6 ms·

This is less of an option when hardware makers fuse everything in to a single board so when one thing breaks you need a new main board which costs as much as th

This is less of an option when hardware makers fuse everything in to a single board so when one thing breaks you need a new main board which costs as much as the whole device. I have had a surprising amount of luck with some items though. Managed to replace the shoulder buttons on my 3ds by finding a replica of the button + ribbon cable + connector used.

marpstar 7y ago
This is the #1 reason I bought the absolute cheapest washer/dryer combo I could find. My last set was purchased at a garage sale and I kept them running for ~10 years by purchasing the necessary replacement parts from eBay, maybe $40 over those 10 years. I can't do that for everything, but I will for washers and dryers. My "new" dryer has already failed once and I repaired it in 20 minutes with a $4 part.
- ptaipale 7y ago
  I really like my microwave oven that has just two controls: one dial for power (scale defrost - full power) and one for time (mechanical clock up to 30 min). It is not likely to break because there is no PCB with bad capacitors. It does not have a clock that I would need to adjust at every DST change, and it does not have an array of confusing buttons and controls. Everyone can use it, without reading the manual. And it cost me €39, including 24 % VAT.
  - sergiosgc 7y ago
    There is an "Apple" market for the first company that designs a simple microwave oven. The user interface on most of those things is atrocious. A beautiful oven with two dials would kill on the market. (maybe there is one, but I couldn't find one browsing on appliance stores)
    - vonseel 7y ago
      _A beautiful oven with two dials would kill on the market. (maybe there is one, but I couldn't find one browsing on appliance stores)_ Aren't you commenting on a guy claiming to love his two dial microwave oven?
      - ptaipale 7y ago
        Exactly. I must admit that the 39 € oven isn't "beautiful" in terms of artistic design and implementation; it is merely practical and not an eyesore. It is made cheaply, so now after 5 years of use, the paint has chipped in some places where it has been cracked by hitting it with dishes, etc. However, functionally it is just what I want. It could be improved by making the design smoother so that it would be easier to clean the inside when my microwave meal happens to explode. The good thing is also that it's still on the market, so if this unit breaks, I'll just buy another one. (Perhaps I should buy one to storage, just in case they stop making/selling this thing).
        magashna 7y ago
        Who's asking for a beautiful microwave? It's a microwave. You put old food in it for 30 seconds and then eat it as fast as possible before it gets rubbery. No beauty there.
        ptaipale 7y ago
        Well, many people spend thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars or euros to make their kitchen look nice (even if they don't use it very much). Quality is of course always also subjective and dependent on needs. For instance, this cheap and nice microwave that I have is also very light. That's good because no material is wasted in manufacture, and it is easier to transport and install, but it means that if I slam the door, the unit will actually move on the kitchen desk. I'd like it to stay put.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      >A beautiful oven with two dials would kill on the market. And it did, in the 1970s https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/1971rr4.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/1971rr4....
      - close04 7y ago
        I bought something that looked like this (maybe not this exact model but certainly same family) in early 2000s: https://www.bedienungsanleitungonline.de/bildern/product_521.jpg https://www.bedienungsanleitungonline.de/bildern/product_521... Still running as my only microwave although I don't use it for much, other than warming the occasional cup of water for a tea. Last Christmas I rented a cabin for vacation. The MW had more buttons than my TV remote control. Icons and button placement were completely not intuitive. I am convinced that this is done just because more buttons suggests more functions and more advanced product. Everyone else is doing it so they all slap them on to compete. You get 4 buttons and an LCD to do what a rotary dial did.
    - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
      I had exactly what you described, an older model from LG with 2 digital knobs. It was amazingly intuitive and I loved it. Not sure if they make it anymore as now everything has to be touch to be cool in the showroom. My parents bought new kitchen appliances from Bosch and I was shocked how bad the UX was with the combination of touch buttons, rotating dial and full color LCD display. I just want to roast this chicken FFS! Why does it have to be a 12 step process?!
    - jeffreygoesto 7y ago
      ACK. happy with this one since 2013: https://ellis.fyi/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Samsung-Microwave.jpg https://ellis.fyi/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Samsung-Microwa...
      - sergiosgc 7y ago
        Nice! That's the kind of thing I was looking for.
    - frosted-flakes 7y ago
      This already exists. It's called the LG NeoChef[1], and it's an absolute joy to use compared to anything else I've seen. It has three controls on the front: stop/clear, start/+30sec, and a touch slider that lets you accurately set any time from 10 seconds to an hour. The slider actually works very well, and is super kid-friendly. Here's an image: https://www.lg.com/ca_en/images/microwave-ovens/MD05821693/gallery/medium04.jpg https://www.lg.com/ca_en/images/microwave-ovens/MD05821693/g... If you open the door, there are 11 more buttons for setting the power level or starting a timer, etc. The only preset button it has is popcorn, which is the only useful one. Notably, it does not have a number pad, only plus/minus buttons. Image: https://www.lg.com/ca_en/images/microwave-ovens/MD05821693/gallery/medium05.jpg https://www.lg.com/ca_en/images/microwave-ovens/MD05821693/g... It also has an internal LED light that shines down from above instead of a crappy incandescent light that shines from the side (and is inevitably burnt out). Oh, and it doesn't have loud, irritating beeps from a piezoelectric beeper that wakes up the entire house when you're reheating your 2am snack. It has an actual speaker instead, and the touch tones are soft and the "done" alert is melodious and stops when you open the door (there's an actual handle, instead of a spring-loaded button). [1] https://www.lg.com/ca_en/microwave-ovens/lg-LMC0975ST https://www.lg.com/ca_en/microwave-ovens/lg-LMC0975ST
kllrnohj 7y ago
> This is less of an option when hardware makers fuse everything in to a single board so when one thing breaks you need a new main board which costs as much as the whole device. Depends on your soldering iron handiwork. If we're talking something large like a switch or a power socket it's usually pretty easy to replace it as it's still through-hole. Fixed some blown caps on an old LCD monitor earlier this year doing exactly that. It's not that hard if it's big.
taneq 7y ago
> hardware makers fuse everything in to a single board so when one thing breaks you need a new main board which costs as much as the whole device As frustrating as this is, it's a natural consequence of the monolithic system integration which means that the whole device now costs barely more than the mainboard. Repair hasn't become more expensive, new things have just become unbelievably cheap.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  > Repair hasn't become more expensive, new things have just become unbelievably cheap. You don't think it's both?
  - taneq 7y ago
    Fair call, it's both. Someone skilled enough to repair a high-tech item is often also skilled enough to design one, and economies of scale mean that these people are now paid much more than they used to be, while the per-unit cost of the item has tumbled.
    - baroffoos 7y ago
      It is that but its more. To replace my battery in my samsung s5 I just had to pop the back cover off with my fingernail and pull the old battery out. Now with modern phones I am sitting there with a hair dryer and suction caps trying to pry the phone apart for an hour so I can then remove 20 screws and 3 ribbon cables all in the right order so I can then start hair drying again to unstick the battery.
gnopgnip 7y ago
What is the alternative, a vacuum that has 3000 individual components now and they are still not user replaceable?
- jdnenej 7y ago
  Yes, this is much better because you can bring the device to someone with experience who can quickly and cheaply swap out the part.
- Faark 7y ago
  A good start would be to open up more access to plans & documentation to make it easier for interested people to do so. Better access to replacement parts is another demand you often hear around the "right to repair" movement.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Even with just full documentation available, people (hobbyists, repair shops) could replace original parts with generic alternatives that match the spec electrically. The result wouldn't be as pretty as the original, but it would work (and gave some street cred valued by people who prefer reuse and repair to generating waste).
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  "Not user serviceable" is an evil concept that needs to die. And as 'jdnenej points out, and the thing that "right to repair" movement is all about: nobody says you have to do the repair yourself. Having serviceable devices means your technically skilled friend, or your local repair shop, can do the repair. Possibly charging you money from it. As a side effect, this strengthens local economies.
_pmf_ 7y ago
The Nintendo Switch is also quite accessible; but Nintendo might be the outlier here.
jandrese 7y ago
Funny you should mention this. I just bought a microUSB connector off of eBay to attempt to fix my kids Kindle Fire. It's a $2.50 part but replacing it is a roll of the dice with my skill level. On the other hand, it's a $60 tablet so it's not like I can bring it to someone to have it fixed professionally and not end up paying more than it would cost to just buy a new one. I figure I can't break it any worse than it already is (impossible to charge, impossible to use), so it's a gamble that I'll be able to fix it cheaply.

marpstar 7y ago

This is the #1 reason I bought the absolute cheapest washer/dryer combo I could find. My last set was purchased at a garage sale and I kept them running for ~10 years by purchasing the necessary replacement parts from eBay, maybe $40 over those 10 years. I can't do that for everything, but I will for washers and dryers. My "new" dryer has already failed once and I repaired it in 20 minutes with a $4 part.

ptaipale 7y ago
I really like my microwave oven that has just two controls: one dial for power (scale defrost - full power) and one for time (mechanical clock up to 30 min). It is not likely to break because there is no PCB with bad capacitors. It does not have a clock that I would need to adjust at every DST change, and it does not have an array of confusing buttons and controls. Everyone can use it, without reading the manual. And it cost me €39, including 24 % VAT.
- sergiosgc 7y ago
  There is an "Apple" market for the first company that designs a simple microwave oven. The user interface on most of those things is atrocious. A beautiful oven with two dials would kill on the market. (maybe there is one, but I couldn't find one browsing on appliance stores)
  - vonseel 7y ago
    _A beautiful oven with two dials would kill on the market. (maybe there is one, but I couldn't find one browsing on appliance stores)_ Aren't you commenting on a guy claiming to love his two dial microwave oven?
    - ptaipale 7y ago
      Exactly. I must admit that the 39 € oven isn't "beautiful" in terms of artistic design and implementation; it is merely practical and not an eyesore. It is made cheaply, so now after 5 years of use, the paint has chipped in some places where it has been cracked by hitting it with dishes, etc. However, functionally it is just what I want. It could be improved by making the design smoother so that it would be easier to clean the inside when my microwave meal happens to explode. The good thing is also that it's still on the market, so if this unit breaks, I'll just buy another one. (Perhaps I should buy one to storage, just in case they stop making/selling this thing).
      - magashna 7y ago
        Who's asking for a beautiful microwave? It's a microwave. You put old food in it for 30 seconds and then eat it as fast as possible before it gets rubbery. No beauty there.
        ptaipale 7y ago
        Well, many people spend thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars or euros to make their kitchen look nice (even if they don't use it very much). Quality is of course always also subjective and dependent on needs. For instance, this cheap and nice microwave that I have is also very light. That's good because no material is wasted in manufacture, and it is easier to transport and install, but it means that if I slam the door, the unit will actually move on the kitchen desk. I'd like it to stay put.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    >A beautiful oven with two dials would kill on the market. And it did, in the 1970s https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/1971rr4.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/1971rr4....
    - close04 7y ago
      I bought something that looked like this (maybe not this exact model but certainly same family) in early 2000s: https://www.bedienungsanleitungonline.de/bildern/product_521.jpg https://www.bedienungsanleitungonline.de/bildern/product_521... Still running as my only microwave although I don't use it for much, other than warming the occasional cup of water for a tea. Last Christmas I rented a cabin for vacation. The MW had more buttons than my TV remote control. Icons and button placement were completely not intuitive. I am convinced that this is done just because more buttons suggests more functions and more advanced product. Everyone else is doing it so they all slap them on to compete. You get 4 buttons and an LCD to do what a rotary dial did.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    I had exactly what you described, an older model from LG with 2 digital knobs. It was amazingly intuitive and I loved it. Not sure if they make it anymore as now everything has to be touch to be cool in the showroom. My parents bought new kitchen appliances from Bosch and I was shocked how bad the UX was with the combination of touch buttons, rotating dial and full color LCD display. I just want to roast this chicken FFS! Why does it have to be a 12 step process?!
  - jeffreygoesto 7y ago
    ACK. happy with this one since 2013: https://ellis.fyi/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Samsung-Microwave.jpg https://ellis.fyi/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Samsung-Microwa...
    - sergiosgc 7y ago
      Nice! That's the kind of thing I was looking for.
  - frosted-flakes 7y ago
    This already exists. It's called the LG NeoChef[1], and it's an absolute joy to use compared to anything else I've seen. It has three controls on the front: stop/clear, start/+30sec, and a touch slider that lets you accurately set any time from 10 seconds to an hour. The slider actually works very well, and is super kid-friendly. Here's an image: https://www.lg.com/ca_en/images/microwave-ovens/MD05821693/gallery/medium04.jpg https://www.lg.com/ca_en/images/microwave-ovens/MD05821693/g... If you open the door, there are 11 more buttons for setting the power level or starting a timer, etc. The only preset button it has is popcorn, which is the only useful one. Notably, it does not have a number pad, only plus/minus buttons. Image: https://www.lg.com/ca_en/images/microwave-ovens/MD05821693/gallery/medium05.jpg https://www.lg.com/ca_en/images/microwave-ovens/MD05821693/g... It also has an internal LED light that shines down from above instead of a crappy incandescent light that shines from the side (and is inevitably burnt out). Oh, and it doesn't have loud, irritating beeps from a piezoelectric beeper that wakes up the entire house when you're reheating your 2am snack. It has an actual speaker instead, and the touch tones are soft and the "done" alert is melodious and stops when you open the door (there's an actual handle, instead of a spring-loaded button). [1] https://www.lg.com/ca_en/microwave-ovens/lg-LMC0975ST https://www.lg.com/ca_en/microwave-ovens/lg-LMC0975ST

kllrnohj 7y ago

> This is less of an option when hardware makers fuse everything in to a single board so when one thing breaks you need a new main board which costs as much as the whole device. Depends on your soldering iron handiwork. If we're talking something large like a switch or a power socket it's usually pretty easy to replace it as it's still through-hole. Fixed some blown caps on an old LCD monitor earlier this year doing exactly that. It's not that hard if it's big.

taneq 7y ago

> hardware makers fuse everything in to a single board so when one thing breaks you need a new main board which costs as much as the whole device As frustrating as this is, it's a natural consequence of the monolithic system integration which means that the whole device now costs barely more than the mainboard. Repair hasn't become more expensive, new things have just become unbelievably cheap.

Dylan16807 7y ago
> Repair hasn't become more expensive, new things have just become unbelievably cheap. You don't think it's both?
- taneq 7y ago
  Fair call, it's both. Someone skilled enough to repair a high-tech item is often also skilled enough to design one, and economies of scale mean that these people are now paid much more than they used to be, while the per-unit cost of the item has tumbled.
  - baroffoos 7y ago
    It is that but its more. To replace my battery in my samsung s5 I just had to pop the back cover off with my fingernail and pull the old battery out. Now with modern phones I am sitting there with a hair dryer and suction caps trying to pry the phone apart for an hour so I can then remove 20 screws and 3 ribbon cables all in the right order so I can then start hair drying again to unstick the battery.

gnopgnip 7y ago

What is the alternative, a vacuum that has 3000 individual components now and they are still not user replaceable?

jdnenej 7y ago
Yes, this is much better because you can bring the device to someone with experience who can quickly and cheaply swap out the part.
Faark 7y ago
A good start would be to open up more access to plans & documentation to make it easier for interested people to do so. Better access to replacement parts is another demand you often hear around the "right to repair" movement.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Even with just full documentation available, people (hobbyists, repair shops) could replace original parts with generic alternatives that match the spec electrically. The result wouldn't be as pretty as the original, but it would work (and gave some street cred valued by people who prefer reuse and repair to generating waste).
TeMPOraL 7y ago
"Not user serviceable" is an evil concept that needs to die. And as 'jdnenej points out, and the thing that "right to repair" movement is all about: nobody says you have to do the repair yourself. Having serviceable devices means your technically skilled friend, or your local repair shop, can do the repair. Possibly charging you money from it. As a side effect, this strengthens local economies.

_pmf_ 7y ago

The Nintendo Switch is also quite accessible; but Nintendo might be the outlier here.

jandrese 7y ago

Funny you should mention this. I just bought a microUSB connector off of eBay to attempt to fix my kids Kindle Fire. It's a $2.50 part but replacing it is a roll of the dice with my skill level. On the other hand, it's a $60 tablet so it's not like I can bring it to someone to have it fixed professionally and not end up paying more than it would cost to just buy a new one. I figure I can't break it any worse than it already is (impossible to charge, impossible to use), so it's a gamble that I'll be able to fix it cheaply.