I appreciate your candor, but if you think "things should cost what they cost", then you're not nearly as rabid as many of the rabid leftists that I've encountered.
- scoobyyabbadoo 7y ago
  I think what is left and right have been evolving since the 60s. Leftism is being fought over now between anarcho-capitalists vs labor while the right is being fought over between big business vs nationalists.
  - kazinator 7y ago
    What is left and right has been misunderstood in evolving ways since the 60's anti-intellectualism set in.
    - jfengel 7y ago
      "Left" and "right" have been pretty arbitrary ever since the French Estates General set up their seating plan with monarchists on the right and republicans on the left. That fight, like all fights before and since, was really divided along multiple axes with overlapping but not identical motivations. I don't think there's a single thing to be misunderstood, so much as a rough analogy between many different kinds of political battles. Anti-intellectualism does seem to present a kind of newish element to that fight, though I suspect it's always been present in various guises. (I will say that I'm particularly unhappy with the version of it that has dominated for the past 30 years or so.)
      - 7y ago

jplayer01 7y ago

> What would be the concession from the Chinese? What concession? It's a clear market distortion that shipping rates across such distances are so ridiculously low. I'm not sure why anybody is supporting them. This isn't about Trump or not Trump, and always putting these issues in these terms is incredibly distracting from what's actually important. (And I say this as somebody who absolutely despises Trump.)

entropea 7y ago
>What concession? It's a clear market distortion that shipping rates across such distances are so ridiculously low. I'm not sure why anybody is supporting them. Come on, everyone supports ridiculously low costs on anything.
- avar 7y ago
  You can't just mandate low costs by fiat. That's why it causes market distortion. You could also say mandate that say breakfast at a hotel should cost no more than $1. You'd get that, but you'd also pay for it via rising hotel prices that would need to subsidize that benefit some enjoy with a higher room fee that everyone would pay for. In this case lower shipping rates for some are subsidized with higher shipping rates for others, or in some other countries with the same problem corresponding state subsidies for the postal service paid for out of the general state budget.
scarejunba 7y ago
We don't know that they're below cost. Maybe the market distortion is that internal mail is so expensive. EDIT: whoops, untrue as below. Disregard this.
- throwaway2048 7y ago
  We absolutely do know this, the UPU (universal postal union) has a mandate to subsidize mail rates from nations that are termed developing under its rules, like China.

viraptor 7y ago

There's a difference between agreeing on the idea, the execution, and supporting a person who says that idea. (and the story they try to sell with that idea) A lot of people likely agree the imbalance was hurting us businesses. But fewer agree with how it was done, or want to support Trump.

rc_kas 7y ago

99% of what Trump does is very stupid. This is the 1% of his actions that is not stupid.