4 ms·

Anyone that's self-hosting email care to explain why they're doing it? Seems like something that makes no sense to do internally until you start getting more "

Anyone that's self-hosting email care to explain why they're doing it? Seems like something that makes no sense to do internally until you start getting more "enterprisey".

onteria 16y ago
I don't personally host my own email, but I can see it from the perspective of data control. If you use Google Apps for example, your email exists on their servers. I personally don't mind that, but others may not be so welcoming. Also if you want a more detailed email setup with regards to routing and filters, it may be difficult / costly in finding a provider.
lisper 16y ago
I'm not affiliated with a YC company, but I do self-host my email. My reasons: 1. I'm a control freak and a privacy freak. I don't trust any third party with my email. I want to know how things work under the hood. And if I want to make a change, I don't want to have to depend on any third party to do it. 2. It's not hard to do. apt-get install postfix and dovecot, invest a couple of hours munging config files, and you're done. 3. Much easier to transition your data if you do get "enterprisey." All your data is on your server, so you can just tar it up and ship it anywhere. 4. You can configure the server so that insecure connections are not possible, making it that much less likely that someone will leak a password accidentally. 5. Stealth. It's much less likely that someone will try to break into my server than into Google's servers.
- maukdaddy 16y ago
  2. It's not hard to do. apt-get install postfix and dovecot, invest a couple of hours munging config files, and you're done Bullshit. There's troubleshooting when things go wrong, patching, maintenance, etc. edit: don't forget adding additional storage, managing spam and malware filtering, user admin, backups, and other tasks. 5. Stealth. It's much less likely that someone will try to break into my server than into Google's servers. You wish. Your single server is much easier to target and break into than Google's.
  - seiji 16y ago
    With Google email hosting you just have to worry about a few hundred people who can read all your email, their data retention policies, and who can subpoena your private communications. (conspiracy theory: Google gives the public one text box on a webpage to search the Internet. Do you think they don't have a text box on an internal webpage to search all of Gmail? Do you think facebook doesn't have one internal webpage capable of searching all private communications? Facebook used to advertise "spy on your friends!" as an employment perk.)
    - davidw 16y ago
      > Do you think they don't have a text box on an internal webpage to search all of Gmail? That kind of thing would leak out sooner or later.
      - jacquesm 16y ago
        Google had a rogue sysadmin that was apparently able to access user data with ease a short time ago. It might not be as easy as a textbox to search all of Gmail but your gmail data store appears to be wide open to a fairly large number of google employees.
    - maukdaddy 16y ago
      and who can subpoena your private communications. Hate to break it to you, but that same subpoena can just as easily allow your house, office, or datacenter to be raided. Your data is just as susceptible to lawful intercept at Google as it is your private premises.
      - mike-cardwell 16y ago
        When self hosting, you can make sure that deleted email has actually been deleted. You have control over how long logs are kept. You have control over whether or not to use encrypted filesystems.
      - lambda 16y ago
- staunch 16y ago
  #4 Google Apps lets you require SSL.
- haribilalic 16y ago
  5. Stealth. It's much less likely that someone will try to break into my server than into Google's servers. It's more likely that someone will break into your server than Google's, isn't it? A thing I learnt while running my own server was that all you needed to be a victim of automated attacks was to have an IP address.
  - modoc 16y ago
    Indeed, however if you're running your own server(s) then firewalls/monitoring/IDS/etc... need to be part of your typical setup anyhow. I wouldn't suggest someone who doesn't admin their own servers to get a server for running mail on, but if you manage/secure/backup servers for other stuff, mail is pretty easy to do.
  - daleharvey 16y ago
    automated attacks are easier to prevent, whereas dedicated attacks are harder, and google are much more likely to be the victim of a dedicated attack
    - smallblacksun 16y ago
      Google also has a whole team of people whose only job is to stop attacks.
  - bhousel 16y ago
    I self-host my mail too, because I've been doing it for years and I really like having absolute control over what ends up in my Inbox. True, it is probably easier for someone to break into my Linode than a Google server. However I think it's probably even easier for someone to break into my Google account. The surface area of a Google account is huge nowadays..
- mike-cardwell 16y ago
  One of the main benefits of self hosting is the MTA logs. When self hosting, you know if the message has got as far as the recipients mail server, and you know if the recipients server has attempted to deliver mail to you. You also have ultimate control over the spam filtering, which I find very important.
- driverdan 16y ago
  > 1. I'm a control freak and a privacy freak. I don't trust any third party with my email. I want to know how things work under the hood. And if I want to make a change, I don't want to have to depend on any third party to do it. Email should be considered public. Unless you're using encryption it's sent in plaintext and could easily be stored on any server it goes through. While it may be harder for the gov to get access to it a clever hacker or employee can still get it. > 5. Stealth. It's much less likely that someone will try to break into my server than into Google's servers. Security by obscurity is not security at all.
- xpaulbettsx 16y ago
  My biggest problem when I self-hosted my mail is that when my server did something strange, I was losing Emails being sent to me.
- pbreit 16y ago
  Startups should spend energy on thngs that matter, not email.
there 16y ago
i've hosted my own e-mail for over 10 years and provide imap hosting to my customers. my main reason for doing it is having control over my own data, backups, and logs. my customers use it because they don't need an exchange server (my servers do caldav for calendar sharing) and don't trust google. i do complex server-side filtering with procmail to keep my inbox clean (so all of my devices polling my mailbox will only alert me when something important comes through), automatically archive all email in an "allmail" backup folder, and do things like rewrite e-mail headers for certain conditions.
gaiusparx 16y ago
I have to agree there is no such a need when you just started. Just go over to Google Apps and its done. Unless your service is build around or require email such as Posterous.
felix0702 16y ago
One possible reason is that Google can be a potential competitor, buyer or in an event which leaking email information to Google might jeopardize company's growth.

Anyone that's self-hosting email care to explain why they're doing it? Seems like something that makes no sense to do internally until you start getting more "enterprisey".

onteria 16y ago

I don't personally host my own email, but I can see it from the perspective of data control. If you use Google Apps for example, your email exists on their servers. I personally don't mind that, but others may not be so welcoming. Also if you want a more detailed email setup with regards to routing and filters, it may be difficult / costly in finding a provider.

lisper 16y ago

I'm not affiliated with a YC company, but I do self-host my email. My reasons: 1. I'm a control freak and a privacy freak. I don't trust any third party with my email. I want to know how things work under the hood. And if I want to make a change, I don't want to have to depend on any third party to do it. 2. It's not hard to do. apt-get install postfix and dovecot, invest a couple of hours munging config files, and you're done. 3. Much easier to transition your data if you do get "enterprisey." All your data is on your server, so you can just tar it up and ship it anywhere. 4. You can configure the server so that insecure connections are not possible, making it that much less likely that someone will leak a password accidentally. 5. Stealth. It's much less likely that someone will try to break into my server than into Google's servers.

maukdaddy 16y ago
2. It's not hard to do. apt-get install postfix and dovecot, invest a couple of hours munging config files, and you're done Bullshit. There's troubleshooting when things go wrong, patching, maintenance, etc. edit: don't forget adding additional storage, managing spam and malware filtering, user admin, backups, and other tasks. 5. Stealth. It's much less likely that someone will try to break into my server than into Google's servers. You wish. Your single server is much easier to target and break into than Google's.
- seiji 16y ago
  With Google email hosting you just have to worry about a few hundred people who can read all your email, their data retention policies, and who can subpoena your private communications. (conspiracy theory: Google gives the public one text box on a webpage to search the Internet. Do you think they don't have a text box on an internal webpage to search all of Gmail? Do you think facebook doesn't have one internal webpage capable of searching all private communications? Facebook used to advertise "spy on your friends!" as an employment perk.)
  - davidw 16y ago
    > Do you think they don't have a text box on an internal webpage to search all of Gmail? That kind of thing would leak out sooner or later.
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      Google had a rogue sysadmin that was apparently able to access user data with ease a short time ago. It might not be as easy as a textbox to search all of Gmail but your gmail data store appears to be wide open to a fairly large number of google employees.
  - maukdaddy 16y ago
    and who can subpoena your private communications. Hate to break it to you, but that same subpoena can just as easily allow your house, office, or datacenter to be raided. Your data is just as susceptible to lawful intercept at Google as it is your private premises.
    - mike-cardwell 16y ago
      When self hosting, you can make sure that deleted email has actually been deleted. You have control over how long logs are kept. You have control over whether or not to use encrypted filesystems.
    - lambda 16y ago
staunch 16y ago
#4 Google Apps lets you require SSL.
haribilalic 16y ago
5. Stealth. It's much less likely that someone will try to break into my server than into Google's servers. It's more likely that someone will break into your server than Google's, isn't it? A thing I learnt while running my own server was that all you needed to be a victim of automated attacks was to have an IP address.
- modoc 16y ago
  Indeed, however if you're running your own server(s) then firewalls/monitoring/IDS/etc... need to be part of your typical setup anyhow. I wouldn't suggest someone who doesn't admin their own servers to get a server for running mail on, but if you manage/secure/backup servers for other stuff, mail is pretty easy to do.
- daleharvey 16y ago
  automated attacks are easier to prevent, whereas dedicated attacks are harder, and google are much more likely to be the victim of a dedicated attack
  - smallblacksun 16y ago
    Google also has a whole team of people whose only job is to stop attacks.
- bhousel 16y ago
  I self-host my mail too, because I've been doing it for years and I really like having absolute control over what ends up in my Inbox. True, it is probably easier for someone to break into my Linode than a Google server. However I think it's probably even easier for someone to break into my Google account. The surface area of a Google account is huge nowadays..
mike-cardwell 16y ago
One of the main benefits of self hosting is the MTA logs. When self hosting, you know if the message has got as far as the recipients mail server, and you know if the recipients server has attempted to deliver mail to you. You also have ultimate control over the spam filtering, which I find very important.
driverdan 16y ago
> 1. I'm a control freak and a privacy freak. I don't trust any third party with my email. I want to know how things work under the hood. And if I want to make a change, I don't want to have to depend on any third party to do it. Email should be considered public. Unless you're using encryption it's sent in plaintext and could easily be stored on any server it goes through. While it may be harder for the gov to get access to it a clever hacker or employee can still get it. > 5. Stealth. It's much less likely that someone will try to break into my server than into Google's servers. Security by obscurity is not security at all.
xpaulbettsx 16y ago
My biggest problem when I self-hosted my mail is that when my server did something strange, I was losing Emails being sent to me.
pbreit 16y ago
Startups should spend energy on thngs that matter, not email.

there 16y ago

i've hosted my own e-mail for over 10 years and provide imap hosting to my customers. my main reason for doing it is having control over my own data, backups, and logs. my customers use it because they don't need an exchange server (my servers do caldav for calendar sharing) and don't trust google. i do complex server-side filtering with procmail to keep my inbox clean (so all of my devices polling my mailbox will only alert me when something important comes through), automatically archive all email in an "allmail" backup folder, and do things like rewrite e-mail headers for certain conditions.

gaiusparx 16y ago

I have to agree there is no such a need when you just started. Just go over to Google Apps and its done. Unless your service is build around or require email such as Posterous.

felix0702 16y ago

One possible reason is that Google can be a potential competitor, buyer or in an event which leaking email information to Google might jeopardize company's growth.